Phil Gould's comments on racism and code-hopping

[Spot On]

Has this media been positive? Has it suggested that Falou and Hunt have chosen another code because they thought it was better?

BP have gained plenty of media exposure too lately ... they must be loving it heh?

No, I don't think even the press in Melbourne has been heralding the signings as a big coup for AFL ... other way around. It's put most fans, players and officials offside.

As mentioned, Gould gives sympathy to someone who racially slurs teams-mates, but wants to punt a code-hopper instantly. Absolutely disgusting priorities.

Kids will see Hunt and Falou wanting to play AFL and they will wonder why. They don't understand the machinations of marketing and advertising. Do you think these two well known identities will have any influence on their decision as to which sport they might want to try or play??? The AFL didn't sign Mitch Rivett and Reece Robinson for a reason you know. Will you tune in to watch Hunt and Falou, out of interest, to see how they go if they make the grade?

As far as BP goes - remember the Exxon Valdez disaster??? Exxon is now the world's largest publicly traded international oil and gas company.

 

[Dazzat]

Kids will see Hunt and Falou wanting to play AFL and they will wonder why. They don't understand the machinations of marketing and advertising. Do you think these two well known identities will have any influence on their decision as to which sport they might want to try or play??? The AFL didn't sign Mitch Rivett and Reece Robinson for a reason you know. Will you tune in to watch Hunt and Falou, out of interest, to see how they go if they make the grade?

As far as BP goes - remember the Exxon Valdez disaster??? Exxon is now the world's largest publicly traded international oil and gas company.

Fair point ... but an awful lot hangs on two young men's shoulders. I simply believe, that after two, maybe three years, of playing park football, being hated by their team mates and opponents, and trying to play a game they don't even enjoy, they will have had enough.

Perhaps Exxon's 'response' to their environmental disaster was what sustained them through their public relations disaster. Just as I believe rugby league's 'response' should be measured, non-reactive and positive. Imagine the paper's in Melbourne if NRL sacked Falou ... they would actually see that as a positive ... that they have forced NRL's hand.

 

[applesauce]

Like Gould, you seem to be more optimistic about other codes than your own. Sorry, I just can't see this happening as a result of the signings of Falou and Hunt. The return on investment will not justify their signings ... that's my 'foresight" if you like.

Using "foresight" I also see their signings causing more problems than creating solutions. These problems starting to appear immediately Falou's signing was announced with many respected AFL commentators slamming the 'investment'.

To use an analogy, you just can't transplant a grown tree from one type of soil into another, from one climate to another ... it simply won't flourish. History certainly shows this. Let's not forget that virtually ALL league players who have dabbled in union have returned ... ALL. I imagine the culture in AFL is more different than union.

Three years from now, we'll all be wondering what the kerfuffle was about.

That's my 'foresight'.

Like Gould i think the NRL will be strong enough to flourish without these players staying in RL or coming back. Lets say their is a 1% chance of it being classified as a success or the AFL get only 3million worth of this investment back, why give a rival code any form of leg up?

Make future players think twice about leaving our game and show them we aren't just 1 more pay packet in the twilight of their careers.

 

[Springs]

I used it as an example. my god you get dumber each time I bother to read your drivel.

Casual racism haha.. I already said I did not know if Johns was a racist or not, you said he wasn't, despite having nfi whether he is or isn't.

I said his comment was racist, it was, my god can you at least make a rudimentary effort to keep up you intellectual minnow?

How about you shut the hell up you lowlife fool. How ignorant can you bloody get. I'm starting to think you have absolutely no idea about anything. Do you even know what casual racism is? It is saying racist things like Johns as without any intent to cause ill feelings. His comment was racist, I said that too, but judging by the comments of those that WOULD KNOW if he was a racist or not, they seem to say he wasn't a racist. Get it yet? Or do you need it in pictures?

Intellectual minnow? How hypocritical you wanna be? Now stop embarrassing yourself and get over it idiot.

