Peter Beatte NRL 360 - expansion

[titoelcolombiano]

Once again, the philosophy is fine! Taking risks whilst still averting disaster is wise. The expansion should occur but not at the cost of the games heritage and advantage over other codes *(the Sydney clubs )

Other way around mate - you can have the heritage and tradition of the Sydney clubs but not at the expense of expansion and growth of the game. Not all Sydney clubs are of equal size and equal value to the NRL

 

[tri_colours]

You are so wrong!

 

[tri_colours]

Because I call you on your BS?



Yeah mate, heaps of fans. The stats really back you on that one.

Average attendance:
1999: 8566
1998: 11093
1997: 11713
1996: 10963
1995: 11514
1994: 15116
1993: 12264
1992: 10500
1991: 15297
1990: 9858
1989: 6547
1988: 9227
1987: 9054

Pretty appauling reading isn't it? Thank God they aren't around taking up a place in the comp anymore. BTW those years that I posted are their best run with crowds - lol



Please do mention them...

My tangents? Is this coming from the guy that can't answer a straight question? Oh and by the way, stats and facts have all the credibility in the world.

I don't know that those figures are that much worse then what other clubs were getting at that time.

All your examples bar one involve Brisbane. Most clubs would average better than 20/22k against Brisbane,

The Melbourne v NZ game is usually an Anzac match. The two Sydney clubs get usually get near 40k for that game.

Just like everyone else I'm all for expansion but I think Australia or National teams should come 1st!

 

[Stallion]

Because I call you on your BS?



Yeah mate, heaps of fans. The stats really back you on that one.

Average attendance:
1999: 8566
1998: 11093
1997: 11713
1996: 10963
1995: 11514
1994: 15116
1993: 12264
1992: 10500
1991: 15297
1990: 9858
1989: 6547
1988: 9227
1987: 9054

Pretty appauling reading isn't it? Thank God they aren't around taking up a place in the comp anymore. BTW those years that I posted are their best run with crowds - lol



Please do mention them...

My tangents? Is this coming from the guy that can't answer a straight question? Oh and by the way, stats and facts have all the credibility in the world.

You fool. You don't know the circumstance of when, what and where for such matches. Are you aware a News Ltd appointed administrator made the Bears play a home game in Brisbane in their final year? Besides you are ignoring a very dodgy number of teams(courtesy of superleague fiasco agreement ) impacting on these great clubs in this competition that you show no respect for! It's clear you have no idea of the immense support these longstanding clubs enjoy around Australia. That's where the dummy stuff comes in. Over 100 years of relevance in a supreme and envied competition and you come up with that crap! Even with the figures showing up well in 1994 , you can't figure out that the support is widespread. This support is often dormant and latent but it still exists . And you continue to deride such great clubs. Pathetic!

 

[LeagueXIII]

Other way around mate - you can have the heritage and tradition of the Sydney clubs but not at the expense of expansion and growth of the game. Not all Sydney clubs are of equal size and equal value to the NRL

No one wants that, prefer the best of both.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

No one wants that, prefer the best of both.

I prefer clubs be removed from the NRL that are clearly holding the game back. That goes for Sydney and non-Sydney clubs.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

You fool. You don't know the circumstance of when, what and where for such matches. Are you aware a News Ltd appointed administrator made the Bears play a home game in Brisbane in their final year? Besides you are ignoring a very dodgy number of teams(courtesy of superleague fiasco agreement ) impacting on these great clubs in this competition that you show no respect for! It's clear you have no idea of the immense support these longstanding clubs enjoy around Australia. That's where the dummy stuff comes in. Over 100 years of relevance in a supreme and envied competition and you come up with that crap! Even with the figures showing up well in 1994 , you can't figure out that the support is widespread. This support is often dormant and latent but it still exists . And you continue to deride such great clubs. Pathetic!

I understand the circumstances around the SL war and the bears administration from 1995 to 1999. If their support is so widespread, then how do you explain their poor crowds in the early 90's when the game was on a high and the bears had one of their best teams ever?

What about the 80's?

70's?

Not a lot of evidence of widespread support and notoriety

 

[titoelcolombiano]

I don't know that those figures are that much worse then what other clubs were getting at that time.

All your examples bar one involve Brisbane. Most clubs would average better than 20/22k against Brisbane,

The Melbourne v NZ game is usually an Anzac match. The two Sydney clubs get usually get near 40k for that game.

Just like everyone else I'm all for expansion but I think Australia or National teams should come 1st!

Brisbane's top drawing opponents are: Melbourne, Warriors, Cowboys and the Titans. So yes, whilst Brisbane draw well against most opponents, the stats show a starkly different story to the one Stallion is peddling that the Sydney teams are the be all and end all of the comp and nothing else really rates a mention.

You do realise that AAMI can't hold 40k right? And yes, you are right the Sydney Anzac clash is the one game that consistently holds up in the top 10 crowds each year. All of the others are between non-sydney clubs, again, this was mentioned because stallion keeps repeating that the biggest and most attractive rivalries in the game are all-Sydney rivalries, this is not true.

