OT: Current Affairs and Politics

[strider]

As opposed to the labor talking points, which are ...

... say nothing, cos we know we all have skeletons in the closet

And yes its exactly the same if the roles were reversed.

 

[Bandwagon]

There's no profit in Labor making a further martyr out of Gladys, she's still well liked in the electorate despite the findings and punching down on her now would likely just backfire politically.

 

[Gronk]

As opposed to the labor talking points, which are ...

... say nothing, cos we know we all have skeletons in the closet

And yes its exactly the same if the roles were reversed.

If you freeze tbe play there, there is only one side of politics who are trying to shut down the NSW ICAC, the vic version IBAC and prevent the federal version.

So say what you like and throw your look over there they all do it diversions but it's pretty clear who are scheming to maintain a certain strategy.

Of course there is dodgy politicians, but an ICAC (preferably with sharper teeth) is far better than not having any.

BTW the NSW version was introduced by Greiner after a super dodgy period of Wran etc. Here we are in 2023 and labor thinks you guys did great and the terms of reference should be expanded. Good idea ?

 

[strider]

Diversions? .... if we wanna talk diversions, well the masters of diversion must surely be the current federal labor mean girls ... get caught using a poor girl for political gain and lying about it, so bung on some crocodile tears and get some people to air other dirty laundry .... all good, under the rug it goes.

 

[Gronk]

Diversions? .... if we wanna talk diversions, well the masters of diversion must surely be the current federal labor mean girls ... get caught using a poor girl for political gain and lying about it, so bung on some crocodile tears and get some people to air other dirty laundry .... all good, under the rug it goes.

If you are fair dinkum, you would not be throwing molotov cocktails about the Higgins / Lehrmann saga as if the LNP somehow has clean or even cleaner hands.

Surely you can't be so partisan to play whatabout and ignore the horrible treatment that Canberra bestowed on those two young people. It hasn't stopped either. Some are still milking it.

 

[the phantom menace]

But it's highly amusing watching reactions from a certain side of politics, pretending that these findings are a travesty, or that the judgement that Gladys 'engaged in serious corrupt conduct' was unexpected...

*or reactions from certain members of the fourm

 

[the phantom menace]

This one's a good read - extracts from the report and explanations, for those who tend to get distracted by media coverage of the LNP talking points...

12 key findings from the Gladys Berejiklian report

The former premier of NSW has been found “seriously corrupt” by the ICAC. Here are 12 key takeaways.

www.smh.com.au

 

[bazza]

Most governments are corrupt, cmon man do you really think they're really there to serve the common person lol .

hopefully ICAC keeps weeding them out until they do

 

[Chipmunk]

So this ICAC says that she was seriously corrupt (their words), and that serious corruption is a criminal offence under NSW law. However, they won't refer the matter to the DPP.

How can this ICAC make a finding that a criminal offence has been committed and not refer the matter to the DPP? Surely not referring a matter to the DPP when you know a criminal offence has been committed, is in itself considered corruption?

 

[Chipmunk]

Storm in a tea cup compared to federal rorts. Hence why they fought tooth and nail against a Federal ICAC.

Merkins will no doubt say "pfft they all do it" as some sort of a defence, but an ICAC keeps the bastards honest. It might not have the widest of powers, can't actually prosecute and can only refer to the ODPP, but it's enough to scare a bunch. Love to know why O'Farrell resigned. Was it really over a bottle of wine ? Or was ICAC sniffing around ?

Let's face it, if Alan Jones is upset that ICAC is stopping rorts, then it's probably doing a good job.

ICAC, not Berejiklian ‘should be on the rack’

Sky News host Alan Jones says the ICAC is an outfit that thrives on the blood sport of destroying the reputations of high-profile people and it should be on the rack instead of Gladys Berejiklian.

www.skynews.com.au

If you're suggesting a federal ICAC will lead to criminal matters relating to pork barreling by the Australian Government at the time, I suspect you'll be sadly mistaken.

A Parliamentary Committee released a report yesterday on the exact issue...All they plan to do differently is publicise (i.e. publish on a website no one looks at) the fact that someone has been pork barrelled or not.

 

[Gronk]

If you're suggesting a federal ICAC will lead to criminal matters relating to pork barreling by the Australian Government at the time, I suspect you'll be sadly mistaken.

A Parliamentary Committee released a report yesterday on the exact issue...All they plan to do differently is publicise (i.e. publish on a website no one looks at) the fact that someone has been pork barrelled or not.

Well I think you are paraphrasing the role of NACC in a very cheeky way.

The referral process for criminal prosecution is the same as NSW ICAC or a Royal Commission.

https://www.ag.gov.au/integrity/national-anti-corruption-commission/what-happens-end-nacc-investigation

Then S.160 of the NACC Act states that the Commissioner can refer the matter to a Commonwealth Agency. This is the same in NSW how the ICAC refer matters to ODPP.

