Our answer to replacing Shackleton

[The Colonel]

and he doesn't have the ball skills to play as a ball playing lock/back rower. Horo is probably the better option long term, but he's not been in great form I believe. He'll probably get a run as soon as he hits form (if he does)

Oake played 5/8 and lock in the 2004 Flegg side. He has the ball skills but has never been allowed use them. He isn't an impact player but then outside of possibly Peletelese or Mateo we don't have any real impact players that could be utilised from the bench.

As for Horo - the same thing was said last year and we are still waiting for him.

 

[lingard]

Its only my opinion & everybody is entitled to have an opinion but we cant afford to have mediocre players in the team. If we do the opposition teams will be targeting them as they will be a weakness. I know that he is a local junior but that doesn't mean that he is up to first grade standard.

Okay. So we only field 16 players then.:roll:

 

[lingard]

Mediocre player? Based on the game time he got, coming off the bench, onto a side that was getting smashed? :roll:

If anything, Oake is not a bench player - he isn't an explosive, impact-type of player. But that's certainly not his fault, and when your starting back row has Hindy, Smith (who has been tremendous the last 18 or so months) and Mateo, who do you drop? I'd say Mateo to the bench as an impact weapon - but then you run the risk of not getting off to an attacking start because he's benched.

Oake isn't the world's greatest player, but to judge him on one performance where EVERYONE played pretty poorly for 50 minutes is just harsh.

And I'd say Anderson has made the right calls vis-a-vis players thus far - he let go of Finch because he wasn't fitting in with our team (good call; he's perfect for Melbourne, but not for us), was happy to see Kelly go (good call)...So why question him now?

Oake deserves at least a full month before the knives come out imo.[/QUOTE]

As does Robson. And Mortimer, and Keating (both of them) for that matter.

 

[Bazal]

Oake played 5/8 and lock in the 2004 Flegg side. He has the ball skills but has never been allowed use them. He isn't an impact player but then outside of possibly Peletelese or Mateo we don't have any real impact players that could be utilised from the bench.

As for Horo - the same thing was said last year and we are still waiting for him.

Didn't he wreck his ankle early last year, and was thus out of action for much of the year?

 

[lingard]

I know i usually wait till round 5!

I usually start hitting the crack around state of origin time, then when we hit the finals I switch to Crystal Meth. I like to use smack during the off-season.

 

[lingard]

yes - I would certainly like to know what in the hell has happened to our offloads?

Well, in the first half yesterday, we had no ball. And we only got the ball and the momentum about halfway thru the second half. It will come.

 

[yy_cheng]

One other thing I noticed yesterday is that we seem to be playing the safety first bash and barge game that we started off last year with, and continued for around 15 rounds.
I think once the lads get there confidence up a bit, and we start to get the off loads going again, we will provide all sorts of problems. It will come with renewed confidence in handling, and yesterday in small doses, we started to show some of that. The off load game that we excelled so well at last year will come with that confidence, and will give us more space which in turn, will ease the pressure on our halves and hooker.

Suity

I think we started doing that just before the finals last year.

We went safety first before starting to onload.

Yesterday was weird, Caylo, Hindy and Mateo hardly tried to offload

 

[yy_cheng]

Okay. So we only field 16 players then.:roll:

Sort of.

For a 20 minute position, we need an impact player. Someone who might not even be used.

I'd rather Poore, Fui and Caylo have more game time than have a non impact player soak up some minutes.

In yesterday's conditions, fair enough as even Hindy needed a break but I would really choose INU on the last bench spot.

I don't think he played Wenty yesterday so he just sat out.

Let him sit on the bench with #16 on his back.

Throw him in to rip in like Matai does at lock or second row.

Don't let him stand wide waiting. Get him to make good hard runs in short stints until our three props get their breath back.

If we are going fine and nothing needs changing, he can stay on the bench. Better than being in the team but not playing.

 

[Suitman]

I think we started doing that just before the finals last year.

No, we started doing just before we went on our winning streak.
Titans game at Skilled, was the first I saw it. We lost that, but then won every game after that except the grand final and the give up game at Kogarah in Rnd 26.

Suity

 

[yy_cheng]

Suity, I mean playing some safety first.

