Possible USA restructure

[deal.with.it]

Hi guys, it's late at night but i think i have came up with an alright idea.
So most of us have been wishing the USARL could be the recognised body, or that some sort of conference system could happen, or somehow both parties miraculously rejoin. But heres an idea which im not sure if it has been suggested.
So, the AMNRL remains the governing body of RL in the USA. Everything comes under the AMNRL banner. Within the AMNRL banner, you could have:
- The highest level to play at = USA Tomahawks
- The highest level domestic comp = the USARL (run by the USARL's model of unified members, with all equal voting power)
- Division II = clubs who can't commit to the USARL's standards, but are willing to play games when they have the players
- Division III = Clubs who are developing, and may play 9's tournaments or a match once a year (Denver/Colarado, Utah, Iowa etc..)

*So, the USARL falls into this umbrella, similarly to the NRL or ESL being the highest comp in each country, and run as its own organisation with its own management etc...
*Whether David Niu remain President of the whole umbrella, or whether someone more qualified takes over is up to the clubs.
*Junior teams should be added to the USARL teams as they become available, particularly an under 20s/21s/reserves. Division II and III should focus on their first team, and gain promotion into the higher division.
*Anyone playing under the AMNRL banner will be eligble for tomahawks selection, including overseas based players.
*If the hawaii comp picks up, they would play as Division I Hawaii, or if standards are high, USARL Hawaii.

I think by structuring the body this way, investments will not be lost i.e.websites, sponsors, advertising etc...
I wonder if the RLIF thought of any idea like this, or they just said to both parties "look, we need you both. please make one comp".
The top teams have gone beyond playing at a park standard. They deserve to play in high school/uni stadiums, with locker rooms, and referees.
It makes it more favourable for getting investment from sponsors and govt if you have a soundly structured organisation. The USARL's AYRLA and refereeing association would not be lost. These could either become under the entire AMNRL umbrella, or simply as a USARL only initiative, with a tried and tested method for all USARL teams to use when developing grass roots and referees.

 

[billy2]

America is such a large place that there is always going to be multiple comps from now on.
I've been thinking for a while that a North American Challenge Cup is something that should be established to bind the whole thing together.
A knockout comp wouldn't be a huge burden on the weaker sides who would only play one extra game a year, while the stronger sides would get more games, but no more than about 4 or 5 for the best two sides in North America (f Canada and Jamacia were included)

 

[Western_Eel]

The USARL and the AMNRL dont need to cooperate with each other, As long as they are both moving in the right direction

 

[deluded pom?]

The USARL and the AMNRL dont need to cooperate with each other, As long as they are both moving in the right direction

Disagree. There has to be some sort of co-operation somewhere down the line. Even if both entities are moving in the right direction one of them will still be on the outside when it comes down to international recognition. So there has to be some co-operation if this obstacle is to be overcome.

 

[deal.with.it]

Spot on Pom!
If there isn't a restructure, then every time international selection happens, or everytime the AMNRL makes a press release, people on here and all over the world will blow up and make comments about how unfair it is.
Every one should go on youtube and check out the videos posted by curtis cunz (username 'ozziecunz' i think).
It shows you the jerseys being handed out, and the speaches before hand by Niu, Jeff Preston and Shane Maynes. It shows you what playing for you country means (yes a few of them are aussies, but nonetheless) and it shows you the passion these guys have.
Clearly, the USARL guys were fed up with not getting an equal say, but under the current AMNRL structure, they don't have to do anything for anyone.

I would like to hear from Danny, Lawrence, Spinner, Shammas and the Boston crew, Cheby from warriors, Bucks County, NY Knights,and anyone else who posts on LU.
Would this kind of restructure work for you? The only thing that would really change with the USARL competition structure is the inclusion of a few more teams (the AMNRL's best), which would include Niu and Vassy's Aston Bulls.

 

[adamkungl]

Why would Nui/the AMNRL go for this? Essentially it just means the USARL wins...

 

[billy2]

Changing the national selection policy doesn't require a restructure - it's basically the stroke of a pen.
The two current comps, the Hawaiian comp and any new comps could just keep doing what they are doing, but it would be nice if cross comp games could be played in the next few years.

