OT: Current Affairs and Politics

[Gronk]

IF he speaks with him, he'll just agree with everything he says. And then very next podcast he does he'll change his tune and agree with that person

Cartman: So all of a sudden, this satellite dish comes out of my arse.

Rogan: Oh wow. That's crazy man. Have you ever done ..

 

[Suitman]

I find it incomprehensible that anyone could defend what Russia has instigated.
Invading a sovereign country that was truly no more of a threat to attack, yet just aligning themselves with a Bloc of Euro countries that might defend them if their own security had been challenged. Which has been the case.
Yet, it is the Ukraine that supposedly has to be submissive, give up their own sovereign lands and let Russia take whatever they want for the sake of peace.
Some of you people are f**ked, and it's amazing that you can have these views while living in a peaceful country far from war and the associated atrocious war crimes that are happening daily, and who have never had to experience what daily life may be like in a brutal winter without power, or heating or food.
It's even worse that some have been brainwashed by Russian propaganda.

Putin doesn't give a f**k about his troops. He just keeps throwing them to their deaths in the hope that massive numbers will eventually win. He truly is a new age Hitler.

 

[Twizzle]

Well it was a report from CSIRO and AEMO’s:

https://www.energy.gov.au/news-media/news/renewables-confirmed-cheapest-source-electricity

Anyhow, who originally paid for all the coal electricity infrastructure to be set up in Australia, many years ago? One side got a "leg" up in their start up...

beat me to it, it's like not factoring in the cost of the coal powered plants which no one does because they are already built, I imagine the $1 a week is for the solar subsidies

Capital Cost V Running Cost

 

[Avenger]

Some of you people are f**ked, and it's amazing that you can have these views while living in a peaceful country far from war and the associated atrocious war crimes that are happening daily, and who have never had to experience what daily life may be like in a brutal winter without power, or heating or food.
It's even worse that some have been brainwashed by Russian propaganda.

Putin doesn't give a f**k about his troops. He just keeps throwing them to their deaths in the hope that massive numbers will eventually win. He truly is a new age Hitler.

You should seriously reflect on whether you've been swallowing propaganda from the other side, given how absurd your statements are. As I’ve already said, the truth typically falls somewhere in the middle. We all have our biases, but you've completely lost the plot here.

 

[the phantom menace]

Oh dear... I think Avenger must be drunk tonight or something?

 

[Avenger]

What an episide of Yellowstone!

f**k off, Phantom you lollipoper.

 

[T.S Quint]

What an episide of Yellowstone!

f**k off, Phantom you lollipoper.

——————> Yellowstone thread

 

[the phantom menace]

What an episide of Yellowstone!

f**k off, Phantom you lollipoper.

 

[strider]

You should seriously reflect on whether you've been swallowing propaganda from the other side, given how absurd your statements are. As I’ve already said, the truth typically falls somewhere in the middle. We all have our biases, but you've completely lost the plot here.

100% .... for some reason people think propaganda only flows one way .... we get brainwashed into the goodies vs the baddies and think only one side talks/does shit

the USA interfere with everything around the world - and they admit it. Yet they then bitch that other countries might be interfering with their shit - and everyone laps it up. Once in a while their bullshit gets exposed and everyone rolls their eyes - but then slot straight back into believing everything else they lie about.

 

[Gronk]

100% .... for some reason people think propaganda only flows one way .... we get brainwashed into the goodies vs the baddies and think only one side talks/does shit

the USA interfere with everything around the world - and they admit it. Yet they then bitch that other countries might be interfering with their shit - and everyone laps it up. Once in a while their bullshit gets exposed and everyone rolls their eyes - but then slot straight back into believing everything else they lie about.

This all started about a discussion on the reliability of what the Russians say that delivers some sort of justification to their invasion of another country. There has been a lot of broken promises claims, white knights to Russian loyalists etc.

All of a sudden the counter to the unreliability of the Russian “version” (propaganda) is that everyone does it - leak misinformation.

The latin term is tu quoque or you too. It seeks to diminish the validity of the argument by redirecting attention rather than engaging with the point at hand. It shifts focus to generalisations. It attempts to kill the narrative.

 

[Avenger]

Why does everyone conveniently ignore the fascist leaning ideals of the Ukrainian people especially in western Ukraine prior to the war?

 

[Gronk]

Why does everyone conveniently ignore the fascist leaning ideals of the Ukrainian people especially in western Ukraine prior to the war?

Is that a fact or what you have been told by Russia

Ukrainian Leadership in the Last 20 Years

1. Leonid Kuchma (1994–2005): A centrist who was criticized for authoritarian tendencies but not associated with fascism.

2. Viktor Yushchenko (2005–2010): Pro-European, democratic leader who focused on reforms and strengthening Ukraine’s independence.

3. Viktor Yanukovych (2010–2014): Seen as pro-Russian, his presidency ended during the 2014 Euromaidan protests. Yanukovych was criticized for corruption and authoritarian tendencies, but not for fascism.

4. Oleksandr Turchynov (Interim, 2014): Served briefly after Yanukovych fled; associated with centrist policies.

5. Petro Poroshenko (2014–2019): Pro-European leader focused on democratic reforms and resisting Russian aggression.

6. Volodymyr Zelenskyy (2019–Present): A centrist comedian-turned-politician, strongly aligned with democratic values and international cooperation.

