Question

[Tomahawk]

Please correct me if I am wrong with any of my information, and clarify were I am wrong please

Non-Imports

- US Citizen
- Permanent Resident (Green Card, Spouse Visa, etc.)
- Work Permit (not a travel VISA) and a person who lives and works in the US for more than 6 months of a year

Imports
- Travel Visas
- Work Permits and lives in the US for less then 6 months a year

Every team in the AMNRL has at least one player in the categories above regarding foreign players. Some teams have more players’ foreign players then other teams. For example the Glen Mills Bulls have;

Dave Nui
Marcus Vassilakopoulos
Jason Gangram
Scott Nicholas

Other teams have one foreign player on their team, while other teams have 10 or more foreign players on their team. The Delaware MantaRays and New Jersey Sharks are two teams that are made up of just one foreign player. Spinner has said he will limit the number of foreign players who want to play on the Axeman.

The question I would like to propose to everyone out there is, “How many foreign players should a team be able to have in a single season?” This would even include foreign players who are now US citizens. (Examples - Dave Nui and Marcus Vassilakopoulos)

A foreign player in the AMNRL said to me that he believes that this is something that the AMNRL needs to look into. When I asked him what the number of foreign players each team should be able to have he said 6. I believe that is a very fair number, and I would even go to allowing 8.

Yes we all agree that foreign players make the game better. They teach the American players the skill they need to learn. They bring a lot to the teams. However, this is a problem the AMNRL let happen.

 

[East Coast Tiger]

I don't think the AMNRL is a big enough organisation to put any restrictions on who can play and who can't just yet. I'd be looking for as many players as possible, particularly if you're looking to start new clubs or if there was a push for a lower grade setup. The development of American players is important but as long as foreign players aren't hindering that I can't see why they would be discouraged. In France the clubs with the most foreign players seem to do best but that is not the case in the US, seemingly, so I wouldn't be too concerned just yet. As long as Americans are getting a chance to play and develop their skills I wouldnt worry about how many foreign players are playing over there.

 

[Kamala]

East Coast Tiger

The import rule has to be changed.

Some teams like Connecticut have a glut of non American players whilst a team that evolved from them, the Northern Raiders, are struggling for numbers and direction. Some of those imports should be directed to them, the Wildcats do not need anymore. I would say the same for the Knights, we do not need anymore imported players. This year was the first year we bought players over just to play and we did this as a result of "keeping up with the Jones'".

We have plenty of U.S born players but we also want to win and it is hard when you are playing a team that is stacked with imports. I am not just talking about players bought over here to play, but ANY foreign born player. If your team has too many, send them to a developing team.

I don't want to hear any BS talk about lowering the standard of the competition. The comp was designed to develop American players. If this puts any foreign players nose out of joint, then F them. They can always go back to where they came from, because if they where any good they would still be there. They shouldn't be strutting around like Kings becuase they play over here. It doesn't take much of a man to monster another who has only played two games and you where playing since you where five. I'm sure if the roles where reversed and it was gridiron the Aussies etc wouldn't like it either.

If you are a foreigner over here for work, thats fine, but you are still included as an import. Encourage your team to send excess imports to nearby teams.

If you want a league made up of Aussies and Brits, go back there, if you can still cut it that is. Otherwise help promote this game to Americans.

If you think I have it in for foreigners you are wrong. I am one.

 

[Tomahawk]

Kamala;

What do you think the number of foreign players a team should have.

And

Everything you said was well said. I think this is a great topic, that I would like to get everyones opinion on.

 

[roopy]

I think the best 'foreign' players would be ex-NRL or ESL players.

At the moment, you arn't paying for players, but some time in the future I think it would be very worthwhile for American teams to sign up an old Fashioned Captain/Coach.
Country teams in NSW and Qld have been doing this for generations. Basically they sign a player who is too old for the NRL, but has all the experience gained in 10 years or so of the 'bigtime' and pay him to be both the coach and star player for the team. Pretty much the role that Nui had for the Bulls in the early years.
A couple of young players who haven't made the grade in Sydney per club would also lift your standards - and these kids should just want accomodation and a part time job arranged.