 

[Spot On]

Fair point ... but an awful lot hangs on two young men's shoulders. I simply believe, that after two, maybe three years, of playing park football, being hated by their team mates and opponents, and trying to play a game they don't even enjoy, they will have had enough.

Perhaps Exxon's 'response' to their environmental disaster was what sustained them through their public relations disaster. Just as I believe rugby league's 'response' should be measured, non-reactive and positive. Imagine the paper's in Melbourne if NRL sacked Falou ... they would actually see that as a positive ... that they have forced NRL's hand.

Yes I see your points. I'm not sure if the AFL will care if these two "make it or not" in the long term. What matters for them is securing support in the new markets of the Gold Coast and GWS. They have already succeeded. They have a familiar face for these two clubs to parade and put on billboards in these areas knowing full well that local kids - league supporters - will know who they are, recognise them and now they will associate them with AFL. Money well spent if these kids start to follow them, follow AFL or heaven forbid - play AFL! My gut feeling is that they will both come back to league eventually but I don't think the AFL will worry about that too much. They will have played there part in setting up the new franchise.

 

[lockyrulz]

How about you shut the hell up you lowlife fool

How about I keep pointing out how thick you are instead?

How ignorant can you bloody get.

About as ignorant as you, if I come across anyone actually stupider I'll update.

I'm starting to think

Good for you!

Do you even know what casual racism is?

Yea some bullsh*t you made up.

His comment was racist

It sure was

I said that too

Actually no, you said, and I quote..

"What Andrew Johns did does not fall under racism in any terms"

You said the remarks were foolish, you never said they were racist.

As I said you get dumber by the post.

 

[AuDragon]

Yes I see your points. I'm not sure if the AFL will care if these two "make it or not" in the long term. What matters for them is securing support in the new markets of the Gold Coast and GWS. They have already succeeded. They have a familiar face for these two clubs to parade and put on billboards in these areas knowing full well that local kids - league supporters - will know who they are, recognise them and now they will associate them with AFL. Money well spent if these kids start to follow them, follow AFL or heaven forbid - play AFL! My gut feeling is that they will both come back to league eventually but I don't think the AFL will worry about that too much. They will have played there part in setting up the new franchise.

Hunt just played his first VFL game and if not for the Newspaper article, no one knew about it it here on the Gold Coast.
What makes you say they have succeeded in securing support for the new market on the GC? That is absolutely false!
There is no way the AFL will make the slightest dent in the GC RL dominance, with or without Hunt and/or Folau.

I know what I'm talking about, because I am a part of the RL community with a 15 y/o son in an RL school excellence program and involved in his footy club as well. Hunt has effectively been forgotten and buried !

Folau playing in SoO is nothing but publicity for the NRL. Not only the League public, but also the fumble ball curious will see him excel in OUR game!

But what will definitely hurt the AFL most is when he languishes as the best paid, but second rate fumble ball player until his contract expires, to then return to the NRL where his passion and talent will again explode.

What message will that send to the kids? ;-)

 

[applesauce]

In 3 or 4 years when Hunt/Folau want to return their bodies will be different and skills set adjusted. No doubt they will be back but whether or not they will "Explode" back is a different story.

And dazzart just read this article:

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...andrew-demetriou/story-e6frf9jf-1225879536647

The AFL have already made back their investment and them some while taking away 2 RL heros to thousands of young kids out there. Seems like it has worked already.

 

[Spot On]

Hunt just played his first VFL game and if not for the Newspaper article, no one knew about it it here on the Gold Coast.
What makes you say they have succeeded in securing support for the new market on the GC? That is absolutely false!
There is no way the AFL will make the slightest dent in the GC RL dominance, with or without Hunt and/or Folau.

I know what I'm talking about, because I am a part of the RL community with a 15 y/o son in an RL school excellence program and involved in his footy club as well. Hunt has effectively been forgotten and buried !

Folau playing in SoO is nothing but publicity for the NRL. Not only the League public, but also the fumble ball curious will see him excel in OUR game!

