Players sign on value

[denis preston]

There is something that occured to me in relation to our dismal slide and the apparent loss of form by most in the side : their value on their next contract. For instance Dufty's manager is pushing ( or was ! ) higher than the club is prepared to pay and that was 6 weeks ago. Lets say after round 10 Dufty's next contract was potentialy worth 500k & Mcinness 500k . They at present would be lucky to get 100 to 150k near that. This leads me to scratch my head on how is it possible for the players to have any respect for the coach particulary when their managers tell them the bad news. This may explain why some may be thinking it's best that the coach must be replaced for them to perform better and as a result lift their worth in the marketplace.May be subconcious but it's just a theroy .

Incidently i hark back to May this year and the side being media darlings and when the coach was reminded of the previous two years mid season slide , he responded with "no that won't happen as we have prepared off season to make sure it won't "" A current player was asked by my friend about this and he responded at the time that their training & conditioning in the 2017/18 off season was exactly the same as in previous years. The evidence is piling up !

 

[Bests Golden Boots]

You may have a point there, good coaches turn players into great players, bad coaches ruin them, as we are currently seeing.
So yeah, it may not even be subconscious, just simple economics.

 

[dannyt]

The evidence is piling up !

If the evidence was neatly piled on top of each other, it would reach to Jupiter and back.

 

[BLM01]

There is something that occured to me in relation to our dismal slide and the apparent loss of form by most in the side : their value on their next contract. For instance Dufty's manager is pushing ( or was ! ) higher than the club is prepared to pay and that was 6 weeks ago. Lets say after round 10 Dufty's next contract was potentialy worth 500k & Mcinness 500k . They at present would be lucky to get 100 to 150k near that. This leads me to scratch my head on how is it possible for the players to have any respect for the coach particulary when their managers tell them the bad news. This may explain why some may be thinking it's best that the coach must be replaced for them to perform better and as a result lift their worth in the marketplace.May be subconcious but it's just a theroy .

Incidently i hark back to May this year and the side being media darlings and when the coach was reminded of the previous two years mid season slide , he responded with "no that won't happen as we have prepared off season to make sure it won't "" A current player was asked by my friend about this and he responded at the time that their training & conditioning in the 2017/18 off season was exactly the same as in previous years. The evidence is piling up !

What Mary said is that they have put things in place this year to counteract player fatigue from origin / Denver test contributions and team late season fades or fatigues. The question is what was it and whatever it was didnt work again. Back to the drawing board. Although they did spend money for our HPU top dog Pickworth to fly to Denver to chaperone our players to ensure they got enough sleep. Maybe that was the big plan Pickworth to baby sit the team to ensure they eat well and get sleep.
In relation to contracts Player Managers are just like brokers and they are there to make money only and are the biggest evil for rumours getting out and thorn in rugby league at the expense of even if it splits a club apart. But they wanted professionalism and that is the by product. The only thing that can save any club is money, lots of it and 3rd parties now so you can buy your way to a premiership.
We have a super league in sorts (professionalism gone overboard) fellow supporters that we tried to avoid in the late 90's but it is just held in this country. Gone is tribalism and the working class game that most of us on this site grew up with.
Maybe I will go back to paying $10 entry and watching ISP Dragons and pay $8 for a pie and full strength beer as my new team.

 

[FlameThrower]

What Mary said is that they have put things in place this year to counteract player fatigue from origin / Denver test contributions and team late season fades or fatigues. The question is what was it and whatever it was didnt work again. Back to the drawing board. Although they did spend money for our HPU top dog Pickworth to fly to Denver to chaperone our players to ensure they got enough sleep. Maybe that was the big plan Pickworth to baby sit the team to ensure they eat well and get sleep.
In relation to contracts Player Managers are just like brokers and they are there to make money only and are the biggest evil for rumours getting out and thorn in rugby league at the expense of even if it splits a club apart. But they wanted professionalism and that is the by product. The only thing that can save any club is money, lots of it and 3rd parties now so you can buy your way to a premiership.
We have a super league in sorts (professionalism gone overboard) fellow supporters that we tried to avoid in the late 90's but it is just held in this country. Gone is tribalism and the working class game that most of us on this site grew up with.
Maybe I will go back to paying $10 entry and watching ISP Dragons and pay $8 for a pie and full strength beer as my new team.

