Our run to the finals

[Black Diamond]

Sorry to be a pedant but “versing” is not a word. There is no verb for “verses”

Don't you mean pedantic not pendant

 

[herbert henry1908]

Don't you mean pedantic not pendant

No.

Because then I would’ve structured the sentence differently.

But you’re probably just pulling my leg, so I’ll see myself out..

 

[Panfa]

Loser of roosters sharks play winner of penrith warriors in week 2 and loser of storm souths play winner of broncos dragons week 2

 

[OldPanther]

No.

Because then I would’ve structured the sentence differently.

But you’re probably just pulling my leg, so I’ll see myself out..

I think he misread it. You said pedant he said pendant.

 

[Black Diamond]

I think he misread it. You said pedant he said pendant.

Yes you are absolutely right, that is why the sentence made no sense to me, apologies. Might be time for a visit to Spec Savers!

 

[Pomoz]

I don’t see it as a big deal for 5th place. It’s not like we actually earned a home final.

I don’t like the current finals system at all. Might be easier to follow but it doesn’t reward the teams who play the best in the regular season enough.

I agree with your point. I am a fan of the EPL system, the winner is the best team over a season. Each team should be played twice so it is fair. The finals system rewards lucky punchers too often. The Cowboys were no way deserving of a grand final after the year they had. A team finishing 8th is way off being a measure of "the best team". The winner should be the best at the end of the season, end of. Have cup competitions for the drama of a final (like the FA cup).

So using my rules, the Roosters have shown they were the best team this season, even if the margin of "the best" is measured in nanometres. Well done chooks, unfortunately my rules don't stand so get back in the queue for a premiership.

Given we have the system we have, I disagree about undeserving winners. This year is quite different. There are two points, one win, between first and eighth. When you factor in the fact teams are not played twice, so each team has a different mix of opposition during the season, I think this year every team deserves their place and a crack at the big one.

Imperfect but dramatic. Its going to be an awesome finals series. Who will turn up? The bumbling, lazy, can't be arsed Panthers, or the relentless, driving machine that smashed opponents backwards and played hard for every second of 80 minutes. Will the Dragons rediscover how to go forward and will the Warriors learn how to win more than one week in a row?

At the moment the Sharks look in great form. They are like the Storm but without the flair of Slater and Munster. First they rough you up, like a young Muhammed Ali, smacking you around a bit until your legs are gone and your eye is closed from the pounding in the face. Then they just choke you to death like a python, until your eyes bulge, your breath shortens and Valentine Holmes strolls over in the corner. It is ugly, awful football, but so effective. Who can beat them?

 

[herbert henry1908]

I agree with your point. I am a fan of the EPL system, the winner is the best team over a season. Each team should be played twice so it is fair. The finals system rewards lucky punchers too often. The Cowboys were no way deserving of a grand final after the year they had. A team finishing 8th is way off being a measure of "the best team". The winner should be the best at the end of the season, end of. Have cup competitions for the drama of a final (like the FA cup).

So using my rules, the Roosters have shown they were the best team this season, even if the margin of "the best" is measured in nanometres. Well done chooks, unfortunately my rules don't stand so get back in the queue for a premiership.

Given we have the system we have, I disagree about undeserving winners. This year is quite different. There are two points, one win, between first and eighth. When you factor in the fact teams are not played twice, so each team has a different mix of opposition during the season, I think this year every team deserves their place and a crack at the big one.

Imperfect but dramatic. Its going to be an awesome finals series. Who will turn up? The bumbling, lazy, can't be arsed Panthers, or the relentless, driving machine that smashed opponents backwards and played hard for every second of 80 minutes. Will the Dragons rediscover how to go forward and will the Warriors learn how to win more than one week in a row?

At the moment the Sharks look in great form. They are like the Storm but without the flair of Slater and Munster. First they rough you up, like a young Muhammed Ali, smacking you around a bit until your legs are gone and your eye is closed from the pounding in the face. Then they just choke you to death like a python, until your eyes bulge, your breath shortens and Valentine Holmes strolls over in the corner. It is ugly, awful football, but so effective. Who can beat them?

Ideally a cup comp would be great, but the season is so jam packed as is it’d be hard to pull off.

Perhaps when the game grows to 20 teams? You could have a 19 round season & a cup competition on top of that.

Other problem is a finals system is so ingrained in our culture. Would a cup competition be enough to satisfy people’s need for knock out footy?

 

[age.s]

First pass the post works in the EPL because there are a range of other incentives that ensure there is something riding on the majority of matches. Between relegation and European qualification even late season rounds are mostly appropriately incentivised. Even in a year as close this one, there would be a huge number of games with literally nothing riding on them in the last few rounds of the year. Not much of a climax. Aside from that, the sport's history of proximity to bookmakers (putting it nicely) means that we should be careful about deincentivising players and coaches motivations to win.

The other issue is Origin. Losing your best players for 3 matches is a handicap that doesn't affect all teams equally. You'll wear it when the playoffs are the competition that decides the premier, but if competition points become the only metric that matters being screwed by Origin becomes way more important.

In short it wouldn't work atm. Drastically restructure the sport's ecosystem and maybe. I don't see it happening though.

 

[tripster]

The Broncos are the dark horse for mine. There is so little separating first and eighth this year that I think it is the best chance thus far for a team outside of the top 4 to win it, and I could see the Broncos beating any of the other teams.

