Onions evolution, soon it will be League

[imported_Mystery Man]

Fair enough, we'll disagree. I was answering a question for Canadian Steve, so it's probably good for him to see two different sides to the argument.

 

[G@v]

If falling correctly is more important in union than in League, why do top League clubs employ wrestling coaches in order to give RL players more of a chance of not being turned over in the tackle? Do top RU clubs use wrestling as part of their training schedule?

 

[CanadianSteve]

" I was answering a question for Canadian Steve, so it's probably good for him to see two different sides to the argument."
Very good. Thanks guys.
I hadn't heard of the wrestling coaches before. Imagine what the ARL supporters who call league thugby would say about that.

 

[imported_Mystery Man]

Gav, it has always seemed to me that union players go straight to ground, in order to form a ruck and maintain possession. Whether or not this is submitting is up to personal interpretation - to me, not struggling is submitting.

The fact that league teams employ wrestling coaches says to me that they are not submitting, and that there is, in fact, a struggle. That was one of the points I was trying to make. It has to remembered that, in league,field position is determined more by forward running than in union, where kicking is the more important strategy. For a league player to submit as soon as they hit the line makes no sense - their job is too make ground.

I still think that it is more important to land correctly in union as, if you do not, there is a good chance that you will lose possession. That is why you see players go straight to ground, rather than the struggle that you may see in league.

 

[G@v]

MM, it seems to me that a League players role is to make as much ground until he is deemed to have been tackled. He will endeavor to carry on with the ball or offload it until he has been tackled. I don't see any player in RL at any time submitting or yealding to the defensive team unless he is forced.

The reason why some teams have wrestling coaches is to make it harder to put a player on his back in the tackle. Once a player is on his back that gives the defense more time at the play the ball.

 

[imported_Mystery Man]

Gav, I think that there has been a little confusion here. I agree with everything that you said in your last post.

 

[G@v]

MM, no confusion! I was really backing up what you had already pointed out.

 

[imported_Mystery Man]

I was confused!

 

[Marcus]

This is the way I see league vs union.

The fundamental difference between the two games are the tackle situation. In league once you are guaranteed possession of the ball after you have been tackled for up to 6 times. In union you aren't guaranteed possession after you have been tackled. This obvious difference means that there are two different strategies involved.

In LEAGUE the strategy involved is to make as many yards as possible within 6 tackles. They way to do this is to give the ball to the forwards. The forwards try to break the line as hard as they can and try to make some ground - 'hit ups' as they are called. This strategy is employed up to the 3rd or 4th tackle. Depending on how much ground is made the ball then will be thrown to the backs to see if they can do something with the ball. After the 5th tackle the ball is kicked down the field or into touch. Overall the amount of passing involved in league is not a lot - this is due to the guaranteed possession of the ball.

In UNION the strategy is more about possession - because its not a guaranteed thing. Therefore support play is really important. Wherever the ball is the forwards need to follow it and continue to secure possession. Its the backs duty to do something creative with the ball. When a player is tackled they can try and do 3 things. They can either; try to remain standing and form a maul; or offload to supporting runner; or to go to ground and position yourself so that the defending team will have a hard time trying to get the ball from you. Overall the amount of passing in union is quite a bit - though this will largely depend on the strength and weaknesses of the team.

 

[imported_Mystery Man]

I agree with most of what you said Marcus. The only part that I disagree with is your point about there not being much passing in league. Your point, in regards to union, about the amount of ball movement depending on the quality of the team can probably be applied to both codes.

 

[G@v]

"In UNION the strategy is more about possession - because its not a guaranteed thing. Therefore support play is really important. Wherever the ball is the forwards need to follow it and continue to secure possession. Its the backs duty to do something creative with the ball."

And so you end up with a mess. The forwards in union are not graced with any ball handling skills, their instinct is to turn the game into quagmire, a SUPPOSED80 minute tangleof rucking and mauling, stop the game from opening up as much as possible- and that's when the ball is actually in play! In League, the supporting players are creative players. Those forwards in League are quite adept at pulling off a flick pass to one of those players in support. You try and make out that all they are capable of is just battering their way through defensive lines.

The League strategy is notmerely to make as many yards as possible but to find a way of breaching that defense. Some RL sides prefer the battering ram play it down the middle approach, but most successfull sides need to get the ball out wide, to stretch the opposition defense.

 

[bender]

I might comment on this thread a little later. After an afternoon of trying to avoid work, it looks like I can do so for not much longer. This looks like a pretty good read and a good example of the quality of the old Lwos posts.

 

[CanadianSteve]

Yeah, this is the type of great thread that got me interested here in the first place. At that time I was really keen on learning the differences between the 2 codes, and this forum was a good place to ask questions.