 

[Casper The Ghost]

Another scenario would be for the starting pack to use

Cayless in the 2nd Row,
Smith to Lock,
Mateo to the bench (his skill is attack so bring him on after 10/15 minutes, rest Cayless & use Cayless in 4 or 5 short bursts throughout match), Poore and Fui as starting Props,
Mannah as 3rd rotation prop.

Then its a matter of grooming another prop.... Pele or start grooming Horo or a junior prop in short bursts in readiness for the end of year festivities - shame about Mitchel Johnson moving on, I thought he had the gun-powder to quickly blossom into a ferocious front-row enforcer - seems he is too loose a wire with his temper etc).

Fui
MK
Poore
Hindmarsh
Cayless
Smith
JR
DM/KK
Grothe
Reddy
Tahu
Hayne

Mateo
Mannah
KK/DM
Pele or a Junior long-term rotating prop or possibly Horo

I think Oak should possibly be next in line to cover for the possible loss of Hindy, Cayless, Smith or Mateo. Give Oak more time to work up his intensity in the reserves.

We really need to groom another prop NOW for the end of year festivities. We will find it very hard to win the GF without 4 versatile rotating props.

Important Points

1. Having Poore start with Fui will help Poore quickly improve on his intensity. Poore can play two 30 minute bursts.

2. Use Fui in three or four bursts throughout a game 10 to 15 minutes (sometimes 20 to 30 minutes if defence has been minimal and he is not tired - Occasionally Fui could even swap with Cayless in the 2nd Row or even better and ONLY for attack, be used out wide to run off Tahu or have Tahu run off him and bring in a back to cover for the forwards for a few sets... Inu or Reddy)

3. Cayless groomed as a rotating second Rower for the rest of the year... He has awesome ball skills that need to be brought to the fore now - this will help with our second phase plays. Cayless to focus more on his attacking skills and be used as a cover (if necessary) for Fui or Poore.

4. Smith is good enough and fast enough now to be at lock, can play 80 minutes, his speed is still improving, his covering defense is also improving (in tandem with Robbo they will both cover either side of the rucks to support DM & KK in defense. Smith can also rotate to 2nd row when Mateo comes on to lock or Smith stays at lock if Mateo goes to 5/8

5. Mateo used as an attacking weapon, Kept out of the bullfight for the 1st ten minutes or so of each game. Can be used in two 30 minute bursts throughout a game. DA then has the flexibility of pushing Mateo wider as 5/8 or closer in the ruck at lock.

6. Develop Horo as an attacking ball playing prop (if he is up to it - give him 4 to 6 weeks to see how he goes in 1st grade) or use Pele as a brute enforcer (if he is up to it) give him 4 to 6 weeks to prove himself.

7. Its important that DA starts grooming a 4th rotating prop, preferably a ball playing prop who can set of second phase plays or can get the ball through the line and then pass it to an attacker running off him. I feel strongly that DA needs to start grooming this 4th prop from this Friday against the Tigers and stick it out with his chosen protege.

8. This is the most important point... with the loss of Shack we really need to groom another prop NOW for the end of year festivities. We will find it very hard to win the GF without 4 versatile rotating props.

 

[Casper The Ghost]

I usually start hitting the crack around state of origin time, then when we hit the finals I switch to Crystal Meth. I like to use smack during the off-season.

You left out the mandrakes..... what about popping a few mandrakes with some metho??????

 

[salvy71]

I'd think it'd be fair to give him another chance , Tahu let 2 tries in with woeful defensive reads but i wouldn't want him to be dropped , sometimes it's just some off season rust ....no need to chop and change too much just yet .

 

[bartman]

Oake look outclassed, disappointing as he looked like he was ready to step up this year judging by the Roosters trial.

Robson to lock, Mateo to bench, K Keating starting at 7.

That's my favoured option for replacing Shack this year.

 

[yy_cheng]

Oake look outclassed, disappointing as he looked like he was ready to step up this year judging by the Roosters trial.

Robson to lock, Mateo to bench, K Keating starting at 7.

That's my favoured option for replacing Shack this year.

I'm ok with that but I don't think I would like MK playing 80mins.