Agree with your last sentence - Stallion is saying that the current NRL Sydney clubs should come first because they are the be all and end all of RL. He also thinks that all Sydney NRL clubs are the same size - lol.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

I don't know that those figures are that much worse then what other clubs were getting at that time.

In terms of average crowds:

1998 - Bears were 16th in the league
1998 - Bears were 7th in the league
1997 - Bears were 4th in the ARL comp and had an average lower than 5 SL clubs so 9th
1996 - Bears were 10th in the league
1995 - Bears were 10th in the league
1994 - Bears were 5th in the league (in one of their best ever drawing seasons - lol)
1993 - Bears were 10th in the league
1992 - Bears were 10th in the league
1991 - Bears were 3rd in the league (in their best ever season crowd wise)
1990 - Bears were 9th in the league

I won't go back any further as it just gets worse for them. The above is their greatest decade crowd-wise with one of their best ever sides assembled. So, no they were terrible at drawing crowds.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

You fool. You don't know the circumstance of when, what and where for such matches. Are you aware a News Ltd appointed administrator made the Bears play a home game in Brisbane in their final year?

Aren't you always claiming that the bears have widespread notoriety? Shouldn't this mean that they should be able to draw a crowd anywhere? lol

 

[Stallion]

Brisbane's top drawing opponents are: Melbourne, Warriors, Cowboys and the Titans. So yes, whilst Brisbane draw well against most opponents, the stats show a starkly different story to the one Stallion is peddling that the Sydney teams are the be all and end all of the comp and nothing else really rates a mention.

You do realise that AAMI can't hold 40k right? And yes, you are right the Sydney Anzac clash is the one game that consistently holds up in the top 10 crowds each year. All of the others are between non-sydney clubs, again, this was mentioned because stallion keeps repeating that the biggest and most attractive rivalries in the game are all-Sydney rivalries, this is not true.

Agree with your last sentence - Stallion is saying that the current NRL Sydney clubs should come first because they are the be all and end all of RL. He also thinks that all Sydney NRL clubs are the same size - lol.

What you continue to fail in is that there is absolute support for additional expansion clubs but you prefer to weaken the core reason why this competition flourishes! The Sydney clubs!

 

[Stallion]

I understand the circumstances around the SL war and the bears administration from 1995 to 1999. If their support is so widespread, then how do you explain their poor crowds in the early 90's when the game was on a high and the bears had one of their best teams ever?

What about the 80's?

70's?

Not a lot of evidence of widespread support and notoriety

The widespread support is massive and extensive for all Sydney clubs due to tv coverage of 70s,80s & 90s. This is fact. You just won't acknowledge reality or have no grasp of reality. It's convenient for someone like you to ignore clubs that have been viewed and supported for decades and dismiss them as irrelevant. Once again, shame on you!

 

[MugaB]

Jesus give a break you two
You're both nuts, its broken record time again

Bears have a good brand, built a stadium to use in central coast prior to their failed merger, so reasons why bears are there are plenty, mostly its their decision, now im a fan of the bears from youth (but ive been a Penrith panthers fans from 89 onwards mostly), and if/when the bears return to top flight, if they ever do. they will be a strong presence in Gosford, whilst having a few games a year at NSO.

I'd love to see more teams in expansion, with Perth, Adelaide and 2-3 more QLD teams, PNG too, if there are any sydney teams that fall away top flight by the wayside which may happen, (e.g jets in 80s) then so be it, but to have the NRL cull or merge them not going to happen, they will always present themselves as the good guy in these situations from now on, and have learnt from the mistakes of the SL/ARL war, they won't be pointed out as the administration that led to the "insert club here's" demise anymore, theyll let clubs hang themselves, unless its a Brisbane, Newcastle or Melbourne

Enough with the crowd figures it points out absolutely nothing, the clubs we got now are here, if we can strive for more, then good, im personally hoping we see relocations of these existing brands push clubs out of Sydney into new territory/markets, except in QLD, where there is strong following for their intrust teams already so promoting them would be better for the comp, rather than having a sydney club move there, in 1967 the cronulla sharks, penrith panthers and wentworthville magpies were bidding to enter NSWRL, wenty was too close to parra, and the other 2 clubs were admitted. These 3 clubs were all lower grade clubs to be promoted to the top flight, Redcliffe Dolphins, Png Hunters might get promoted this way even tho its 50+ years later.

i can see roosters, tigers or eels in another city easily from relocations, even brand new teams too, but not from culling/mergers?

My favourite year was when 4 teams came into the comp, that 1st game in Auckland vs Brisbane was amazing, new team, new country, new adventures, 25 years later they've finally embraced their old colors again for this year, Perth Western Reds, South Qld Chrushers, and North Qld Cowboys, great year for doggies fans hehe

Older sydney brands could still can have games at their old grounds, without alienating current core fans too

 

[titoelcolombiano]

The widespread support is massive and extensive for all Sydney clubs due to tv coverage of 70s,80s & 90s. This is fact. You just won't acknowledge reality or have no grasp of reality. It's convenient for someone like you to ignore clubs that have been viewed and supported for decades and dismiss them as irrelevant. Once again, shame on you!

