Pathetic !!!

[Willow]

Thanks Bronco, I found it. The SMH article also says Brown was waving his arms about and struck Barrett accidentially.

Unfortunately, this will go through the media wringer now.

 

[Willow]

Bronco: "I'll have to watch it to get real confirmation"
I dont think you'll see anything on TV Bronco. So far its just hearsay and eye witness accounts.

Nevertheless,something did happen and it was a pressure situation. But whether it was finger, or a slap or something worthy of calling in the mums and dads remains to be seen.

 

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[Willow]

Bronco, Its not on my tape but good luck.

 

[CyberKev]

Interesting one... I'm not averse to seeing the Dragons in the news, but I would prefer that they were making headlines for more positive reasons.

I don't think actions like Brown's come across all that edifying on camera, but I suppose it is good to see that he is keeping the passion alive at Kogarah. There must be something about the 'St' identifier, as St George is starting to look eerily reminiscent of bloody St Kilda of late and, the non-AFL literate among this readership, wouldn't need a translator to clue them in on the negative connotations implicit in this statement. Ironically, the last time I can recall a coach blatantly berating players on the sideline in such fashion was during the nineties, when then St Kilda boss Kenny Sheldon physical accosted one of his young players over the boundary fence (during the match).

I agree with comments made above that the Dragons are suffering from a recent history of letting too many quality players leave. I also agree with assertions that the club has allowed itself to get a mile removed from the intrinsic qualities required to be a succesful outfit in the current climate. I strongly suspect thatthe latter flaw is clearly associated with the former one, but the only certain thing is that there are no easy fixes on the horizon.

The jurymust still be out on Brown's capacity for succeeding in this coaching caper. It is likely that Nathan would have been better served (personally) in seeking a coaching gig elsewhere, but such jobs are hardly in surplus and he can't be blamed for taking this gig. If nothing else, he has clearly put the team on notice that such subpar showings will not be readily tolerated. At the end of the day, it is up to the team to respond to this debacle (and the associated fallout) maturely. Even if they have to lift their game to spite Brown rather than honour him (ala Bulldogs under Wok Ryan), then at least it will be better for the Saints fans than the 'ongoing aimless drift' that we've been subjected to for some seasons now!

RL is a hard game for hard men. Some errant types wrongly conflate this truism with the one-off pieces of pugilistic showmanship that the likes of Tallis routinely display due to problems with self control. That's minimalist nothing stuff that detracts from the game and is unabashedly extraneous toits needs. The real hard men of the game have made their names by being able to respond to adversity, to lift those around them when a lift was required, to restore pride when pride was impugned. When the self-serving bleatings of thesanctimonius peter-out and the media circus inevitably departs Brown for fresher, more immediate 'entertainment' climes; one can but hope that the Dragons will have enough hard men among them to begin the long overdue restoration process.

CyberKev

 

[imported_midas]

Brownie was quoted on radio this morning as saying he blamed his "slapping" of Barrett on the heat of the moment and extreme frustration.
Haven,t seen it yet but that sounds sorta official.

 

[Willow]

Kev: I agree with comments made above that the Dragons are suffering from a recent history of letting too many quality players leave.

I think brianxxx mentioned Justin Smith as well. When we lost that player, I said 'ouch' because I knew he was a good prospect and one player we should have been hanging onto.

But unfortunately, not a great deal could be done about the player drain of recent years. The JV concessions were over and the club simply had to work hard to get under the salary cap.Right now, wecould use players like Hookey, Treacy, Bartrim and Ainscough. But the fact is, they werequite rightly expecting to get well paid for their experience and this was squeezing the cap restrictions. There are other players missing as well but if you look at each case individually, there's usually a reason why it happened.

We havent really signed up anyone of note to replace this player drain either but once again, the club was restrained. The potential signing of Brett Kimmorley was stimied by the Sharks and Kimmorley's insistence that he receive special treatment. But it was also born out the fact that Saints were at the limit of what was allowed under the cap.

Not that they didnt consider doing a shifty but at the end of the day, they deemed that it wasnt worth the risk. On that point, they've probably been vindicated. Although I do concede there is a near valid view that rorting the cap is a legimate form of doing business - but this view is usually shared by those persons who we would normally refer to as being 'colourful racing identities.'

When we break it down, it does appear the club had a case for letting many players go. The questionis the amount of players that departed and I agree that one or two should have been hung onto.

 

[Willow]

midas, the Dragons official site also has Brown saying he gave Barrett 'a clip'.
He said that he asks the players to perform under pressure and then he lost his cool under pressure which he concedes isnt the right thing to do.

It appears that the matter is being dealt with in house.

It remains to be seen if this will have a positive or negative effect on the club coming into next weekend but imo, the biggest problems were happening on the field and not on the sideline.

 

[CyberKev]

Legend

The bottom line is Saints do not have a winning culture and they are in real strife IMO.

What counts as a winning culture?

