Pacifique X111

[Foreign Legion]

FIRST DEVELOPMENT CLINIC IN NOUMEA



November 30th 2019 will forever be a significant date for Pacifique Treize, with the very first development clinic held at Stade Pentecost in Noumea. Headed up by Pacifique Treize Director Manuel Jalabert, the technical delivery of the session was conducted Damien Quinn who formerly played for French side Lezignan in the Elite One competition and also for Toowoomba Clydesdales and Wynnum Seagulls in the Intrust Super Cup. Quinn is a highly touted coach in Australia and his experience in delivering the coaching session to eager players aged 15-17 was invaluable.

Commenting on his experience in Noumea, Quinn stated “It was great to be in Noumea and to work with these young players. There was certainly a lot of natural talent on display and I believe that with further education in the game these players and many more in New Caledonia will grow to love rugby league. The athleticism of the players suits the physical demands of rugby league and the Pacifique Treize development plans will further assist the players and the game as a whole move forward here”.
https://pacifique13.com/en/2020/03/05/firstdevelopmentclinic/


FIRST DEVELOPMENT CLINIC IN NOUMEA



November 30, 2019 will forever be an important date for Pacifique Treize, with the very first development clinic at the Pentecost Stadium in Noumea. Directed by the director of Pacifique Treize, Manuel Jalabert, the technical performance of the session was led by Damien Quinn who previously played for the French side of Lezignan in the Elite One competition as well as for Toowoomba Clydesdales and Wynnum Seagulls in the Super Cup Intrust. Quinn is a highly touted coach in Australia and his experience in delivering the coaching session to impatient players aged 15 to 17 has been invaluable.

Commenting on his experience in Noumea, Quinn said “It was great to be in Noumea and to work with these young players. There were certainly a lot of natural talents on display and I believe that with further training in the game, these players and many others in New Caledonia will love the rugby league. The athleticism of the players suits the physical demands of the rugby league and the development plans for Pacific Treize will further help the players and the game as a whole to progress here. ”

 

[siv]

So we have
- PNG Hunters
- Pacifica XIII
- Fiji Silktails
- Auckland Warriors

Add a few more and we have Pacific League

 

[jim_57]

So we have
- PNG Hunters
- Pacifica XIII
- Fiji Silktails
- Auckland Warriors

Add a few more and we have Pacific League

You could have 12 teams across NZ & the Pacific and it would probably still not be feasible to have a Pacific League. Sounds great and all but it would much cheaper for all teams involved to be based around Australian comps.

 

[adamkungl]

All technicalities and "fine print" aside for a moment, I have a more practical question: Do young New Caledonians actually grow up dreaming of playing for France? I have a feeling they don't.

As you say, they compete independently in other sports and have also done so in Rugby League during their brief existence. So all those getting carried away that they will be stampeding each other to pledge their allegiance to France, might be disappointed.

It may be a Cook Islands / NZ -like situation where they might choose either way.
As I understand things NC is generally pro-France and voted against independence as recently as 2018.

 

[greenBV4]

Great news!

The 2 state comps are expanding nicely and might soon have a better spread of teams than the NRL

Since both leagues are moving away from just having teams within the state maybe one day we will see them become conferences for a unified second division comp? Could be a way to initially add in and test nrl expansion sides and wouldnt be as big a step down for any struggling current NRL clubs as if it were done properly could generate a lot of interest, especially with all these pacific island teams

 

[langpark]

It may be a Cook Islands / NZ -like situation where they might choose either way.
As I understand things NC is generally pro-France and voted against independence as recently as 2018.

I don't think the NZ-Cook Island comparison doesn't really fit here. NC is quite a unique case.

Most if not all the Cook Islands players, were born and/or grew up in NZ. So most grow up wanting to play for NZ and have Cook Islands as their "Plan B" - Nicoll-Klokstad being the most recent example. Played his earlier days for Cooks, now that he's good enough for NZ, has switched allegiance.

