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Question on FIFA 2022 World Cup, $, & the NRL

jargan83

jargan83

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Goddo said:
Yeah it seems the WA and SA governments don't get it...
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There are alot of things the WA Government doesn't get. They are too busy sitting on a budget surplus and saying that times are tough so some infrastructure projects have been put on hold or canned completly
 
The Tank

The Tank

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bobmar28 said:
I don't get what's on the video screen. Doesn't look like the same stadium.
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That's AC Milan (Italian soccer team). There was a pre-season tournament played in America, I think it was International Football Cup or something similar. Some games were at Cowboys Stadium. Chelsea played (and won, of course ;-) )the final there aswell. Maybe they were showing highlights from previous games before the game?
 
Perth Red

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Goddo said:
Yeah it seems the WA and SA governments don't get it... I remember reading somewhere that it costs around $2 billion to run the thing but it generates something like 4-5 times that much for the host.

If the governements only spent $1-2 billion getting the stadiums we need they would make that back and then some, plus the jobs generated building the inferstructure, and leave australia a legacy of improved transport inferstructure and excellent stadiums for 3 domestic competitions and to host further big events (rugby league and union world cups, ACL soccer, et cetera).
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The thing is the State Govt's won't want to committ any $'s in the hope the Fed Govt will have to in order for a serious bid to take place. At the end of the day a WC should be the responsibility of the Commonwealth as it is a national event that has benefits for the country as a whole and therefore they should be driving the stadium agenda with the cities that are being flagged as the ones to host games.

I am sure if the C'wealth wnet to the ACT Govt and said look we will give you $300mill to upgrade your stadium the ACT Govt would jump!
 
Goddo

Goddo

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That is probably what will happen red, its just all the governments are seeing how far they can push each other.

Say its a $350m stadium needed, the feds would commit about $150m, states $100m, and rest raised through corporates like Macquarie Bank. That is the sort of thing that usually happens.

I can't believe that all our cities don't have a "sporting presinct" like Moore Park in Sydney, with a big oval for cricket and numptyball and a good football stadium for Rugby League, Ra Ra and socca, both +60k capacity. Also needed is a train line from the presinct to the city/central station.

Screw moving stands, you end up with one stadium that sucks at oval and rectangle and it costs almost as much as two grounds.
 
Perth Red

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agree, the Melbourne sporting precinct will be one of the best in the world when the new stadium is finished.

Perth had a chance when Burswood put its hand up to have a rectangular and oval stadium built on the River next to the casino. Would have created a brilliant entertainment precinct on a 5min train ride from the city. Short sighted WA Govt, no doubt pressured by the WAFL, opted for Subiaco instead.
 
Goddo

Goddo

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Found this on the SBS website from a few days ago...

http://www.theworldgame.com.au/australia/bureaucracy-threatens-bid-235977

Seems my hunch that the governments are bickering over costs will come good in December is correct. I like the last sentence. It really sounds like FFA aren't just going to roll over and accept stadiums like Subiaco...

The failure of State and Federal governments to agree on who will fund the construction of future stadiums threatens to frustrate Australia’s bid for the 2018 and 2022 World Cups.
At the heart of the issue is the lack of stadia that meet strict FIFA requirements for World Cup hosts.
While rival bid nation the United States has confirmed 32 stadiums that already meet FIFA requirements for its own bid, Australia is struggling to confirm it can lock in 12 venues by the December 11 “bid book” deadline.
Under FIFA’s strict criteria, stadiums must be able to accommodate a minimum of 40,000 spectators and also be able to support corporate, media and broadcast requirements.
While acknowledging construction funding was an issue for some governments, Football Federation Australia (FFA) remains confident an agreement will be made between Canberra and State governments that will see most major regions in Australia host World Cup matches.
“We are very confident with the bid,” said FFA spokesperson Bonita Mersiades. “We have been working with government to ensure we are on track.”
“The World Cup has a $5.3 billion benefit to the Australian economy, including infrastructure, and it is important to note that no expenditure by any government is required until we are successful with the bid.”
One of the major issues facing State governments is whether to build a football-specific stadium that leaves a legacy for the sport in Australia’s cities or refurbish existing stadia – like the Melbourne Cricket Ground – more often used for cricket and Australian Rules football.
One of the major criticisms of the organisation of the Sydney 2000 Olympic Games was that local football did not benefit from the infrastructure afforded to venues used for Olympic Football.
“In 2000, a cricket ground was used for football in Brisbane and the sport got nothing,” said one source with knowledge of Australia’s bid. “In Melbourne, a cricket ground was used for football and the sport got nothing again.
“If Australia is to host the World Cup in 2018 or 2022 it will be embarrassing if football in this country again gets nothing."
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Timbo

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The problem is that it's not just stadiums - it's the associated costs.

For example, say a bare bones FIFA acceptable stadium costs you...$400 million to build.

Well. Then you have to spend a fortune building the surrounding infrastructure. You need rail links to get 40,000 people in and out of the stadium in a timely manner. You need warm up facilities on site. You need a media centre nearby. You also need a very large amount of parking closeby (FIFA WC regulation) which I read in an article recently has the potential to stump a venue like Suncorp.

