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On the upside of 2017....

JJ

Immortal
Messages
32,713
. Hingano has gone backwards.
That to me is one of the worst things - we keep hearing "Foran has brought so much etc", nothing has changed except any development for Hingano has been stifled - we're not a competitive team, so why not invest in his development by sucking it up and playing him
 

Rich102

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
11,762
Yeah. 10 minutes every couple of weeks won't do anything for his development.
 

Penrose Warrior

First Grade
Messages
9,467
That to me is one of the worst things - we keep hearing "Foran has brought so much etc", nothing has changed except any development for Hingano has been stifled - we're not a competitive team, so why not invest in his development by sucking it up and playing him

Because they hedged their bets. They hoped Foran would stay, even though I would've put my house, my car, the lot on him going and he subsequently has. They very likely, in fact I think Iro has been quoted that they chased other options (TMM, whoever else) but didn't get them. Ata has seen all this going on, no doubt. It's obviously done nothing for his development and confidence. Apparently Foran was going to be a great mentor, but how is a bloke with his own problems supposed to be that? And he hasn't trained consistently anyway, and been a late omission forcing Ata to be in and out and not knowing where he's going to be. I'm surprised he re-signed, actually.

I said last week Ata HAD to be played when we were out of contention and Foran sent back to Sydney, but now with SJ out its happened naturally. I'd also like Lino to play if we're cooked for the season but it won't happen (unless Foran is injured).
 

Blair

Coach
Messages
11,204
Let's put some added heat on the fluky Panthers, stumbling Dragons and undermanned Eels with an upset win in Townsville this weekend.

I'm the most negative Nelly going around, but never during the week, building up to games (it's usually about three minutes after kick-off when 'Nelly' kicks in).

It's a long off-season.

I hope the boys do it for SJ! ;)
 

ZEROMISSTACKLES

First Grade
Messages
8,700
Ata has it tough as he plays key positions for a 'down and almost out' club. He's a youngster with no real experience who us fans are hoping can get us out of the slump and so he will have that small external pressure on top of just trying to perform at first grade level.

Based on what Ive seen from Ata I would say that he will robotically play out the game plan for all of the 80 minutes. Apparently statistics show that were completing more sets compared to last year and whilst any improvement is good, were still losing. Ata has good game management but is that enough or will that just maintain our improved set completion and loss of games.

I like to see Ata recognise the opportunity, now matter how small, to go with his gut and play off the cuff. Because were hopeless and the players outside Ata aren't really in line breaking form, Ata will have to perform to instructions. Making him look robotic and predictable. If say we were good and we're always up, Ata could try things but our situation doesn't really allow for him to show his other stuff. For the time being he will likely play out his role and if we lose, Ata may be targeted for criticism especially if his side doesn't score.

If Ata goes to the right side (Shaun side) - I wouldn't mind seeing Ata cut out RTS coming around the back and hitting Ayshford early given Aysh the option of RTS inside and the wing on the outside. Just a little break from the norm as the Fresh Prince would say. Sick of seeing SJ with the short ball to Thompson, yes it has been effective (1 out of every 3 attempts) but I hope to see Hingano put his spin on things to good result.
 
Messages
10,077
Not sure where to put this so will put it here, Monday Night with Matty Johns talking about the Warriors

"If you want to improve as a footballer, you go to Melbourne. If you want to go backwards, you go to the Warriors"

Then stated how you had a 19 year old in Cleary carrying his team and giving an international spine a bath is a telling sign

Tough to recruit people if those are the thoughts over in oz
 

ZEROMISSTACKLES

First Grade
Messages
8,700
Tough to recruit people if those are the thoughts over in oz
Yep and the Aussies keep saying that and we keep looking like the player graveyard they call us. Now when it comes to recruiting Aussie payers we gotta hope for a diamond in the rough and select rookies cos I highly doubt we'd get the creme de la creme which would be a current Kangaroo. The thing is, once we do find a diamond in the rough like James Maloney, they leave.
 