But what will definitely hurt the AFL most is when he languishes as the best paid, but second rate fumble ball player until his contract expires, to then return to the NRL where his passion and talent will again explode.

What message will that send to the kids? ;-)

I live on the NSW North Coast and Hunt's run around on the weekend was all over the TV here. The support for the Gold Coast franchise is coming form the media at the moment. Are you saying that the Gold Coast franchise will not succeed in the long term? Also here on the NC, school boy rugby league used to be massive. The PSSA Knockout is now filled with byes as there are not enough teams to play round matches at the beginning of the comp. Junior league numbers have become very poor in this area. The AFL are moving in here quickly and successfully. Their AusKick programs are growing at a rapid rate. They are getting into the schools and running excellent programs. This will continue for the long term.

When the Gold Coast team start up do you think anyone will go to their home games and watch it live? AFL will be long term on the Gold Coast.

 

[Springs]

How about I keep pointing out how thick you are instead?



About as ignorant as you, if I come across anyone actually stupider I'll update.



Good for you!



Yea some bullsh*t you made up.


It sure was



Actually no, you said, and I quote..

"What Andrew Johns did does not fall under racism in any terms"

You said the remarks were foolish, you never said they were racist.

As I said you get dumber by the post.

Great work, taking things out of context, you obviously fell behind. Sorry you don't know what casual racism is mate, but I'm sure you think your lack of knowledge is made up with your overeager insults and put-downs, poor bloke. Sorry about that mate. I'm sure you'll get 'em next time.

 

[lockyrulz]

Great work, taking things out of context, you obviously fell behind. Sorry you don't know what casual racism is mate, but I'm sure you think your lack of knowledge is made up with your overager insults and put-downs, poor bloke. Sorry about that mate. I'm sure you'll get 'em next time.

I'm 3 steps ahead of you. Not that I would list that as an achievement.

First Johns comment was not racism at all, it was 'ridiculous and foolish'.

Then you claimed it was 'casually racist'

The it was racist, which according to you, you'd said from the beginning, even though you didn't.

Now its back to being 'casually racist' again,a phrase which is nothing more than some crap you puled out of your arse.

Needless to say you are a moron.

 

[AuDragon]

In 3 or 4 years when Hunt/Folau want to return their bodies will be different and skills set adjusted. No doubt they will be back but whether or not they will "Explode" back is a different story.

And dazzart just read this article:

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...andrew-demetriou/story-e6frf9jf-1225879536647

The AFL have already made back their investment and them some while taking away 2 RL heros to thousands of young kids out there. Seems like it has worked already.

Do you have any clue how marketing and publicity works?

He forgot to mention how much measurable publicity this has brought to RL in the AFL's own backyard... This type of "coup" is always a two edged sword and Demetriou knows that very well. He tries to spin it positively, but note how he carefully says that they're nowhere near winning the battle, and quickly avoided to comment on how "unnoticed" Hunt's debut was...:sarcasm:

I don't know about Hunt, but Folau will come back to RL of his own will, not for the $$$, and that will be the biggest coup RL can deliver to them!

As for the kids, you would be absolutely foolish to believe that a few billboards or marketing stunts will surpass the influence most of their friends and parents have. Besides, imagine how those that are influenced will feel once Folau goes back to RL, because that is what he loves?

 

[AuDragon]

I live on the NSW North Coast and Hunt's run around on the weekend was all over the TV here. The support for the Gold Coast franchise is coming form the media at the moment. Are you saying that the Gold Coast franchise will not succeed in the long term? Also here on the NC, school boy rugby league used to massive. The PSSA Knockout is now filled with byes as there are not enough teams to play round matches at the beginning of the comp. Junior league numbers have become very poor in this area. The AFL are moving in here quickly and successfully. Their AusKick programs are growing at a rapid rate. They are getting into the schools and running excellent programs. This will continue for the long term.

When the Gold Coast team start up do you think anyone will go to their home games and watch it live? AFL will be long term on the Gold Coast.