So your $400 million stadium suddenly needs another $200 million worth of infrastructure.

I mean - anyone who follows Super 14 or watches international rugby knows how good the facilities at Newlands and ABSA are...

http://www.worldstadiums.com/stadium_pictures/africa/south_africa/durban_absa.shtml

http://www.worldstadiums.com/stadium_pictures/africa/south_africa/cape_town_newlands.shtml

Those two stadiums were turned down out of hand by FIFA and were deemed so unacceptable that no amount of upgrades would bring them to World Cup standard. They are FAR better stadiums than, say, the Sydney Football Stadium so if they're getting knocked back we're stuffed.

Another gem in South Africa:

http://www.worldstadiums.com/stadium_pictures/africa/south_africa/port_elizabeth_eprfu.shtml

That's the 35,000 seater EPRFU Stadium in Port Elizabeth, which could have easily been made 40-50,000 seats if they'd finished off the open end. Instead they're building a brand new, state-of-the-art stadium.

Our bid will come to naught.
 
Perth Red

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why were them stadiums knocked back? They look no worse than alot of UK soccer stadiums.

I can see why the last one is being rebuilt. It usually costs double to renovate rather than demolish and satrt again.
 
Goddo

Goddo

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The problem is that it's not just stadiums - it's the associated costs.

For example, say a bare bones FIFA acceptable stadium costs you...$400 million to build.

Well. Then you have to spend a fortune building the surrounding infrastructure. You need rail links to get 40,000 people in and out of the stadium in a timely manner. You need warm up facilities on site. You need a media centre nearby. You also need a very large amount of parking closeby (FIFA WC regulation) which I read in an article recently has the potential to stump a venue like Suncorp.

So your $400 million stadium suddenly needs another $200 million worth of infrastructure.
Click to expand...

All that infrastructure is of massive benefit to the community and is worth the cost. In regards to Sydney alone, the state government want to build a huge underground network, which the world cup work could fit snuggly into.
It really is now up to the Federal and State governments to come up with the political will (money) now. If they want it here, it will happen. If they thought they could get it without doing any work, it won't.
 
jargan83

jargan83

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Perth Red said:
agree, the Melbourne sporting precinct will be one of the best in the world when the new stadium is finished.

Perth had a chance when Burswood put its hand up to have a rectangular and oval stadium built on the River next to the casino. Would have created a brilliant entertainment precinct on a 5min train ride from the city. Short sighted WA Govt, no doubt pressured by the WAFL, opted for Subiaco instead.
Click to expand...

The WA Government chose not to follow that option because they had signed the contracts for their own Indoor Centre currently being constructed down on Wellington Street
 
T

The Observer

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Timbo said:
Those two stadiums were turned down out of hand by FIFA and were deemed so unacceptable that no amount of upgrades would bring them to World Cup standard.
Click to expand...

No, they weren't. The process by which Newlands Rugby Stadium (Cape Town, as opposed to the cricket ground next door) and Kings Park Rugby stadium (Durban, as opposed to the soccer ground next door) were rejected as WC venues was complicated, involved local and international politics, e.g. described in the article 2010: Newlands was Safa's 'venue of choice'

Interesting that Newlands was initially accepted by FIFA, then suddenly rejected. Athlone was then proposed, but FIFA didn't want the world to see the areas around the stadium

Some multisport venues were used:
* Ellis Park (Johannesburg, hosts Lions Rugby and soccer),
* Loftus Versfeld (Pretoria, hosts the Bulls S14 champions and soccer)
* Free State Stadium (Bloemfontein, home of Cheetahs Rugby and soccer

The new Durban soccer stadium will be right next door to Kings Park! Also, the pitch has a running track around it, because Durban wants to bid for the Commonwealth games. After WC, the local Durban government wants to force the (KwaZulu) Natal Rugby Union, owners of Kings Park, out of the stadium, into the soccer stadium, which the Union and fans strongly oppose for a number of very fair reasons. First, the running track. Second, the type of seats are apparently inferior. Third, Natal RU owns Kings Park. Similar deal with Western Province RU being reluctant to move the Stormers S14 franchise and WP Currie Cup team to Green Point - since WPRU owns Newlands, it doesn't make financial sense to move to a government owned stadium.

There is a bigger political and social issue at work - some suggest that SA local councils and national government (ANC) wants to take stadium ownership and operation away from the provincial Rugby Unions.
 
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Perth Red

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Perth Red

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It was signed off on today, not that ancient!

The biggie will come 2011 in time for the election I reckon!
 
jargan83

jargan83

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Perth Red said:
It was signed off on today, not that ancient!

The biggie will come 2011 in time for the election I reckon!
Click to expand...

Sorry, I've known about it for some time hence the old news call. The big $160m upgrade is suppoed to begin next year, at least a 2 year completion time (so knowing how big projects overe here go 3)
 
Perth Red

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Would be ideal for our 2013 if it does but not holding my breath seeing as they've been promising since 2000!
 
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