Most NC boys will never have even visited France in their lives, so their hearts won't exactly be beating for France, no matter what referendum etc. suggests.

In fact, the more I think about it, I am almost certain that NC will need to set up a national team. An NC player will not be good enough for the France national team any time soon, so it is good for them to have something more realistic to strive for. Also, playing with other Tier 3 nations in the Asia-Pacific regions (Vanuatu, Solomon Islands, Philippines etc.) will be good for development too.

 

[adamkungl]

I'd certainly be all for another pacific nation team to add in, and happy to take soccer's lead on whether they should compete separately to France.
Any player eligible for NC would definitely be eligible for France - whether they take that option will be an individual matter.

Future Oceania?

A - Australia, New Zealand, Tonga, Fiji
B- Samoa, PNG, Cook Islands, Vanuatu
C - Niue, New Caledonia, Solomon Islands, French Polynesia

 

[langpark]

Looks good, only Vanuatu, would be far more suited to Group C. 3-4-4 is probably more realistic, with Fiji joining Group B. I cannot see French Polynesia forming a team any time soon.

 

[siv]

I'd certainly be all for another pacific nation team to add in, and happy to take soccer's lead on whether they should compete separately to France.
Any player eligible for NC would definitely be eligible for France - whether they take that option will be an individual matter.

Future Oceania?

A - Australia, New Zealand, Tonga, Fiji
B- Samoa, PNG, Cook Islands, Vanuatu
C - Niue, New Caledonia, Solomon Islands, French Polynesia

I would swap Niue and Vanuatu

 

[langpark]

I would swap Niue and Vanuatu

Fair point. I just think there is a bit of a drop-off after PNG, Fiji, Samoa. Cook Islands are noticably weaker than them but can still be reasonably competitive. Then, after the Cooks, there's a significant drop in standard.

 

[Perth Tiger]

I'd certainly be all for another pacific nation team to add in, and happy to take soccer's lead on whether they should compete separately to France.
Any player eligible for NC would definitely be eligible for France - whether they take that option will be an individual matter.

Future Oceania?

A - Australia, New Zealand, Tonga, Fiji
B- Samoa, PNG, Cook Islands, Vanuatu
C - Niue, New Caledonia, Solomon Islands, French Polynesia

Should include USA (Hawaii)

 

[adamkungl]

Looks good, only Vanuatu, would be far more suited to Group C. 3-4-4 is probably more realistic, with Fiji joining Group B. I cannot see French Polynesia forming a team any time soon.

I would swap Niue and Vanuatu

I'm talking quite a few years down the track with some pathways growth and improvement
And they would swap themselves via P&R

 

[adamkungl]

Should include USA (Hawaii)

Well - one of my crackpot ideas is for the Americas Cup to pyramid promote into the Oceania B. So that would be great to see.

 

[langpark]

Practicality and viability has to come first. USA-Canada-Jamaica is a much more affordable option and they are all pretty evenly matched too. No need to mess with that.

 

[adamkungl]

Practicality and viability has to come first. USA-Canada-Jamaica is a much more affordable option and they are all pretty evenly matched too. No need to mess with that.

to be blunt, I don't think there's much there to mess with.
It's a comp played in poorly lit highschool parks watched by more aussies on a bad livestream than actual attending fans.
South American teams are coming through that will be able to fill the gap left by the promoted team.

USA (before) and Jamaica (now) are both World Cup teams, give them a shot at some quality teams more than once every 4 years. It's the only way they'll improve. Let them host games, starting with Hawaii. USA had a really good crack last start against Cook Islands despite the loss, it was an entertaining game.

Finances can be made to work - USA sent a 9s team out here, Jamaica has gone to Wales for games. 1 team travelling across the pacific every 2 years isn't gonna break the bank. These are the kind of things the game needs to tackle if it wants to grow.


Look at Union now - teams like Japan are rising with nowhere to go, and the Pacific islands are being squandered while League takes advantage of a fairer system. A worldwide P&R system lets growth occur naturally.