Cloudsurfer

Juniors
Messages
1,184
Not sure where to put this so will put it here, Monday Night with Matty Johns talking about the Warriors

"If you want to improve as a footballer, you go to Melbourne. If you want to go backwards, you go to the Warriors"

Then stated how you had a 19 year old in Cleary carrying his team and giving an international spine a bath is a telling sign

Tough to recruit people if those are the thoughts over in oz

How have his his beloved Knights been going the past couple of years?
 
Messages
10,077
How have his his beloved Knights been going the past couple of years?

About as well as they should be trying to recover from the Bennett/Tinkler destruction of the club

Fair to say with what they have available, Nathan Brown has them playing with as much ticker as all the other sides most weeks

Back to his statement anyway, can't really see how anyone can disagree with it when the examples of RTS, Hoffman, Foran, Luke etc are put in front of you now comaored to their peaks, and they are only the last year or 2, goes back a lot further than that
 

Cloudsurfer

Juniors
Messages
1,184
About as well as they should be trying to recover from the Bennett/Tinkler destruction of the club

Fair to say with what they have available, Nathan Brown has them playing with as much ticker as all the other sides most weeks

Back to his statement anyway, can't really see how anyone can disagree with it when the examples of RTS, Hoffman, Foran, Luke etc are put in front of you now comaored to their peaks, and they are only the last year or 2, goes back a lot further than that


Nah, he's just trotting out the commonly held perceptions like he's an authority "I tell you gentlemen...". Please...
Warriors have a lot to fix and like the Knights 2 years is early days - to make a blanket statement like that is perpetuating something that if you looked at it is wrong. Have the warriors ever 'won' the spoon? They've reached the finals series a few times & generally middle of the table over the years - they get hyped up every year & the higher you're placed the further you have to fall - perpetuating the myth further each time. And Kearney has been tarred with the same brush due to circumstances not of his making (he went to head coaching a couple of years too soon imo & to a basket case of a club). If you look at it positively the Warriors are a couple of things short of the top teams... things that are fixable but it won't happen overnight. Matty Johns should stick to what he does best (and it ain't comedy) and the warriors could do worse than to bring him in for a few sessions to help the young halves in the club...it worked a treat for Munster.
 

Penrose Warrior

First Grade
Messages
9,467
Nah, he's right. Or at least that's the opinion of most of us on here.

Notice we haven't been linked with any Australian-based players for any length of time? They don't want a bar of us. Sorry, unless they're Zac Santo. I don't even think paying overs cuts it now.
 

KeepingTheFaith

Referee
Messages
25,235
Back to his statement anyway, can't really see how anyone can disagree with it when the examples of RTS, Hoffman, Foran, Luke etc are put in front of you now comaored to their peaks, and they are only the last year or 2, goes back a lot further than that

I bag the Warriors as much as anyone, it almost pains me to defend them, but this is some bullshit.

Hoffman hasn't gone backwards because of Warriors, he's gone backwards because of age and the fact we only get decent Australian players when they're at the back end of their career.

Foran was troubled with constant injury issues. Its been a good couple of years since he was at his best.

RTS is still RTS. Makes between 150-200m a game, works his ass off. He couldn't defend when he was at the Roosters and yet somehow its the Warriors fault, he gets less opportunity with ball in hand because the Warriors attack in a very predictable way.

Luke has always been erratic. He got dropped at Souths on more than one occasion. The difference being at Souths he had Burgii, Teo etc providibg a platform so the good outweighed the bad. Not like here where the forwards plod to the 40m line.

And who are the players that show it reaches far back?

The only big name signings that come to mind are Tomkins, Price, Wiki, Mateo, Inu, Tate, Neilsen. None of them got worse outside of age slowing them down. Mateo actually had his most consistent couple of years under Cleary. Inu was Inu regardless of where he went. Tomkins was always a gamble and unknown quantity in NRL. Neilsen was just one of those players who turned to shit away from the Storm feeding him ball - not a Warriors only condition.

