Peter V'landys - New NRL/ARLC Chairman

[The_Wookie]

Nrl equity built up so fast afl has had 30 years o financial stability to do it

The AFL didnt really have much in equity until 1998 when Seven gave them extra money for first and last rights bidding, and when it sold Waverly Park in 2001, and then in 2002 when it signed the 500m tv deal.

The NRL has done good with profit but retained a lot of it cash, without much in other actual assets.



Its also worth noting that while the NRL has had great growth in Equity in terms of percentage increase its been matched or beaten by the AFL in real terms

Year	AFL Equity	NRL Equity	Gap
2012​	105.385​	19.349​	86.036​
2013​	123.218​	64.691​	58.527​
2014​	136.558​	84.923​	51.635​
2015​	140.206​	66.269​	73.937​
2016​	124.751​	57.26​	67.491​
2017​	185.095​	51.078​	134.017​
2018​	210.969​	91.679​	119.29​
2019​	238.827​	120.662​	118.165​
2020​	230.449​	95.92​	134.529​
2021​	200.962​	138.977​	61.985​
2022​	314.239​	201.88​	112.359​

concerning so much afl equity is from government grants whilst the nrl was generated from its own activity

Its not concerning at all - that cash injection will be worth plenty to an asset that has depreciated in book value - and will be entirely unencumbered financially soon.

 

[Wb1234]

The AFL didnt really have much in equity until 1998 when Seven gave them extra money for first and last rights bidding, and when it sold Waverly Park in 2001, and then in 2002 when it signed the 500m tv deal.

The NRL has done good with profit but retained a lot of it cash, without much in other actual assets.

View attachment 75774

Its also worth noting that while the NRL has had great growth in Equity in terms of percentage increase its been matched or beaten by the AFL in real terms

Year	AFL Equity	NRL Equity	Gap
2012​	105.385​	19.349​	86.036​
2013​	123.218​	64.691​	58.527​
2014​	136.558​	84.923​	51.635​
2015​	140.206​	66.269​	73.937​
2016​	124.751​	57.26​	67.491​
2017​	185.095​	51.078​	134.017​
2018​	210.969​	91.679​	119.29​
2019​	238.827​	120.662​	118.165​
2020​	230.449​	95.92​	134.529​
2021​	200.962​	138.977​	61.985​
2022​	314.239​	201.88​	112.359​

It’s not concerning at all - that cash injection will be worth plenty to an asset that has depreciated in book value - and will be entirely unencumbered financially soon.

Hasn’t afl had billions more in revenue than the nrl Like 3 or 4 billion over the past ten years or so ?

where’s is gone

a stadium is generally a poor investment

it’s an old stadium who funds the upgrade in ten or so years

the fact vlandys will have similar net assets over such a short time is really stunning

 

[Wb1234]

Born in Melbourne, went to Geelong Grammar.



He definitely tried with the AFL according to John Elliot, but no one was buying - Elliot was the brains behind the only real attempt to start an AFL type superleague and even he thought it better to work with the league if it was possible , and after Macedon in 1985, the clubs and the league were all in together.

Because the AFL locked away the clubs in perennial license agreements from 1986, as opposed to the NSWRL which had yearly - and the NRL STILL has periodic agreements with the clubs - and the AFL itself owned the club IPs, licensing them back to the clubs - there simply wasnt the scope for the clubs to form another league either.

This distinction is described in detail in the book "The Commission we had to have".



They've had AFL rights since 2002. He didnt have a choice before that as the rights had been tied up with Seven since 1998 for C7, which Foxtel ended up carrying until 2002 anyway.



For both clubs this was pre Superleague - pre 1993 when both clubs were under private ownership



This happened in 1992.

Exactly the afl expansion clubs were broke before super league then got the a leg up

couldn’t compete with rl before super league because the game was bulletproof as I’ve been saying

 

[Perth Red]

Hasn’t afl had billions more in revenue than the nrl Like 3 or 4 billion over the past ten years or so ?

where’s is gone

a stadium is generally a poor investment

it’s an old stadium who funds the upgrade in ten or so years

the fact vlandys will have similar net assets over such a short time is really stunning

They’ve invested it in growing the game, grass roots, buying assets, investing in improving club and game facilities and ensuring their clubs have ongoing viability.

I think it’s about $2bill they have earned more than us in last decade or two,

yeh buying a profit making asset worth hundreds of millions in
Land value alone for $200mill is a really bad idea

 

[taipan]

The AFL didnt really have much in equity until 1998 when Seven gave them extra money for first and last rights bidding, and when it sold Waverly Park in 2001, and then in 2002 when it signed the 500m tv deal.

The NRL has done good with profit but retained a lot of it cash, without much in other actual assets.