The winner of Americas Cup 2022 should be promoted to Oceania/Pacific B in 2024.
AND the winner of MEA Cup 2022 should be promoted to Europe B 2024.

 

[Perth Tiger]

Practicality and viability has to come first. USA-Canada-Jamaica is a much more affordable option and they are all pretty evenly matched too. No need to mess with that.

The reality is the only way the comps will begin and survive is if the governing body can get enough sponsorship, broadcast or ticketing revenue to self sustain and ideally be profitable.

The majority if not all of the islands can not support this level of competition, particularly if we expect professional or semi professional players to take part. USA is the obvious candidate to try and at least raise some revenue through Hawaii.

However, I still believe making it Oceania is limiting and any regional comp should be 'Pacific' and try and include US and Canada and when possible any of the relevant South American teams that come online.

Can still have the Americas regional comps but it would expose the better Americas teams to higher levels of competition

 

[langpark]

Finances can be made to work - USA sent a 9s team out here, Jamaica has gone to Wales for games. 1 team travelling across the pacific every 2 years isn't gonna break the bank. These are the kind of things the game needs to tackle if it wants to grow.

I accept your point about the 3 North American teams getting more exposure to higher ranked opposition. But seriously, please do some research before you write.

Jamaica did not "go" to Wales. They played them in Wakefield, with 100% UK heritage-based players. Jamaica could not afford a trip across the atlantic for a friendly match. I think 99% of Rugby League fans, grossly underestimate how little money there actually is in Rugby League outside of NRL. https://www.rlef.eu.com/articles/1343/jamaica-name-squad-for-historic-internationals

Also, people here seem to be underestimating just how remote some of these pacific islands are! Sure, Brisbane-Noumea may have a direct flight, but anything outside of that and it starts to get messy. Let alone flying teams from USA and Jamaica to some of these pacific islands and vice versa. A logistical nightmare and last but not least, EXPENSIVE!

Let's say on a good day, to get one player from Kingston to Noumea, it's going to cost 3 grand. Multiplied by a (skeleton) squad of 20, $60,000 not even factoring in accommodation and any of the other costs.

Now, ask yourself, would you rather that enormous amount be spent on this one-off match? Or invested into the grassroots of Jamaica? I know what I would prefer.

Many fans are quick to flip their lids saying: "What a disgrace! Not enough international matches!" and quite often the very same fans are sayingQ "What a disgrace! Not enough investment in the grassroots!" It is not a perfect world, the money not unlimited, so we need to prioritise.

So for the meantime, yes, keep Canada-USA-Jamaica playing each other regularly. There are other ways go strengthen your national team and having Wolfpack and the Aces' pathways there could be the best formula.

 

[greenBV4]

I accept your point about the 3 North American teams getting more exposure to higher ranked opposition. But seriously, please do some research before you write.

Jamaica did not "go" to Wales. They played them in Wakefield, with 100% UK heritage-based players. Jamaica could not afford a trip across the atlantic for a friendly match. I think 99% of Rugby League fans, grossly underestimate how little money there actually is in Rugby League outside of NRL. https://www.rlef.eu.com/articles/1343/jamaica-name-squad-for-historic-internationals

Also, people here seem to be underestimating just how remote some of these pacific islands are! Sure, Brisbane-Noumea may have a direct flight, but anything outside of that and it starts to get messy. Let alone flying teams from USA and Jamaica to some of these pacific islands and vice versa. A logistical nightmare and last but not least, EXPENSIVE!

Let's say on a good day, to get one player from Kingston to Noumea, it's going to cost 3 grand. Multiplied by a (skeleton) squad of 20, $60,000 not even factoring in accommodation and any of the other costs.

Now, ask yourself, would you rather that enormous amount be spent on this one-off match? Or invested into the grassroots of Jamaica? I know what I would prefer.

Many fans are quick to flip their lids saying: "What a disgrace! Not enough international matches!" and quite often the very same fans are sayingQ "What a disgrace! Not enough investment in the grassroots!" It is not a perfect world, the money not unlimited, so we need to prioritise.