We did not need a sports scientist to tell us the bleeding obvious . Rest the rep players during Origion and Denver Test. McGregor had his get out of jail card and did not use it. Drove players into the ground, mentally and physically. Souths, Panthers, Roosters, Storm all rested players - we did not and still lost those games anyway.

 

[Blood Shot Eyes]

We did not need a sports scientist to tell us the bleeding obvious . Rest the rep players during Origion and Denver Test. McGregor had his get out of jail card and did not use it. Drove players into the ground, mentally and physically. Souths, Panthers, Roosters, Storm all rested players - we did not and still lost those games anyway.

Yes agree...and there were plenty of games where McGregor kept these players out on the field when 1 the game was lost or 2 we had the game won....and our fresh players were pulling splinters out of their arses from sitting on the bench.......and still to this day he argues that the rep players were monitored and rested at training sessions during this time.....unbelievable

 

[BLM01]

We did not need a sports scientist to tell us the bleeding obvious . Rest the rep players during Origion and Denver Test. McGregor had his get out of jail card and did not use it. Drove players into the ground, mentally and physically. Souths, Panthers, Roosters, Storm all rested players - we did not and still lost those games anyway.

There is more to it than just he should of rested the rep stars. In fact some of the rep stars are still ripping in. Frizzell & Sims. Its a whole team thing..confidence and worrying about their own game too much without being able to break down other teams defensive patterns with plays to suit. It is all the coaching of the side. The resting and tiredness or players being played bit busted when not 100%..is a reason..but all teams do that and that is a get out for Mary again for a poor Round 10-24. and I dont buy that as the reason.
What about the non rep stars that are also looking tired.or disinterested or devoid of ideas or falling of tackles.
Souths have lost 3 in a row now..and 5 out of their last 6...but Cook played origin and has had no rest this year and is going still strong. McInnes did not and has fallen away.
Mary has failed to address weaknesses / cracks in players and team form from early this year (round 5-6 against Souths & Cronulla stand out to me although we still won), repair, nip in the bud or individually at times let them find better form in reserves / try someone from reserves before it become more obvious and worse from Round 10 onwards. (in both attack and defence). That is the main reason for our failure now and all other years..not more rest. Mary keeps saying himself..they have had plenty of rest in between games etc.

 

[SEAT 1A]

A current player was asked by my friend about this and he responded at the time that their training & conditioning in the 2017/18 off season was exactly the same as in previous years. The evidence is piling up !

Did Nathan Pickworth have any input on this.

Surely, Mary wouldn't be able to override the conditioning aspect of the players.

 

[BankstownDragon]

We did not need a sports scientist to tell us the bleeding obvious . Rest the rep players during Origion and Denver Test. McGregor had his get out of jail card and did not use it. Drove players into the ground, mentally and physically. Souths, Panthers, Roosters, Storm all rested players - we did not and still lost those games anyway.

Exactly.
Everyone seems to know and understand this except our low IQ brain dead coach who thinks he knows better.
All he cares about is winning the next game and continuing in his job, no foresight or proper planning as that would take planning and a little risk taking.
Too much for Mary.

 

[denis preston]

Did Nathan Pickworth have any input on this.

Surely, Mary wouldn't be able to override the conditioning aspect of the players.

Well , if the head coach thought there was no change in plan ( compared to other years ) to offset burnout wouldn't he ask the question ? You just know at review stage they will be looking for Pickworth and then find him under a bus ! Doesn't appear a strong enough character to me to stand up to the coach and demand that players are rested. Mary was fixated with making the 8 to retain his job at the expense of the overall chances of making a GF.

 

[True_Believer]

We did not need a sports scientist to tell us the bleeding obvious . Rest the rep players during Origion and Denver Test. McGregor had his get out of jail card and did not use it. Drove players into the ground, mentally and physically. Souths, Panthers, Roosters, Storm all rested players - we did not and still lost those games anyway.

Panthers rested players as well and aren't travelling well either. I don't think resting players would have made a difference.

I really don't think it's about the pre-season or about origin or long term fatigue. I think it's more to do with game management and fatigue based on each games strategy and how it's panning out.