I can't speak for NSW's NC, but that is exactly what Vossy commented about the Folau marketing ploy.
The fact that instead of putting those funds into the Auskick program, where it factually could make a big impact, they put all their eggs into the Hunt and Folau plays. Auskick is barely alive and pretty much inexistant in SEQ. I only know of one fumble ball club in the GC and that's because I live right next to it...:lol:

The RL junior (Vikings) competition and excellence school program are very healthy, not only on the Gold Coast, but in the whole of SEQ.

Of course there will be people going to GC17 games, and certainly a few RL fans too, but in a sporting franchises saturated area, RL is absolutely the one with the least to fear, especially when the Titans brand has been so well ingrained and locally supported.

Maybe the NSW premier should get a hint about her support to the GWS franchise... ;-)

TBH, I am much more worried about the impact the current World Cup will have, and a successful Australian bid for the 2022 WC than about fumble ball!

 

[Spot On]

I can't speak for NSW's NC, but that is exactly what Vossy commented about the Folau marketing ploy.
The fact that instead of putting those funds into the Auskick program, where it factually could make a big impact, they put all their eggs into the Hunt and Folau plays. Auskick is barely alive and pretty much inexistant in SEQ. I only know of one fumble ball club in the GC and that's because I live right next to it...:lol:

The RL junior (Vikings) competition and excellence school program are very healthy, not only on the Gold Coast, but in the whole of SEQ.

Of course there will be people going to GC17 games, and certainly a few RL fans too, but in a sporting franchises saturated area, RL is absolutely the one with the least to fear, especially when the Titans brand has been so well ingrained and locally supported.

Maybe the NSW premier should get a hint about her support to the GWS franchise... ;-)

TBH, I am much more worried about the impact the current World Cup will have, and a successful Australian bid for the 2022 WC than about fumble ball!

Interesting stuff Dragon. In response to the league programs up there, maybe this is just another example of how good an organisation the QRL is and how poor the NSWRL and the CRL are.

 

[Dazzat]

I can't speak for NSW's NC, but that is exactly what Vossy commented about the Folau marketing ploy.
The fact that instead of putting those funds into the Auskick program, where it factually could make a big impact, they put all their eggs into the Hunt and Folau plays. Auskick is barely alive and pretty much inexistant in SEQ. I only know of one fumble ball club in the GC and that's because I live right next to it...:lol:

The Auskick program is very successful. But in my part of the world (Sunshine Coast) I reckon it's making more inroads into soccer than rugby league.

I think rugby league's biggest enemy is itself. Instead of looking what the opposition is doing, let rugby league improve its junior development and recruitment. If it means bringing on this independent commission, then lets fast track it.

 

[Dazzat]

In 3 or 4 years when Hunt/Folau want to return their bodies will be different and skills set adjusted. No doubt they will be back but whether or not they will "Explode" back is a different story.

And dazzart just read this article:

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...andrew-demetriou/story-e6frf9jf-1225879536647

The AFL have already made back their investment and them some while taking away 2 RL heros to thousands of young kids out there. Seems like it has worked already.

Interesting. But I agree with Dragon, than this whole thing has probably led to more rugby league being shown in Melbourne media than ever before as well.

But over-arching all that, counting newspaper column space and TV news items doesn't give you the real detail ... how are the public perceiving the publicity.

I played soccer and rugby league successfully as a junior, then switched to Aussie Rules when I was 21 ... at the prompting of a mate.

(Time to boast) I had all the skills, the fastest runner over 100m in the team, could kick the ball 50+ metres, and could mark strongly ... but I didn't cut it in Aussie Rules, even after two years.

I was always 2-3 seconds behind everyone else in between the ears, because those instincts, built up throughout the junior years, wasn't there.

I'm not saying I was as talented as Hunt/Falou, but I'd be surprised if they become established in first grade AFL within two years. And they'll be just average in three.

 

[AuDragon]

And the first cracks are starting to show...