 

[Kamala]

Roopy

This is the hottest topic in the AMNRL at the moment. I would suggest four or five "imports". This includes work visa and holiday visas. This may be detrimental to the Knights because being NYC we have a very diverse population. But I believe this is the way to go.

For our first four years Matt Astill was our captain/coach. Not a known player but had played lower grades at Manly and Newtown. This year our French guy Gil and him basically coached the team with input from Adam Nable who became our captain when Matty broke his arm. Adam has around 50 first grade NRL games under his belt and most importantly is a top guy who went out his way to help the younger guys. Unlike many foreiners who come over here he had actually done something back home. But he didnt show it by strutting around etc but by helping the younger guys out and insiprational performances on the field. He, I believe is the ideal import.

In our last two games we had nine US born starters. Wildcats maybe a handful. We believe the comp here is to promote the game to Americans and not become a second rate "A grade comp" from Sydney.

 

[spinnerhowland]

Here is the problem.
At what point does a person stop being an IMPORT and BECOME a citizen?
Those players who are now US Citizens but were born overseas must have had considerable time here in the USA to gain their status.
I have a guy who was born in sydney but moved to the USA as a child. Is he an "import"?
I have been here for 9 years now and have not bothered with getting US Citizen ship. Am I still an import?
The truth is there are enough "foriegn players" that now hold status that allows them to be in the following

Non-Imports

- US Citizen
- Permanent Resident (Green Card, Spouse Visa, etc.)
- Work Permit (not a travel VISA) and a person who lives and works in the US for more than 6 months of a year

that the limit on "TRUE IMPORTS" should be capped at 3 per team.

This is the AMERICAN NATION RUGBY LEAGUE not the GUYS FROM OVERSEAS THAT JUST WANT TO COME OVER AND BE A STAR FOR THE SUMMER RUGY LEAGUE.

Although I will conceed that the Axemen have the whole city of Jackonville to ourselves, the reason we have so many guys is the way to operate. We made sure that everything we do was professional and as high profile as we could make it. That is what keeps the local guys into the game.

Only 3 of our 29 players are Non-US citizens and we fared pretty well this year.
We have plans to bring in 1 import next season and his job will be to play and assist me in coaching. The Axemen will be his priority. He will put our events at the TOP of his list and anything else he want to do, such as sight see, travel, etc, will be done when it does not effect the Axemen schedule.

 

[Kamala]

I would suggest only 2 imports (3 month tourist waiver- basically just here to play. maybe 3 non import foreigners (green cards, citizens, work visa etc) in the team for any one game. Then EVERY game, EVERY team would have AT Least 8 American born starters.

 

[Tomahawk]

Spinner;

I would consider you one of the foreign players in the AMNRL. Like I have said before Dave Nui should even be considered a foreign player. You have said yourself that you want you team to be made up of mostly American born players. Well you are not American born, so you should be considered a foreign player.

 

[Tomahawk]

I would suggest only 2 imports (3 month tourist waiver- basically just here to play. maybe 3 non import foreigners (green cards, citizens, work visa etc) in the team for any one game. Then EVERY game, EVERY team would have AT Least 8 American born starters.

Well said Kamala. I would go as far as saying 7 foriegn players on a team. No matter if that person lived in the US for 1 day or 20 years, If he is from another country he is a foreign player. You team then would be made up of mostly all AMERICAN BORN players, and you would have a much closer comp.

Yes some teams may be hurt by thise, however you could see a few more teams form because of it.

 

[lloydy]

I think Spinner has hit the nail on the head. The "problem" with the imports is the difference between players who have been over here for some time amd the ones who are over here just for the summer. I am a member of the Cats and we are blessed with a lot of "imported" talent. But what does that mean, Danny Bull has been here for 8 years has an american wife and 2 kids, same with me, american wife, 3 kids, resident since 94 Also some of the "imports" from the last few years have stayed around and played union and helped out with coaching etc.. That is due to the hard work of people like hot-rod among others who have organised cars, jobs etc so players want to stay or come back year after year. The Cats also do really work hard with the local union teams to get more american born players to play. In that the Cats have been sucessful, especially grooming younger players, who coincedentally, are being coached by some talented "imports" Also do we really want to limit the number of players we have in the pool when some teams can't even raise 13 on a weekly basis.