Their form has been building over the past few months, and they have beaten the Roosters (x2) Sharks (x2) Rabbitohs (x2), and us and their forwards are really starting to fire.

They are a young side so will recover better between each game, and old Bennett knows how to get a team performing in the finals. Storm have had their measure in prior years (and beat them this year, as did the Warriors), but the Storm seem to be faltering heading into the finals this year, and I could see the Broncos getting on top of them. Broncos are the team I’d least like to play.

 

[Blues Riff]

Sorry to be a pedant but “versing” is not a word. There is no verb for “verses”

It's actually "versus" if we're being pedantic. A Latin word meaning opposed to, facing or against, but yeah, there is no verb form.

 

[Pomoz]

First pass the post works in the EPL because there are a range of other incentives that ensure there is something riding on the majority of matches. Between relegation and European qualification even late season rounds are mostly appropriately incentivised. Even in a year as close this one, there would be a huge number of games with literally nothing riding on them in the last few rounds of the year. Not much of a climax. Aside from that, the sport's history of proximity to bookmakers (putting it nicely) means that we should be careful about deincentivising players and coaches motivations to win.

The other issue is Origin. Losing your best players for 3 matches is a handicap that doesn't affect all teams equally. You'll wear it when the playoffs are the competition that decides the premier, but if competition points become the only metric that matters being screwed by Origin becomes way more important.

In short it wouldn't work atm. Drastically restructure the sport's ecosystem and maybe. I don't see it happening though.

I don't agree with your point about incentives. If the final eight is already decided, there are a number of games that aren't important under the current format as well. Furthermore, in Australia relegation isn't a factor so the focus is only on the top teams. There are a number of "nothing at stake" games weeks before the semi finals, that's sport.

As for rep players, teams are impacted in the EPL by international duty and it has more impact on some teams than others. That will always be the case in any code that has rep teams. Even when there is a bye, players often come back exhausted or injured.

I agree the competition would need to change. For a start we would need to have each team play each other twice. This could be reduced to once, if the number of teams increased.

The year's climax comes from a cup final, such as the challenge cup. That would require mid week matches and would add four extra games to the two teams that make the final. Five if you make it two legs in the semi final. It would give ISP players more opportunities as clubs tried to manage the workload.

 

[TheFrog]

Sorry to be a pedant but “versing” is not a word.

Could be reading poetry to them.

 

[umina panther]

Clubs going broke and folding every year would just be wonderful for our sport

 

[age.s]

I don't agree with your point about incentives. If the final eight is already decided, there are a number of games that aren't important under the current format as well. Furthermore, in Australia relegation isn't a factor so the focus is only on the top teams. There are a number of "nothing at stake" games weeks before the semi finals, that's sport.

Its not even close to the same level though. 7 of the 8 games in this last round had something riding on them. In a fptp only 2 of them would have. And that's a good year. That's before you get to the effect it'd have on individual clubs. What would Parra have had to play for after the first month of the comp? 3/4s of the comp will be out by Origin.

Yes there are meaningless games and discarded teams in this system. That's a problem though and your system would emphasize them. Hugely. It's pretty disingenuous to dismiss it as an issue tbh.

As for rep players, teams are impacted in the EPL by international duty and it has more impact on some teams than others. That will always be the case in any code that has rep teams. Even when there is a bye, players often come back exhausted or injured.

EPL games are not scheduled on international weekends. There is some effect on physical conditioning, but really the midweek cup games have far more impact on clubs, to the point that getting knocked out of the cup is sometimes welcomed. Injuries can be a factor but the main point is you're not forcing clubs to play without their superstars. Origin would have to move to stand alone weekends. That's not the biggest deal tbh, but it's not a negotiable component of such a change.

I get where you're coming from with all this. I agree that the premiership doesn't always go to the best team over the entire season and that fptp would do a better job in the regard. I just don't think that's a big enough deal to counteract all the downsides I've listed. Add relegation, an international club circuit and restructure representative footy and then we'll talk. The current system isn't perfect but it's the best we have for our current conditions.

 

[Pomoz]

Its not even close to the same level though. 7 of the 8 games in this last round had something riding on them. In a fptp only 2 of them would have. And that's a good year. That's before you get to the effect it'd have on individual clubs. What would Parra have had to play for after the first month of the comp? 3/4s of the comp will be out by Origin.

Yes there are meaningless games and discarded teams in this system. That's a problem though and your system would emphasize them. Hugely. It's pretty disingenuous to dismiss it as an issue tbh.

Did you mean disingenuous? Not sincere? You know it's OK to disagree sometimes. I think the comeptiveness of games isn't that impacted and you disagree. No big deal and nobody is right or wrong. I think we will never know what would happen because nobody is looking to change what we have.

Playing each other twice would be a step closer to being fair though.

 

[age.s]

Did you mean disingenuous? Not sincere? You know it's OK to disagree sometimes. I think the comeptiveness of games isn't that impacted and you disagree. No big deal and nobody is right or wrong. I think we will never know what would happen because nobody is looking to change what we have.

Playing each other twice would be a step closer to being fair though.

It's not about disagreement. I just didn't think it reasonable to argue that greatly reducing the potential context of the majority of the season's games and clubs was no big deal because it can happen in a minority of cases in the current system. It contrasted with the rest of your post which I thought was reasonable, even if I'm not personally a fan of fptp.