View attachment 75774

Its also worth noting that while the NRL has had great growth in Equity in terms of percentage increase its been matched or beaten by the AFL in real terms

Year	AFL Equity	NRL Equity	Gap
2012​	105.385​	19.349​	86.036​
2013​	123.218​	64.691​	58.527​
2014​	136.558​	84.923​	51.635​
2015​	140.206​	66.269​	73.937​
2016​	124.751​	57.26​	67.491​
2017​	185.095​	51.078​	134.017​
2018​	210.969​	91.679​	119.29​
2019​	238.827​	120.662​	118.165​
2020​	230.449​	95.92​	134.529​
2021​	200.962​	138.977​	61.985​
2022​	314.239​	201.88​	112.359​

Its not concerning at all - that cash injection will be worth plenty to an asset that has depreciated in book value - and will be entirely unencumbered financially soon.

One thing continually left out in debates of this nature.In 1995 before Super League intruded, the ARL reportedly had cash in the bank (thanks unfortunately to Winfield mainly) of around $25m.Worth around $50m in today's inflationary money.That was all eaten up by greed ,due to the war, players and officials all grabbing a slice.Not only ARL money but Packer money was used.
The code had SFA then, just as the Swans came to the fore , a bonanza for them as officials have admitted.
I find monetary TV revenue comparisons are flawed
and meaningless.Apart from bragging d*ck measuring contests.We all like to say we are the biggest, but scratch the surface.

The whole issue because of said war, impacted likely infrastructure part or ownership, expansion, grassroots development and the list goes on. If the reverse (and its hypothetical) had happened with AFL, how would that have impacted that code?
See no one has come up with ad revenue comparisons for FTA and Pay outlets with regard to the respective codes.That also underlines ones ability to pay X amount or X minus.Pretty clear ch7 gets more.

 

[Wb1234]

They’ve invested it in growing the game, grass roots, buying assets, investing in improving club and game facilities and ensuring their clubs have ongoing viability.

I think it’s about $2bill they have earned more than us in last decade or two,

yeh buying a profit making asset worth hundreds of millions in
Land value alone for $200mill is a really bad idea

Their game hasn’t grown with the new clubs in nsw and qld it’s gone backwards

the nrl is the one ensuring it’s clubs are funded well

and they both have similar net assets

 

[BlueandGold]

The AFL didnt really have much in equity until 1998 when Seven gave them extra money for first and last rights bidding, and when it sold Waverly Park in 2001, and then in 2002 when it signed the 500m tv deal.

The NRL has done good with profit but retained a lot of it cash, without much in other actual assets.

View attachment 75774

Its also worth noting that while the NRL has had great growth in Equity in terms of percentage increase its been matched or beaten by the AFL in real terms

Year	AFL Equity	NRL Equity	Gap
2012​	105.385​	19.349​	86.036​
2013​	123.218​	64.691​	58.527​
2014​	136.558​	84.923​	51.635​
2015​	140.206​	66.269​	73.937​
2016​	124.751​	57.26​	67.491​
2017​	185.095​	51.078​	134.017​
2018​	210.969​	91.679​	119.29​
2019​	238.827​	120.662​	118.165​
2020​	230.449​	95.92​	134.529​
2021​	200.962​	138.977​	61.985​
2022​	314.239​	201.88​	112.359​

Its not concerning at all - that cash injection will be worth plenty to an asset that has depreciated in book value - and will be entirely unencumbered financially soon.

314m - the 80m+ government grant for renovations.

Its a lot close than your letting on.

 

[BlueandGold]

Nrl equity built up so fast afl has had 30 years o financial stability to do it

concerning so much afl equity is from government grants whilst the nrl was generated from its own activity

Exactly.

Not much difference in equity once the AFL do those renovations.

That 80m+ comes straight off the top of that 314m equity.

 

[Wb1234]

Exactly.

Not much difference in equity once the AFL do those renovations.

That 80m+ comes straight off the top of that 314m equity.

Give vlandys a few more years afl is going to be a distant second

what he’s done in five years or less is amazing

 

[BlueandGold]

Give vlandys a few more years afl is going to be a distant second

what he’s done in five years or less is amazing

Pvl is a very good administrator imo.

He just needs to get the broadcast deal right.

He needs to hire some professionals like David Smith did before him.

 

[Perth Red]

Their game hasn’t grown with the new clubs in nsw and qld it’s gone backwards

the nrl is the one ensuring it’s clubs are funded well

and they both have similar net assets

That would depend on what metric of growth you want to use. They have more top tier clubs. They have more people attending games than before, bigger revenue (much bigger) and arguably a stronger media coverage nationally than they had. Participation rates are so fudged by everyone that they are invalid measure These days.

as for the two nrl state expansion clubs, yes I’m sure they wished they were doing better, much better, but they still generate significant revenue in their own right and there are more people attending afl games in those states than there were before them.

afl needed more content to get bigger tv deals. it was either new clubs in expansion areas or more clubs over saturating already adequately covered heartland cities. More content equals more tv dollars. I’d say looking at their continued overall revenue growth they didn’t make a bad decision.