Fascism and Ukraine

Fascism typically refers to authoritarian ultranationalist regimes like those of Mussolini or Hitler. Ukraine’s political system is a multi-party democracy, and none of its recent leaders fit this definition.

However, far-right groups like Svoboda or the Azov Regiment have occasionally been highlighted in discussions. While these groups exist, their influence in national politics has been minimal:

• Svoboda, a far-right political party, won just 2.15% of the vote in the 2019 parliamentary elections.

• The Azov Regiment, a controversial militia, has been integrated into Ukraine’s National Guard but does not represent the government.

Why This Claim Exists

Russian propaganda has frequently labeled Ukraine’s government as “fascist” to justify aggression, particularly after the 2014 Euromaidan protests and the annexation of Crimea. This narrative is largely unfounded and intended to delegitimize Ukraine’s pro-democracy and pro-European aspirations.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_presidents_of_Ukraine

Presidents Of Ukraine Since 1991

Ukraine's President is the country's head of state. Unlike in most countries, the role encompasses all 3 branches of government, not just the executive.

www.worldatlas.com

Ukraine’s Presidents, Power Elites, and the Country’s Evolution

www.wilsoncenter.org

 

[strider]

This all started about a discussion on the reliability of what the Russians say that delivers some sort of justification to their invasion of another country. There has been a lot of broken promises claims, white knights to Russian loyalists etc.

All of a sudden the counter to the unreliability of the Russian “version” (propaganda) is that everyone does it - leak misinformation.

The latin term is tu quoque or you too. It seeks to diminish the validity of the argument by redirecting attention rather than engaging with the point at hand. It shifts focus to generalisations. It attempts to kill the narrative.

The whole reason there are posts about propaganda in BOTH directions is cos suity went down the wanker path of calling everyone a f**kit russian propaganda believer. Its direct responses to that.

I know you dont want to believe it goes both ways, cos your opinion of yourself is too high to admit you might fall for it too.
As they say, the first casualty of war is the truth - and that goes in both directions whether you like it or not.

 

[Gronk]

I know you dont want to believe it goes both ways, cos your opinion of yourself is too high to admit you might fall for it too.

FMD you have a massive chip on your shoulder.

 

[Avenger]

FMD you have a massive chip on your shoulder.

Hypocrite.

 

[Avenger]

Is that a fact or what you have been told by Russia

Ukrainian Leadership in the Last 20 Years

1. Leonid Kuchma (1994–2005): A centrist who was criticized for authoritarian tendencies but not associated with fascism.

2. Viktor Yushchenko (2005–2010): Pro-European, democratic leader who focused on reforms and strengthening Ukraine’s independence.

3. Viktor Yanukovych (2010–2014): Seen as pro-Russian, his presidency ended during the 2014 Euromaidan protests. Yanukovych was criticized for corruption and authoritarian tendencies, but not for fascism.

4. Oleksandr Turchynov (Interim, 2014): Served briefly after Yanukovych fled; associated with centrist policies.

5. Petro Poroshenko (2014–2019): Pro-European leader focused on democratic reforms and resisting Russian aggression.

6. Volodymyr Zelenskyy (2019–Present): A centrist comedian-turned-politician, strongly aligned with democratic values and international cooperation.

Fascism and Ukraine

Fascism typically refers to authoritarian ultranationalist regimes like those of Mussolini or Hitler. Ukraine’s political system is a multi-party democracy, and none of its recent leaders fit this definition.

However, far-right groups like Svoboda or the Azov Regiment have occasionally been highlighted in discussions. While these groups exist, their influence in national politics has been minimal:

• Svoboda, a far-right political party, won just 2.15% of the vote in the 2019 parliamentary elections.

• The Azov Regiment, a controversial militia, has been integrated into Ukraine’s National Guard but does not represent the government.

Why This Claim Exists

Russian propaganda has frequently labeled Ukraine’s government as “fascist” to justify aggression, particularly after the 2014 Euromaidan protests and the annexation of Crimea. This narrative is largely unfounded and intended to delegitimize Ukraine’s pro-democracy and pro-European aspirations.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_presidents_of_Ukraine

Presidents Of Ukraine Since 1991

Ukraine's President is the country's head of state. Unlike in most countries, the role encompasses all 3 branches of government, not just the executive.

www.worldatlas.com

Ukraine’s Presidents, Power Elites, and the Country’s Evolution

www.wilsoncenter.org

Look up Stepan Bandera.

 

[Avenger]

Even AI knows. Like I keep f**king saying, the truth lies somewhere in the middle.


If you’re referring to a controversial figure being labeled a fascist in the context of Ukraine, it’s likely about Stepan Bandera. Bandera was a leader of the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists (OUN) during World War II, and his legacy is highly divisive.





In Ukraine, some view him as a hero for fighting for Ukrainian independence against both Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union. However, others criticize his collaboration with the Nazis and accuse his movement of participating in war crimes and ethnic cleansing, particularly against Poles and Jews.





This divide often surfaces in discussions about Ukrainian nationalism and history, with Bandera celebrated by some and condemned by others.

 

[Avenger]

Bandera is now celebrated in Ukraine just like Ante Pavelić in some parts of Croatia. But hey it’s just all propaganda you left leaning know it all piece of garbage!

 

[Gronk]

Hypocrite.

Do tell. FYI @strider often has a go at me personally, but he knows that I have never gone out to do the same to him.

 

[Avenger]

Do tell. FYI @strider often has a go at me personally, but he knows that I have never gone out to do the same to him.

Look above.