If its related to winning premierships, then yes, the Saints do not have a winning culture, but they're hardly on their pat malone there.

If its related to being ultra-competitive by constantly making the finals, then yes they do, but then so too do Cronulla.

If its related to winning more often than you lose, then the Dragons probably get over the line on this one too, but such a definition would appear dubious.

The Saints clearly have problems with the incumbent playing group and, most likely, recent administrations, but at what point can this be classified as not constituting a 'winning culture'.

I don't think these airy-fairy buzz terms are particularly instructive, much less helpful.

CyberKev

 

[Ozbash2]

we get the game again on thursday so will do the capcha thaing for you. (the papers will have beaten us tho ).

i,m not actually blaming browny for doing his balls,but he couldve picked a better place. specially for young firman..

 

[legend]

Kev, let me qualify that statement by saying they have forgotten or lost the art on how to consistently tough out big matches and come away with the points. Sides like Newcastle, Brisbane, New Zealand, Canterbury and the Roosters all have this culture, hence their position on theladder.

Saints have suffered some demoralising losses in recent years and I believe this has had a profoundly negative effect on the team, hence many players leaving the club. I remember a few seasons back Barrett was on the verge of walking out but Saints met his demands.

Back to the coaching area. The Roosters made a quantum leap in the hiring of Stuart with immediate results and I think Saints tried to imitate the Roosters but Ricky had two main advantages. He coached the Bulldogs Jersey Flegg side to victory and he was tactically the smartest halfback since Sterling. Brown is neither and has never won a premiership as a player and I think that helps. Farrar, Hagan, Stuart, Simmons, Meninga, Anderson, Langmack, Lamb and Gould all won premierships as a player and although it's not a pre-requiste for success, it does play a part. IMO, if they want success, Daley should be the coach, not Brown. I also think Brown is being pulled in several different directions because he has too many "assistants". IMHO, there is no quick fix for the Dragons problems. They are ill disciplined, undermanned and inexperienced in the coaching arena and finally, the expectations of the fans is an enormous burden. They may run a successful leagues club but there looks to be massive problems with the football club. I could also understand if this was an isolated incident but infighting within the Dragons is nothing new. Weren't Thompson and Treacy involved in a punch up with each other in the foyer of the leagues club a few seasons back?

 

[Willow]

"Daley should be the coach"
My understanding is that Daley has a number of media committments. He came on a consultant because thats all that time would permit.

"Weren't Thompson and Treacy involved in a punch up... ?"
It was Thompson and Hart on one incident plus Treacy and Bartrim ina separate incident.

In-fighting is something that exists within every club and there are plenty ofexamples that could be pulled out of the vault. Not sure of the relevance of a fight that happened years ago between players who now play for other clubs, some in the UK.

 

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[imported_Noodles]

The Brown incident happened pretty close to where I was sitting. It wasn't a Roy Masters' style slap, it was more of a push with an open hand. Brown was very emotional at the time and the crowd around him were cheering him on as he was getting stuck into them which just made things worse. Either way it looked a little demeaning to Barrett, and hearing quotes on the radio today, Barrett let him know soon after the game. However from what is being said, think they are ready to move on. What I question of this incident was the timing. They had played pretty bad in the first half, but they had now levelled the scores and I thought at the time we would go on to win the game. This incident didn't seem to help anyone. Barrett and Firman seemed to go in to their shells a little, and Thommo started trying too hard. I thought that even before the incident he was trying too hard. After that our game went to pieces. I don't think Brownie will do that again. I reckon this game will help us re-focus on playing football and in the long run we will benefit from what happened. There's no way I'd be deserting them to watch a movie on Pay TV - no movie could replace the emotions experienced the weekend. I'd just like to experience that happy winning emotion a bit more

 

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[imported_Noodles]

Infuzer - what point are you trying to make

 

[imported_Gorilla]

Love tap: photo at Fox sports http://foxsports.news.com.au/story/0,8659,6280994-23214,00.html looks pretty well directed, justno clarity about force (apart from the slight facila rearrangement). A disappointing day all round

, did Manly score five tries after this incident ? Maggie

 

[Infuzer]

What point am I trying to make?
Gee mate, I thought it was pretty simple, I didn't see the Brown slapping incident... umm isn't that the way the topic had shifted up until my post?
And what was your point asking me that question?

 

[imported_Noodles]

Fair enough.

I thought you were trying to point out that even though a number of different people saw it, and both Nathan Brown and Trent Barrett have both commented on it publicly, becuase you didn't see it on a TV replay, it still might not have happened.


I think most have come to the conclusion that the incident did occur and had moved on.

Most posts we get here usually add to the discussion taking place, but I suppose that doesn't mean all posts have to.

 

[Infuzer]

Well seeings that my post didn'tadd to the discussion taking place I'll go ahead and remove it from the thread.
I hope that makes your paranoid little heart happy.

I wouldn't want you to have a coronary over a "nothing" post.