Federal Register of Legislation - National Anti-Corruption Commission Act 2022

www.legislation.gov.au

 

[strider]

If you are fair dinkum, you would not be throwing molotov cocktails about the Higgins / Lehrmann saga as if the LNP somehow has clean or even cleaner hands.

Surely you can't be so partisan to play whatabout and ignore the horrible treatment that Canberra bestowed on those two young people. It hasn't stopped either. Some are still milking it.

Ive never said anything to defend the LNP handling of it - i am sure they tried their best to sweep it away .... you are just playing old man yelling at clouds now.

 

[Gronk]

Ive never said anything to defend the LNP handling of it - i am sure they tried their best to sweep it away .... you are just playing old man yelling at clouds now.

In what way am I yelling at clouds ?

 

[Chipmunk]

Well I think you are paraphrasing the role of NACC in a very cheeky way.

The referral process for criminal prosecution is the same as NSW ICAC or a Royal Commission.

https://www.ag.gov.au/integrity/national-anti-corruption-commission/what-happens-end-nacc-investigation

Then S.160 of the NACC Act states that the Commissioner can refer the matter to a Commonwealth Agency. This is the same in NSW how the ICAC refer matters to ODPP.

Federal Register of Legislation - National Anti-Corruption Commission Act 2022

www.legislation.gov.au

"Pork Barreling" has never been, still isn't, and never will be, illegal, under any Commonwealth legislation.

 

[Gronk]

"Pork Barreling" has never been, still isn't, and never will be, illegal, under any Commonwealth legislation.

Is that the reason why it was set up ? Or was it to catch merkins like this ?

Lobbying firm proposed structure to allow Stuart Robert to profit from winning government contracts, parliamentary committee told

Audit committee publishes witness statement claiming arrangement was designed by lobbying firm Synergy 360 to facilitate flow of funds to Robert, which he denies

www.theguardian.com

PwC tax scandal: firm engaged in a ‘calculated’ breach of trust, Senate committee finds

Consulting firm used confidential government information to help private clients avoid tax, interim report tabled in parliament finds

www.theguardian.com

 

[Gronk]

"Pork Barreling" has never been, still isn't, and never will be, illegal, under any Commonwealth legislation.

BTW, there is a school of thought that it should be tested in NSW and possibly under Federal laws.

Professor Anne Twomey argued that in some cases it could already be viewed as such under Common Law. “In short pork-barreling may satisfy conditions of corrupt conduct under the ICAC act, where there is partial behaviour that occurs for an improper purpose and in very serious cases it might even constitute a criminal offence of misconduct in public office.”

 

[Chipmunk]

BTW, there is a school of thought that it should be tested in NSW and possibly under Federal laws.

Professor Anne Twomey argued that in some cases it could already be viewed as such under Common Law. “In short pork-barreling may satisfy conditions of corrupt conduct under the ICAC act, where there is partial behaviour that occurs for an improper purpose and in very serious cases it might even constitute a criminal offence of misconduct in public office.”

It would be difficult to prove beyond reasonable doubt that a situation of 'pork barreling' was for an improper purpose. There are always going to be a valid excuse and justifiable reasons for decisions that are made that could be classified as pork barreling.

Is that the reason why it was set up ? Or was it to catch merkins like this ?

Lobbying firm proposed structure to allow Stuart Robert to profit from winning government contracts, parliamentary committee told

Audit committee publishes witness statement claiming arrangement was designed by lobbying firm Synergy 360 to facilitate flow of funds to Robert, which he denies

www.theguardian.com

PwC tax scandal: firm engaged in a ‘calculated’ breach of trust, Senate committee finds

Consulting firm used confidential government information to help private clients avoid tax, interim report tabled in parliament finds

www.theguardian.com

Well that wasn't pork barreling.

 

[Gronk]

Well that wasn't pork barreling.

Well I didn't say it was.

 

[strider]

It would be difficult to prove beyond reasonable doubt that a situation of 'pork barreling' was for an improper purpose. There are always going to be a valid excuse and justifiable reasons for decisions that are made that could be classified as pork barreling.

Well that wasn't pork barreling.

Exactly. And you will probably end up with an absolute farce where everything gets labelled pork barrelling for political purposes and the potential that legit things will get avoided for fear of been seen as pork barrelling.

 

[Gronk]

There is a lot of focus on pork barrelling, yet Gladys's BF is facing criminal charges for many other things. Mainly from using his position of trust to profit.

12 key findings from the Gladys Berejiklian report

The former premier of NSW has been found “seriously corrupt” by the ICAC. Here are 12 key takeaways.

www.smh.com.au

Pork barrelling, pork barrelling it's not a crime, so the whole federal ICAC thing is a waste of time ! Nope.