Note the blog comments! :lol:
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/karmichael-hunt-i-have-doubts/story-fn53khop-1225878930676

And also...
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/k...nt-rugby-get-fit/story-e6frf9if-1225879216539

This is the stuff fumble ball would like to keep out of the news!

 

[AuDragon]

The Auskick program is very successful. But in my part of the world (Sunshine Coast) I reckon it's making more inroads into soccer than rugby league.

I think rugby league's biggest enemy is itself. Instead of looking what the opposition is doing, let rugby league improve its junior development and recruitment. If it means bringing on this independent commission, then lets fast track it.

I agree about the independent commission, but this is the first I've heard about Auskick being successful (meaning more than RL or even soccer) anywhere in SEQ. Maybe I'm living in a cocoon down here?

 

[Springs]

I'm 3 steps ahead of you. Not that I would list that as an achievement.

First Johns comment was not racism at all, it was 'ridiculous and foolish'.

Then you claimed it was 'casually racist'

The it was racist, which according to you, you'd said from the beginning, even though you didn't.

Now its back to being 'casually racist' again,a phrase which is nothing more than some crap you puled out of your arse.

Needless to say you are a moron.

Okay, it seems you need it spelled out. The definition of racism is:
1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
2 : racial prejudice or discrimination

Johns said 'stop that black c***'. If he said 'black people are c***s', that would be racist. If he discriminated against other races he would be racist, what Johns did was refer to Inglis' colour of skin, meaning the phrase he used was racial. It did not however put down black people, it did not signal that black people are inferior to him, it was not discrimination, it was not prejudiced.
I am not defending Johns comments, they were stupid, they were foolish, they were horrible, they were offensive. However, they were not directly racist. I am defending Johns as a person, I am quite sure he is not a racist through the words of those closest to him.
It is entirely understandable how Tahu has been offended though.

And yeah, i cannot see how you can call me a moron when you don't now what casual racism is. I do not think you are an idiot, but the fact that you have not heard the term before and think I have made it up certainly makes me think it loudly.
It is acting in stereotypes, it is speaking in Engrish, it is Disney films of the early 40s, it is referring to the colour of ones skin to describe them, it is the type of racism you hear every day as jokes etc, when they are not meant to discriminate or infer that your race is superior etc etc.

But as what happens usually on here, people's refusal to understand things that do not fit in with their agenda, and their simple blind hatred for other human beings twists events around so that everyone who does not agree with them are 'morons'...

 

[lockyrulz]

Okay, it seems you need it spelled out. The definition of racism is:
1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
2 : racial prejudice or discrimination

Johns said 'stop that black c***'. If he said 'black people are c***s', that would be racist. If he discriminated against other races he would be racist, what Johns did was refer to Inglis' colour of skin, meaning the phrase he used was racial. It did not however put down black people, it did not signal that black people are inferior to him, it was not discrimination, it was not prejudiced.
I am not defending Johns comments, they were stupid, they were foolish, they were horrible, they were offensive. However, they were not directly racist. I am defending Johns as a person, I am quite sure he is not a racist through the words of those closest to him.
It is entirely understandable how Tahu has been offended though.

And yeah, i cannot see how you can call me a moron when you don't now what casual racism is. I do not think you are an idiot, but the fact that you have not heard the term before and think I have made it up certainly makes me think it loudly.
It is acting in stereotypes, it is speaking in Engrish, it is Disney films of the early 40s, it is referring to the colour of ones skin to describe them, it is the type of racism you hear every day as jokes etc, when they are not meant to discriminate or infer that your race is superior etc etc.

But as what happens usually on here, people's refusal to understand things that do not fit in with their agenda, and their simple blind hatred for other human beings twists events around so that everyone who does not agree with them are 'morons'...

John's comment did put down black people, I have already explained how. I can't make you smart enough to understand it.

I can call you a moron because that is exactly what you are.

Let me know when you've finally decided whether the comment was racist, casually racist, had racial overtones, or had no racial component and was simply foolish wont you?

Idiot.