I've just given you figures that proves otherwise. Answer the question....

what's your reasoning behind the bears' poor crowds in the early 90's? In the 80's and in the 70's?

 

[Stallion]

Jesus give a break you two
You're both nuts, its broken record time again

Bears have a good brand, built a stadium to use in central coast prior to their failed merger, so reasons why bears are there are plenty, mostly its their decision, now im a fan of the bears from youth (but ive been a Penrith panthers fans from 89 onwards mostly), and if/when the bears return to top flight, if they ever do. they will be a strong presence in Gosford, whilst having a few games a year at NSO.

I'd love to see more teams in expansion, with Perth, Adelaide and 2-3 more QLD teams, PNG too, if there are any sydney teams that fall away top flight by the wayside which may happen, (e.g jets in 80s) then so be it, but to have the NRL cull or merge them not going to happen, they will always present themselves as the good guy in these situations from now on, and have learnt from the mistakes of the SL/ARL war, they won't be pointed out as the administration that led to the "insert club here's" demise anymore, theyll let clubs hang themselves, unless its a Brisbane, Newcastle or Melbourne

Enough with the crowd figures it points out absolutely nothing, the clubs we got now are here, if we can strive for more, then good, im personally hoping we see relocations of these existing brands push clubs out of Sydney into new territory/markets, except in QLD, where there is strong following for their intrust teams already so promoting them would be better for the comp, rather than having a sydney club move there, i can see roosters, tigers or eels in another city easily, even brand new teams too, but no culling/mergers? My favourite year was when 4 teams came into the comp, that 1st game in Auckland vs Brisbane was amazing, new team, new country, new adventures, 25 years later they've finally embraced their old colors again for this year, Perth Western Reds, South Qld Chrushers, and North Qld Cowboys, great year for doggies fans hehe

Older sydney brands could still can have games at their old grounds, without alienating current core fans too

Most of what you have stated is valid. Relocations are not the answer although the Bears is one that gains a lost area and brings in a new area. Otherwise additional clubs are the way to go. It's pretty simple but not for some.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

What you continue to fail in is that there is absolute support for additional expansion clubs

Acknowledged (I've actually acknowledged this many times so no failing here)

but you prefer to weaken the core reason why this competition flourishes! The Sydney clubs!

No, poor performing clubs weaken the core of the NRL and that goes for any club, not just Sydney based ones.

 

[Stallion]

Acknowledged (I've actually acknowledged this many times so no failing here)



No, poor performing clubs weaken the core of the NRL and that goes for any club, not just Sydney based ones.

? That's completely relevant to where they are in the competition and all sorts of variables like the draw, game times, weather etc. Your sweeping statements are just that; SWEEPING STATEMENTS . Not constructive, positive or proactive.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

? That's completely relevant to where they are in the competition and all sorts of variables like the draw, game times, weather etc. Your sweeping statement are just that; SWEEPING STATEMENTS . Not constructive, positive or proactive.

Yes ok, average crowds will fluctuate based on performance, no doubt but the problems is the smaller Sydney clubs. At Manly's best (and they have had some amazing years) they are still only pulling 15k and at their worst they are averaging sub 10k at Brooky. That is appauling and not the standard that we need in the NRL.

The biggger Sydney clubs do much better, even during a poor run. Look at the eels and dogs last year: 11k and 14k in an abysmal season. That is 1k and 4k short of Manly's all time peak. At their best, these to giants of the game will easily average above 20k, especially with WSS. That tells you all you need to know. Are you still going to deny that there are bigger and smaller Sydney clubs? Or shall we keep pretending like they are all the same size with the same fan base and equal ''widespread notoriety''?

 

[Stallion]

Yes ok, average crowds will fluctuate based on performance, no doubt but the problems is the smaller Sydney clubs. At Manly's best (and they have had some amazing years) they are still only pulling 15k and at their worst they are averaging sub 10k at Brooky. That is appauling and not the standard that we need in the NRL.

The biggger Sydney clubs do much better, even during a poor run. Look at the eels and dogs last year: 11k and 14k in an abysmal season. That is 1k and 4k short of Manly's all time peak. At their best, these to giants of the game will easily average above 20k, especially with WSS. That tells you all you need to know. Are you still going to deny that there are bigger and smaller Sydney clubs? Or shall we keep pretending like they are all the same size with the same fan base and equal ''widespread notoriety''?

You still can't work it out! Can you!? These Sydney clubs have way more widespread support than you could imagine! That's where your ignorance abounds!

 

[The Great Dane]

You still can't work it out! Can you!? These Sydney clubs have way more widespread support than you could imagine! That's where your ignorance abounds!

Got any actual evidence for that?

I reckon that for the most part they don't really have all that much more support then any other team (except for a few exceptions).