 

[yy_cheng]

Another scenario would be for the starting pack to use

Cayless in the 2nd Row,
Smith to Lock,
Mateo to the bench (his skill is attack so bring him on after 10/15 minutes, rest Cayless & use Cayless in 4 or 5 short bursts throughout match), Poore and Fui as starting Props,
Mannah as 3rd rotation prop.

Then its a matter of grooming another prop.... Pele or start grooming Horo or a junior prop in short bursts in readiness for the end of year festivities - shame about Mitchel Johnson moving on, I thought he had the gun-powder to quickly blossom into a ferocious front-row enforcer - seems he is too loose a wire with his temper etc).

Fui
MK
Poore
Hindmarsh
Cayless
Smith
JR
DM/KK
Grothe
Reddy
Tahu
Hayne

Mateo
Mannah
KK/DM
Pele or a Junior long-term rotating prop or possibly Horo

I think Oak should possibly be next in line to cover for the possible loss of Hindy, Cayless, Smith or Mateo. Give Oak more time to work up his intensity in the reserves.

We really need to groom another prop NOW for the end of year festivities. We will find it very hard to win the GF without 4 versatile rotating props.

Important Points

1. Having Poore start with Fui will help Poore quickly improve on his intensity. Poore can play two 30 minute bursts.

2. Use Fui in three or four bursts throughout a game 10 to 15 minutes (sometimes 20 to 30 minutes if defence has been minimal and he is not tired - Occasionally Fui could even swap with Cayless in the 2nd Row or even better and ONLY for attack, be used out wide to run off Tahu or have Tahu run off him and bring in a back to cover for the forwards for a few sets... Inu or Reddy)

3. Cayless groomed as a rotating second Rower for the rest of the year... He has awesome ball skills that need to be brought to the fore now - this will help with our second phase plays. Cayless to focus more on his attacking skills and be used as a cover (if necessary) for Fui or Poore.

4. Smith is good enough and fast enough now to be at lock, can play 80 minutes, his speed is still improving, his covering defense is also improving (in tandem with Robbo they will both cover either side of the rucks to support DM & KK in defense. Smith can also rotate to 2nd row when Mateo comes on to lock or Smith stays at lock if Mateo goes to 5/8

5. Mateo used as an attacking weapon, Kept out of the bullfight for the 1st ten minutes or so of each game. Can be used in two 30 minute bursts throughout a game. DA then has the flexibility of pushing Mateo wider as 5/8 or closer in the ruck at lock.

6. Develop Horo as an attacking ball playing prop (if he is up to it - give him 4 to 6 weeks to see how he goes in 1st grade) or use Pele as a brute enforcer (if he is up to it) give him 4 to 6 weeks to prove himself.

7. Its important that DA starts grooming a 4th rotating prop, preferably a ball playing prop who can set of second phase plays or can get the ball through the line and then pass it to an attacker running off him. I feel strongly that DA needs to start grooming this 4th prop from this Friday against the Tigers and stick it out with his chosen protege.

8. This is the most important point... with the loss of Shack we really need to groom another prop NOW for the end of year festivities. We will find it very hard to win the GF without 4 versatile rotating props.

Wow I finally agree with you. Oake plays 20 wasted minutes. IMO, he got in Tahu's way a couple of times as he camped himself 1 in from Tahu.

I'd rather give that to someone who can rip in for short spurts. E.g. INU or anyone else who is just commissioned to play hard for 10 mins.

 

[bartman]

I'm ok with that but I don't think I would like MK playing 80mins.

He doesn't have to... Robson to hooker when Mateo comes on to lock. Everyone's a winner!

 

[yy_cheng]

He doesn't have to... Robson to hooker when Mateo comes on to lock. Everyone's a winner!

Yup, I did think of that but will he provide any impact from hooker after tackling his heart out in the first 20mins?

 

[Casper The Ghost]

He doesn't have to... Robson to hooker when Mateo comes on to lock. Everyone's a winner!

Barty, I still feel Robbo is currently more valuable as a 7 who covers up all the loose holes in defense, covering behind the 5/8 & centers as he has been doing now and last year. With the current team makeup, moving Robbo to hooker or to the bench, may have us leak many more points in defence than producing attacking points.