 

[True_Believer]

There is more to it than just he should of rested the rep stars. In fact some of the rep stars are still ripping in. Frizzell & Sims. Its a whole team thing..confidence and worrying about their own game too much without being able to break down other teams defensive patterns with plays to suit. It is all the coaching of the side. The resting and tiredness or players being played bit busted when not 100%..is a reason..but all teams do that and that is a get out for Mary again for a poor Round 10-24. and I dont buy that as the reason.
What about the non rep stars that are also looking tired.or disinterested or devoid of ideas or falling of tackles.
Souths have lost 3 in a row now..and 5 out of their last 6...but Cook played origin and has had no rest this year and is going still strong. McInnes did not and has fallen away.
Mary has failed to address weaknesses / cracks in players and team form from early this year (round 5-6 against Souths & Cronulla stand out to me although we still won), repair, nip in the bud or individually at times let them find better form in reserves / try someone from reserves before it become more obvious and worse from Round 10 onwards. (in both attack and defence). That is the main reason for our failure now and all other years..not more rest. Mary keeps saying himself..they have had plenty of rest in between games etc.

I agree BLM - I just don't think the whole resting players is the issue. I think it's more about the game plan and players ability to execute it. Fatigue is an issue, but its more about in game fatigue than actual long term fatigue.

 

[SEAT 1A]

Well , if the head coach thought there was no change in plan ( compared to other years ) to offset burnout wouldn't he ask the question ? You just know at review stage they will be looking for Pickworth and then find him under a bus ! Doesn't appear a strong enough character to me to stand up to the coach and demand that players are rested. Mary was fixated with making the 8 to retain his job at the expense of the overall chances of making a GF.

Good point denis re Mary's no need to change the plan.

Nathan may not have wanted to row agaisnt the tide once Mary made up his mind.

 

[BLM01]

I agree BLM - I just don't think the whole resting players is the issue. I think it's more about the game plan and players ability to execute it. Fatigue is an issue, but its more about in game fatigue than actual long term fatigue.

It is simple. Look at Bellamy, Robo, Bennett in fact the other 15 coaches speak after a win. They are still not happy with some aspect or find fault with parts of their game and publicly speak about it. Not Mary. Every win is good enough.(fair enough) but.nothing to change, nothing to see or improve on. NEVER looks to change things up or improve on what we are doing.

 

[blacksafake]

Panthers rested players as well and aren't travelling well either. I don't think resting players would have made a difference.

I really don't think it's about the pre-season or about origin or long term fatigue. I think it's more to do with game management and fatigue based on each games strategy and how it's panning out.

The Panthers have had injuries,coach & Gould, Ciraldo not talking & Griffins sacking as well as origin. So if anything they have an excuse.

 

[2010]

Just look at the teams in the right. They have no trouble giving their juniors a chance and have been rewarded and are now regular first grade players.
A coach, who I can't remember who it was said that in order to be successful needed to bring at least one junior through each year.
Who have we bought through? Jason P and that was as a result of injury.
It's reported that we are going to lose players like Herbrtt and I don't blame him one bit if he left.
I don't see us next year matching our start this year. 2019 could be a disaster if McIdiot is still the coach

 

[True_Believer]

The Panthers have had injuries,coach & Gould, Ciraldo not talking & Griffins sacking as well as origin. So if anything they have an excuse.

Who are the injuries?

 

[True_Believer]

The Panthers have had injuries,coach & Gould, Ciraldo not talking & Griffins sacking as well as origin. So if anything they have an excuse.

I haven't seen anything about Ciraldo and Gould not talking. And don't they say that a change in coach normally improves team performance? I don't think they have an excuse - at least nothing different to us.

We have a coach who can't get a team prepared to play and to provide a good game plan. We also have a couple of key injuries and lost more on the weekend. If anything, the only difference is that they rested players and we didn't - I'd say we are in a very similar boat.

 

[muzby]

I’d be curious to look at our average minutes player per player.

With limited injuries at the start of the season combined with our coaching master stroke of using 16 players for 70 minutes each game, I reckon our team would be leading the comp..

So it’s not just origin, it will be the full season having the impact.

 

[muzby]

Who are the injuries?

Wallace retired.

Peachy was out for a while too yeah?

Not to mention RCG’s broken jaw.