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You said the guys aged 30+ were at their peak - which of the below guys do you anticipate will play better in 2011 than they did in 2010 - remembering what they produced in 2010 was not nearly good enough.
33 Orford
32 Moimoi
32 Hindmarsh
31 Tahu
31 Grothe
31 McGuire
30 Burt
30 Webb
If he captained a premiership team (that had 8 current or former internationals) then he must be a good leader! If he captained a premiership side, then he is a better leader than Hindy - so i guess we should make him captain to?
Your right that's why every club clammers for Andrew Johns to work with their halves. That's why the Bulldogs were so keen to keep Kimmorley. These two guys were "clever halves" and have been considered for some time "good teachers". Orford was never a clever half back - one good year on trick shot kicks for a superstar fullback hardly puts you in the class of Kimmorley and Johns.
Robson played a role, a valuable role, and i have never met the bloke, but i will stake my life that the style of football Robson played and the type of halves role he had was based on nothing he ever learnt from Orford.
how? he was always a liability in defence, averaged over 3 misses a game, that won't have changed, will only have got worse. He has never played with any of our outside backs - so by the time he builds up any sort of connection with them it will be mid seasons and we will already be out of play off contention (if he isn't on the side line by then) and then your starting from scratch again the next season! Waste of a year really...
You get creative, you take some chances. You front end some contracts with some up and comers, you use the money you save to invest in training opportunities that are outside the square. By the argument that "you have spare money under the cap, so why not spend it" - we should be signing up Luke Priddis or Steve Menzies or other old players whose "peak" was more than three years ago like Casey Maguire or Carl Webb.... oh wait...
If i recall the Eels tried to sign "experienced players" who were past their expiry date back in the early 90's and how did that work out? not to good as i recall, and before you know it you become a club where the old blokes go to get their retirement cheque.
Did I?
I think you should stop making sh*t up and learn to use the quote tags.
Here's what I said:
Here I have openly stated that Moimoi, Hindmarsh, Grothe and Tahu are all past their peaks. I've also stated that Orford is probably past his peak.
This doesn't mean they're no longer up to first grade standard, since all of these players - at their peak - were excellent-to-great first graders. I'd say they are all still above average standard for the NRL.
For what it's worth, Nathan Cayless this year played like an average NRL front-rower, meaning he wasn't worth the money he was on. Once upon a time he was in the top 3 front-rowers in the game, if not the best.
I think before you ask this question, or consider the answer, you neeed to read up on how probability works. And then try and understand it.
Almost all of the players in our team had poor seasons by their own standards. That means that they will tend to have a better season next year sheerly by virtue of the law of averages.
An illustrative example is Jarryd Hayne. He had a worse year this year than last year, but you can't put it down to old age because he's only 22. Therefore you'd have to say he'll play better next year simply because if he has an average season (by his own standards) then he will play better than he did this year.
Mannah was one of the few players who was better this year than last year and you could probably attribute that to him being another year older and better, simply because that's the most likely explanation. However, as stated, the same didn't apply to Hayne, Mortimer, Poore or Keating.
So back to your question.
I already said Moimoi, Hindmarsh, Tahu and Grothe are on the decline, however because nearly the entire team had poor seasons this year (including the young players) I still expect all four of them to have improved 2011 seasons, though with a couple marred by injury.
I didn't see McGuire this year but I expect him to play well next year, since he's a hooker/five-eighth/halfback, and at 31 is certainly still at his peak or close to it (his game was never built around explosiveness).
Burt is a pure finisher so his form will mirror the team's. If the team plays better so will Burt - after all, he's only 30 and is either at his peak or very close to it.
And Webb will have a massive season next year. A 30-year old front-rower is at his peak, and being at a new club will bring the best out in him. 2012 might see him decline, but due to attitude rather than age.
I didn't see Orford play this year however his team won 8, drew 1 and lost 5 games before he got injured. Without him they only won 3 out of 16.
Now, if you come back with another geniused argument like "Oh so he won all those games single handedly did he?" I'll f**king ignore you. Either put some intellectual rigor into your arguments or GTFO.
Correct. If he wasn't they would've made somebody else captain.
You think Des Hasler doesn't know a good leader when he sees one?
This is the second time in this thread where you've resorted to this.
Reductio ad absurdum - look it up so you don't do it again.
I don't think Johns is a good teacher at all. He might be inspirational, like some kind of human placebo for young halves, but like Wally Lewis he's shown that he's such a natural that he's unable to teach what he does.
When I talk about Orford being a god mentor I'm talking about him teaching good habits - approaches to training, preparation, lifestyle and so on.
It's the fact that Orford has so little natural talent (compared with guys like Johns) that shows how hard he works, and work ethic and professionalism are things that a senior player can pass on to the kiddies.
Agreed. But he is an experienced one.
I never said he was in the class of Kimmorley or Johns. This is you making sh*t up again.
You'll stake your life on it will you? :roll:
I'll tell you how. Read on and find out.
Very few halves aren't. It shows how useful the good ones are that teams are willing to carry their defensive liability.
In 2008 he averaged just under that (76 misses in 26 games) but I agree he's not a good defender. For a halfback he's average.
Anyway, our problem this year wasn't our defence - we're trying to buy Orford because we need him to contribute in attack.
We'll see, won't we?
How do you know how long it'll take? Orford had 26 try assists in his first season at Manly (second in the NRL to Johns).
This: http://203.166.101.37/NRL/index.html shows that he got exactly half of those try assists in the first half of the season.
Well since this is based on the false assumption that Orford will be unable to form combinations with the rest of our players, your entire argument is bullsh*t. It's becoming a bit of a running theme with you isn't it?
Like signing a couple of ex-international forwards on the cheap when they're still this side of 30 (Webb, Maitua) or signing a halfback who is younger than the Australian five-eighth and who won the Dally M Medal only two years ago?
Can't be done mate. This has already been explained to you.
Mate there's loads of money. We specifically need to spend the money allocated to our salary cap in order to be as competitive as possible next year.
We can't just write the season off because memberships and attendances will suffer. TV figures will drop and so will our sponsorship revenue.
If we can get value out of them then why not?
Though the only over-30s I'd sign would be halves. I'd also look at forwards who were world-beaters in their day, but they'd have to be physically still up to it.
For the record, Priddis was a great signing for the Dragons these past couple of years - every club needs experience and depth if it comes cheaply. Who's a better judge, you or Wayne Bennett?
At 30 Paul Dunn was our best forward. He was still playing first grade at 33.
In 1993 Brett Kenny was still our best player at 32 years of age.
It was the other young spastics around them that made our club suck.
Is that any worse than being a club that recruits young talent from all over the country, develops them into first graders, and then sees the salary cap force them to other clubs where they win premierships?
Not a chance I will bother reading any of that. Just wanted to quote it all to see how big my post will be.