 

[Wb1234]

That would depend on what metric of growth you want to use. They have more top tier clubs. They have more people attending games than before, bigger revenue (much bigger) and arguably a stronger media coverage nationally than they had. Participation rates are so fudged by everyone that they are invalid measure These days.

as for the two nrl state expansion clubs, yes I’m sure they wished they were doing better, much better, but they still generate significant revenue in their own right and there are more people attending afl games in those states than there were before them.

afl needed more content to get bigger tv deals. it was either new clubs in expansion areas or more clubs over saturating already adequately covered heartland cities. More content equals more tv dollars. I’d say looking at their continued overall revenue growth they didn’t make a bad decision.

Growth in tv ratings
Growth in juniors
Crowds

 

[Wb1234]

Pvl is a very good administrator imo.

He just needs to get the broadcast deal right.

He needs to hire some professionals like David Smith did before him.

Anything less than 600 million pa will be an average result

 

[The_Wookie]

One thing continually left out in debates of this nature.In 1995 before Super League intruded, the ARL reportedly had cash in the bank (thanks unfortunately to Winfield mainly) of around $25m.Worth around $50m in today's inflationary money.That was all eaten up by greed ,due to the war, players and officials all grabbing a slice.Not only ARL money but Packer money was used.
The code had SFA then, just as the Swans came to the fore , a bonanza for them as officials have admitted.
I find monetary TV revenue comparisons are flawed
and meaningless.Apart from bragging d*ck measuring contests.We all like to say we are the biggest, but scratch the surface.

The whole issue because of said war, impacted likely infrastructure part or ownership, expansion, grassroots development and the list goes on. If the reverse (and its hypothetical) had happened with AFL, how would that have impacted that code?
See no one has come up with ad revenue comparisons for FTA and Pay outlets with regard to the respective codes.That also underlines ones ability to pay X amount or X minus.Pretty clear ch7 gets more.

Whats the source for the 25m. given the revenue totals of the day, that seems unlikely

 

[BlueandGold]

Anything less than 600 million pa will be an average result

My cutoff for a successful broadcast deal is anything over 550m in cash.

600m+ cash would be out of this world good.

AFL broadcasting deal by the Seven media release is 570m cash a year average over the years of 2025-2031.

 

[Iamback]

My cutoff for a successful broadcast deal is anything over 550m in cash.

600m+ cash would be out of this world good.

AFL broadcasting deal by the Seven media release is 570m cash a year average over the years of 2025-2031.

Yep people have unrealistic expections

Unless the game gets ruined by bringing in quarters

 

[Wb1234]

Whats the source for the 25m. given the revenue totals of the day, that seems unlikely

I heard it was 100 million

My cutoff for a successful broadcast deal is anything over 550m in cash.

600m+ cash would be out of this world good.

AFL broadcasting deal by the Seven media release is 570m cash a year average over the years of 2025-2031.

fair but we smash afl in ratings terms

nine and stan bid 500 million pa for the afl so we know they have the money

fox can’t afford to lose its top rating sport it couldn’t survive imo if a rival got nrl

even with 18 teams afl still had an extra team to sell so the comparison still isn’t on an even basis but it’s closing

 

[BlueandGold]

I heard it was 100 million

fair but we smash afl in ratings terms

nine and stan bid 500 million pa for the afl so we know they have the money

fox can’t afford to lose its top rating sport it couldn’t survive imo if a rival got nrl

even with 18 teams afl still had an extra team to sell so the comparison still isn’t on an even basis but it’s closing

Reality is AFL have many more add spaces, 40% longer game time and 4 Qtrs + 9 games a week.

If we get a comparable cash deal then its a huge win for the game in my eyes.

 

[The Penguin #6.]

.In 1995 before Super League intruded, the ARL reportedly had cash in the bank (thanks unfortunately to Winfield mainly) of around $25m.Worth around $50m in today's inflationary money

If my maths is correct, $25m in 1995 is about the equivalent of, or to put it another way, would have the purchasing power of $100m in today`s money, not $50m.

 

[Perth Red]

Whats the source for the 25m. given the revenue totals of the day, that seems unlikely

It’s probably one of them urban myths that isn’t provable as we dont have annual reports from back then. If the ARL was so flush with cash why would they put two of their new clubs in a difficult position by making them pay all travel costs?