So for the meantime, yes, keep Canada-USA-Jamaica playing each other regularly. There are other ways go strengthen your national team and having Wolfpack and the Aces' pathways there could be the best formula.

Im honestly surprised that state cup clubs will be able to afford regular flights out of Australia to Fiji, PNG and Noumea on a weekly basis - whats the arrangement for away teams for these club going to be (or already in place for the hunters), do the home team pay or is the qrl/nswrl paying?

Also just realised, if this Pacifique XIII team gets up and running will it be the first time in an Australian RL competition that we will have a team flying from outside of Australia to another country outside of Australia to play (Port Moresby - Noumea), trivial and mostly meaningless but still interesting!

 

[deluded pom?]

Im honestly surprised that state cup clubs will be able to afford regular flights out of Australia to Fiji, PNG and Noumea on a weekly basis - whats the arrangement for away teams for these club going to be (or already in place for the hunters), do the home team pay or is the qrl/nswrl paying?

Also just realised, if this Pacifique XIII team gets up and running will it be the first time in an Australian RL competition that we will have a team flying from outside of Australia to another country outside of Australia to play (Port Moresby - Noumea), trivial and mostly meaningless but still interesting!

It’ll be two matches outside of Australia not three. PNG Hunters and the proposed Pacifique X111 would be in QLD whilst the Silktails would be competing in NSW.

 

[adamkungl]

I accept your point about the 3 North American teams getting more exposure to higher ranked opposition. But seriously, please do some research before you write.

Jamaica did not "go" to Wales. They played them in Wakefield, with 100% UK heritage-based players. Jamaica could not afford a trip across the atlantic for a friendly match. I think 99% of Rugby League fans, grossly underestimate how little money there actually is in Rugby League outside of NRL. https://www.rlef.eu.com/articles/1343/jamaica-name-squad-for-historic-internationals

Also, people here seem to be underestimating just how remote some of these pacific islands are! Sure, Brisbane-Noumea may have a direct flight, but anything outside of that and it starts to get messy. Let alone flying teams from USA and Jamaica to some of these pacific islands and vice versa. A logistical nightmare and last but not least, EXPENSIVE!

Let's say on a good day, to get one player from Kingston to Noumea, it's going to cost 3 grand. Multiplied by a (skeleton) squad of 20, $60,000 not even factoring in accommodation and any of the other costs.

Now, ask yourself, would you rather that enormous amount be spent on this one-off match? Or invested into the grassroots of Jamaica? I know what I would prefer.

Many fans are quick to flip their lids saying: "What a disgrace! Not enough international matches!" and quite often the very same fans are sayingQ "What a disgrace! Not enough investment in the grassroots!" It is not a perfect world, the money not unlimited, so we need to prioritise.

So for the meantime, yes, keep Canada-USA-Jamaica playing each other regularly. There are other ways go strengthen your national team and having Wolfpack and the Aces' pathways there could be the best formula.

The Jamaican team will be mostly UK-based professional and semi-professional players, as you suggest.
And my suggestion was for them (or whoever the 2022 winner might be) to compete in Oceania B, in 2024. Maybe even 2026.
So we're looking at a return trip to from England, for most of the team, to NZ, with 2 years to prepare, not island-hopping the tiny airports of the Pacific from Jamaica. These are World Cup playing nations, these are logistical and financial goals that have to be reached simply to qualify and attend.

It's a bit of a catch-22 : we need more money in the game, but we need to spend money on higher profile events to be able to attract that money. Let's say Jamaica continue to improve and attract some funding from their government and bigger sponsors - whats going to bring in more funding, playing serious teams in Auckland and Sydney stadiums broadcast to 7 countries, or playing nobodies in a Jacksonville high school, broadcast to no one?
And of course, I'm hoping the 2021 WC is a whole lot more profitable than the 2017 disappointment so the IRL has the money to fund some of these projects.

Its great that we now have regular American and African tournaments, but over the next few years we need to keep growing and improving them.