 

[deal.with.it]

A "stroke of the pen" doesn't mean that USARL players will be selected. Niu can chose to overlook them.
If a restructure occurred, and AMNRL teams were playing in the USARL comp, players would play for whatever team they like, rather than a team which will allow them to be selected. Ala Apple Pope.
A bunch of guys could have sat out the season like he did, and gained Tomahawks selection, but most guys want to play week in week out footy. If they could play for their nearest team without worrying if they will be looked at for selection, it would benefit everyone - particularly their playing standards.
Teams like the NY knights deserve to play against the best teams in the comp, as does Jacksonville.
Of course, teams don't have to do anything. Comps don't have to restructure and realign. But what is best for the game in the USA, and for the game moving into the world cup...

 

[deal.with.it]

Why would Nui/the AMNRL go for this? Essentially it just means the USARL wins...

But if the AMNRL is still the governing body, and Niu president, how has he lost?
"His" Amnrl has now got 3 divisions, with youth comps starting, and thousands of registered players.

 

[deal.with.it]

I mean, it would be easier to kill him off. But, someone would have murder charges pending...
Jokes lol

 

[adamkungl]

But if the AMNRL is still the governing body, and Niu president, how has he lost?
"His" Amnrl has now got 3 divisions, with youth comps starting, and thousands of registered players.

But wasn't the power/voting structure of it one of the largest issue leading to the split? What you're suggesting sounds very similar to what the USARL clubs originally wanted - they weren't attempting to force Niu out of power (from what I recall) but to give the clubs more of a say and an insight into how things are run.

 

[deal.with.it]

But according to one of the league magazines which Niu was interviewed, he said that they broke away before he even responded to the letter which was sent to him stating they want equal voice/share etc...
Not to say the outcome would have been any different.
In the structure i listed, the USARL remains the AMNRL's premier competition, much the same way the Rugby Super League is the premier comp in USA rugby union.
And the USARL structure remains the same, any new team (aka the AMNRL teams) must adhere to the equal rights structure of the comp, and they most also be able to meet the minimum standards of the competition (stadium, locker rooms, lighting etc). So the teams own the USARL, with a chairman elected to chair the meetings represented by one person from each team.

 

[PacificCoastRL]

I agree with billy2. Nothing really has to change as far as the number of competitions involved, and there can and should be more at this time. The costs to transport players and house them while on the road are too much for teams to absorb at this time. Smaller regional competitions are the way to go. If at some point a "tournament of champions" can be worked out where all the champions of each comp meet to determine an American champions great. But that is probably a few years away.
As far as the national team goes, it wouldn't even take a stroke of a pen to include everyone. It would only take everyone checking their egos at the door.

 

[deluded pom?]

But according to one of the league magazines which Niu was interviewed, he said that they broke away before he even responded to the letter which was sent to him stating they want equal voice/share etc...

The version I read had the USARL waiting an eternity for a response from Niu. When their patience ran out then the split occurred.

 

[deal.with.it]

Pacific, I aAgree that ego's need to be left at the door.
As for your other comments:
The AMNRL teams entering the USARL structure would all be on the east coast, all in that southern CT, NY, Philli area. It wouldn't be much of a drain on the existing USARL teams, they are all on the east coast too.
I don't see where the big increase in costs would lie?
I am not saying to get rid of the regional comps. I have outlined that these would be in Division II, III or in their own USARL level competition if the standard becomes higher.

 

[Choo Choo]

Here's my two cents for what it's worth.

The USARL never intended to force Niu from power. We merely wanted an equal say on the board and more transparency within the AMNRL. Granted the AMNRL is David's creation, but most Fortune 500 companies these days are not solely owned by the people that created them. At some point for anything to grow and be successful, you have to let go of some of the power and accept the fact that there may be people out there that have skill sets you don't and can take your creation to another level. I think the same applies here. Not saying the USARL knows it all, but I think we had a pretty successful 2011 season; even though the Fight won it all (JUST KIDDING RYAN AND PETER!).

On that line, David was given at least a month to reply to the Dec 2010 letter the USARL drafted and sent to him and all he did was attack it and make wild accusations on twitter. He NEVER formally acknowledged the letter.