Leaving KK & DM exposed in defence of wide running fast backrowers, centers & wingers is a huge hole to plug, neither of these players could hold this end up for 80 minutes. That's until they mature defensively - their bodies (particularly their shoulders) need to get stronger.

The real problem I feel is sorting out the go forward of the pack, getting MK and KK (ala Kingston) to roll along quickly off the back of the go forward of the props and linking in with Robbo, Mortimer, Hayne & Mateo or Smith (8) etc.

If I was DA I would be focusing lots of energy on the go forward of the forwards and sorting out the synchronicity of MK and KK at hooker. Once this has been resolved we should see a massive difference in the teams overall performance. We have awesome attackers who will only get better and better and will chime in/call for the ball while Robbo is left to co-ordinate as the main link man of most attacks behind a well oiled machine....... This is the add-lib mixed with synchronicity I would love to see be developed.

Late in the game of either half, and in attacking sweeps I can see benefit having a fast KK (every now and then) at 7 probing for holes in the defence.

 

[Fathead]

Another scenario would be for the starting pack to use

Cayless in the 2nd Row,
Smith to Lock,
Mateo to the bench (his skill is attack so bring him on after 10/15 minutes, rest Cayless & use Cayless in 4 or 5 short bursts throughout match), Poore and Fui as starting Props,
Mannah as 3rd rotation prop.

Then its a matter of grooming another prop.... Pele or start grooming Horo or a junior prop in short bursts in readiness for the end of year festivities - shame about Mitchel Johnson moving on, I thought he had the gun-powder to quickly blossom into a ferocious front-row enforcer - seems he is too loose a wire with his temper etc).

Fui
MK
Poore
Hindmarsh
Cayless
Smith
JR
DM/KK
Grothe
Reddy
Tahu
Hayne

Mateo
Mannah
KK/DM
Pele or a Junior long-term rotating prop or possibly Horo

I think Oak should possibly be next in line to cover for the possible loss of Hindy, Cayless, Smith or Mateo. Give Oak more time to work up his intensity in the reserves.

We really need to groom another prop NOW for the end of year festivities. We will find it very hard to win the GF without 4 versatile rotating props.

Important Points

1. Having Poore start with Fui will help Poore quickly improve on his intensity. Poore can play two 30 minute bursts.

2. Use Fui in three or four bursts throughout a game 10 to 15 minutes (sometimes 20 to 30 minutes if defence has been minimal and he is not tired - Occasionally Fui could even swap with Cayless in the 2nd Row or even better and ONLY for attack, be used out wide to run off Tahu or have Tahu run off him and bring in a back to cover for the forwards for a few sets... Inu or Reddy)

3. Cayless groomed as a rotating second Rower for the rest of the year... He has awesome ball skills that need to be brought to the fore now - this will help with our second phase plays. Cayless to focus more on his attacking skills and be used as a cover (if necessary) for Fui or Poore.

4. Smith is good enough and fast enough now to be at lock, can play 80 minutes, his speed is still improving, his covering defense is also improving (in tandem with Robbo they will both cover either side of the rucks to support DM & KK in defense. Smith can also rotate to 2nd row when Mateo comes on to lock or Smith stays at lock if Mateo goes to 5/8

5. Mateo used as an attacking weapon, Kept out of the bullfight for the 1st ten minutes or so of each game. Can be used in two 30 minute bursts throughout a game. DA then has the flexibility of pushing Mateo wider as 5/8 or closer in the ruck at lock.

6. Develop Horo as an attacking ball playing prop (if he is up to it - give him 4 to 6 weeks to see how he goes in 1st grade) or use Pele as a brute enforcer (if he is up to it) give him 4 to 6 weeks to prove himself.

7. Its important that DA starts grooming a 4th rotating prop, preferably a ball playing prop who can set of second phase plays or can get the ball through the line and then pass it to an attacker running off him. I feel strongly that DA needs to start grooming this 4th prop from this Friday against the Tigers and stick it out with his chosen protege.

8. This is the most important point... with the loss of Shack we really need to groom another prop NOW for the end of year festivities. We will find it very hard to win the GF without 4 versatile rotating props.

Thanks for this post - a well thought out, intelligent posting.