Outside of that nearly all our Aussie recruitment have been cheaper/fringe guys and I don't see how Maloney, Luck, Webb, Henderson, Gatis, Witt, Rovelli, McKinnon went backwards at all outside of injury.

Individuals look worse when the team is going poorly. The failure we have here is not players suddenly going backwards when they arrive but a failure of coaching/management to realise that you can't just bring in 1-2 high quality players and expect everything else to fix itself, especially when you're asking the spine to cover for a clearly inadequate bottom four forward pack.

Players don't magically devolve here, they just aren't in a team that allows them to highlight their strengths.

What Johns said was typical ignorant BS, which is pretty par for the course when it comes to Aussie media talking about the Warriora. Heaven forbid any of them dig deep enough to look at the root of the problem rather than peddling surface issues off as expertise to satisfy the need to hear their own voice.
 

JJ

Immortal
Messages
32,713
Under Anderson and Cleary it wasn't the case, that's for sure

The joint isn't healthy at the moment, that's pretty clear - for better or worse Doyle and Kearney seem to be making changes - however, some of their decisions (particularly Doyle's - Manu, Foran, Luke) have been flat out poor IMO (especially Manu's contract and the Foran situation), and Kearney's week-to-week selection consistency given the on-field performances is just weird - Hingano and CNK are expendable it would seem, whereas to my mind they should be getting the experience which will serve them well in future years
 
Messages
10,077
I bag the Warriors as much as anyone, it almost pains me to defend them, but this is some bullshit.

Hoffman hasn't gone backwards because of Warriors, he's gone backwards because of age and the fact we only get decent Australian players when they're at the back end of their career.

Foran was troubled with constant injury issues. Its been a good couple of years since he was at his best.

RTS is still RTS. Makes between 150-200m a game, works his ass off. He couldn't defend when he was at the Roosters and yet somehow its the Warriors fault, he gets less opportunity with ball in hand because the Warriors attack in a very predictable way.

Luke has always been erratic. He got dropped at Souths on more than one occasion. The difference being at Souths he had Burgii, Teo etc providibg a platform so the good outweighed the bad. Not like here where the forwards plod to the 40m line.

And who are the players that show it reaches far back?

The only big name signings that come to mind are Tomkins, Price, Wiki, Mateo, Inu, Tate, Neilsen. None of them got worse outside of age slowing them down. Mateo actually had his most consistent couple of years under Cleary. Inu was Inu regardless of where he went. Tomkins was always a gamble and unknown quantity in NRL. Neilsen was just one of those players who turned to shit away from the Storm feeding him ball - not a Warriors only condition.

Outside of that nearly all our Aussie recruitment have been cheaper/fringe guys and I don't see how Maloney, Luck, Webb, Henderson, Gatis, Witt, Rovelli, McKinnon went backwards at all outside of injury.

Individuals look worse when the team is going poorly. The failure we have here is not players suddenly going backwards when they arrive but a failure of coaching/management to realise that you can't just bring in 1-2 high quality players and expect everything else to fix itself, especially when you're asking the spine to cover for a clearly inadequate bottom four forward pack.

Players don't magically devolve here, they just aren't in a team that allows them to highlight their strengths.

What Johns said was typical ignorant BS, which is pretty par for the course when it comes to Aussie media talking about the Warriora. Heaven forbid any of them dig deep enough to look at the root of the problem rather than peddling surface issues off as expertise to satisfy the need to hear their own voice.

Fair points mate

A couple of others than spring to mind for me were Townsend and Bukuya, Bukuya especially. Looked great at the Sharks, terrible at the Warriors, then back to the Sharks again

Guess at the end of the day, the other question is who comes to the Warriors and improves ? Maloney probably, who has gone up another level as well since then
 
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