Now for the structure; your overall concept is not that bad and could possibly work. The only issues I see are at the top. For it to work, Niu will have to agree to an elected board of governors (made up by representatives from each team [Div II and III get a 1/3 vote until they make Div I] and one or two outsiders that are not affiliated with any team) where majority rules in voting (not autocratic), a Tomahawk selection committee that is made up by a representative from each Division I squad (everyone in the league at any level has a chance to make the squad), each Div II and III team will be assigned a mentor team in Div I that will work with them to bring them up to speed, actual tryouts for the tomahawks, full and open disclosure on the running of the league, open elections each year for board members, annual independent financial audits with published results to all teams, and a ratified constitution that can only be amended by a majority vote of the board of governors.

The regional comps should work too with cross conference matches each season like they do in the NFL. Cost could be controlled that way and teams that normally wouldn't play each other have a chance to mix it up with someone new.

OK, that's my input. Feel free to poke holes in it at any level.

This is a good discussion and there actually might be a real solution here.

Thanks guys for your input, support, and not giving up on the USA.

 

[Rampart66]

On that line, David was given at least a month to reply to the Dec 2010 letter the USARL drafted and sent to him and all he did was attack it and make wild accusations on twitter. He NEVER formally acknowledged the letter.

Not to rehash this whole situation or highjack the thread...

Prior to the letter being sent to David, he had sent a letter to all teams demanding that all identity and merchandising rights were signed away to the AMNRL and Star Group. If David and the Star Group were putting money towards each team's travel and field expenses, then I could stomach that. A team's identity is very important to create a sense of pride in your market city. The identity can also help secure sponsors and sell merchandise. While merchandise may not be the highest revenue source, it's an important source nontheless.

Trying to control a league comprised of individual teams who struggle to find the finances to field a team every season can't be sustained without the individual teams having input into the league administration is destined to fail.

About the restructure....

Right now, the split was the best thing to happen for rugby league in the States. This has forced each league to compete and really grow the game. I think everyone would agree that there are more people in the US playing the game than ever before.

There are teams in major markets in both leagues and we're seeing growth with teams like Atlanta, Baltimore and Northern Virginia planned for the 2012 season.

Personally, I don't see David giving an inch and that's his right; to do so would admit defeat.

However, at some point to really move the game forward, money has to com in to play. The potential for profitablilty is staggering with Rugby League as a summer sport (since all of the countless sports networks struggle to find programming in the summer other than baseball, soccer, NASCAR and poker). RL has the ability to be the "summer" football that the USFL, XFL, UFL and Arena Football have all failed to do.

Eventually, I feel that the RLIF will have to step in to evaluate the national team. I'm sure the league with the most structure, teams, exposure and plan going forward will have control of the national team.

Until then, the competition is good for the game in the US. It will turn the sport from something that resembles a softball league sponsored by the local pub and more like a mainstream league with high profile advertisers.

 

[Choo Choo]

Not to rehash this whole situation or highjack the thread...

Prior to the letter being sent to David, he had sent a letter to all teams demanding that all identity and merchandising rights were signed away to the AMNRL and Star Group... .

Good call, I forgot about that letter.

 

[deal.with.it]

Danny,
Thanks for your post and for acknowledging that something along these lines could work. I completely agree with you about a board being elected to oversee all things under the AMNRL banner, and team from the lower division should also get a vote, but less than the USARL/division I teams.
Niu should not have responded through twitter, nor vassy, but he obviously felt threatened and did not know how to deal with the situation. Maybe a short course in dispute/conflict resolution would have been appropriate.
My question for you is, where would David Niu fit into the structure, because he sure as hell won't agree to any such restructuring if he has no where to go.

Rampart,
Thanks for the info on merchandise. And although it may not be the greatest form of revenue, merch sales definitely help sports teams.
How would you feel about the Sledgehammers being a division II or III team, playing the odd game, while working with a USARL/division I team to bring you up to speed to compete in the top league? I know you have had some assistance of late with some of the USARL teams, but if it was a more formalised agreement, with KPI's to be achieved?
Rugby League could be that summer sport to really break into the market, achieve some higher profile sponsors, and possibly some media attention.

 

[docbrown]

My feeling is that the sport could be healthier in the short term because of the competition (each side trying to do their best & not faltering).

It seems to me that the main issue is international recognition for USARL. To me the common sense approach that RLIF should take is that both competition continue as is but for internationals selectors are appointed from both sides and they select the national squad.

I'd also nominate an RLIF development employee with no affiliations who would oversee both competitions and who would be the final independent arbiter in any disagreements.