It's a very tricky question and it defintely is a hot topic. I believe we should limit "true imports" ie the ones that do a hit and run over one summer, but we have to come up with a definition of the term import, and when we do that I'm sure someone will find a way to get around it!!

 

[Tomahawk]

Import - Someone who was not born in the United States, Regardless of citizenship or not.

Looking from teams websites and their roster the following players would all be considered imports or foreign players. I know I have not gotten everyone, but the list is a lot longer then you will think. I know the Wildcats have about 15 guys that fall into this category. Also I know both the MantaRays and Sharks have 1 player that falls into this category. I know nothing about any of the Braves players so I could not put any on the list.

David Nui – Bulls
Marcus Vassilakopoulous – Bulls
Scott Nicholas – Bulls
Jason Gangram – Bulls
Danny Bull – Wildcats
Ben Kelly – Wildcats
David Loyde – Wildcats
Nathan Hollingsworth
Matt Astill – Knights
Gareth Baxendale – Knights
Hayden James – Knights
Adam Sharples – Knights
Guillaume Cieutat – Knights
Col Manner – Knights
Kellen Walker – Knitghts
Logan Johnstone – Knights
Shane O’Driscoll – Knight
Hortatio Cazarian – Knights
Darryl “Spinner” Holland – Axeman
Joshue Nelkin – Axeman
Bob Knoepfe – Axeman
Ben White – Axeman
Rick Brown – Axeman
Max Devonport – Axeman
Siose Muliumu – Warriors
Steve Scanlan – Warriors
Blair Woods – Warriors
Adam Hamon – Warriors
Ewen Robinson – Warriors
Christian Rahui – Warriors
Jacko Ahoy – Warriors
Adam Murphy – Warriors
Daniel Anderson – Warriors
Tim Little – Warriors
Oliver Daller – Warriors
Criag Webster – Slayers
Steve Grant – Slayers
Tony Munnings – Slayers
Kaki Muniafu – Slayers
Phil Hill – Slayers
Tai Vakatal – Slayers
Maoa Laumoli – Slayers
Faasuaga Finueli – Slayers
Luis Tambussi – Slayers
Dave Faimanifo – Slayers
Conway Maraki - Fight

 

[East Coast Tiger]

Where I live numbers in senior football are not as good as they used to be and we would welcome any newcomers to the area with open arms if it meant having more quality players. We'd rather see a heap of new locals start playing and hopefully that will happen too but there's no way we'd turn away any new people to the area even if they were only going to stay for a year. It's beggars can't be choosers. It's not exactly the same thing but it's a similar situation.

I can't see how a league with no reserve grade, no juniors and only 11 senior squads who only most of the time have enough players to complete their fixtures could possibly consider limiting recruitment in any way. Distributing foreign players throughout the league sounds like a good idea but limit the number of them completely and you are limiting the total number of players playing the game. There are more US players playing rugby league now than ever and the more opportunities they get to play the game the better and if foreign players were seriously hindering their chances something should be done. But from what I can tell its often the foreign players that help establish the clubs and allow for the growth of the number of Americans in the first place. I think more foreign players, and more players in general, will mean the opportunity for more clubs and therefore the opportunity for American born players will only increase exponentially.

 

[Loser]

Its funny what happens when the Bulls lose.
Lets see, the bulls won last year & there was no talk about any foreign born players then even when the Cats had played foreigners in that game as well. Infact the league then awards a new team to be run by one of these foreign players who had only been in the USA for one season. Which in effect turned the Raiders into a weak club lucky to survive the year. Also this year Nui had no problems refereeing games with said foreign stacked teams. Also look at pass Tomahawk teams & tell me no foreign born players didnt suit up & play which had no business playing for the USA. I'm a foreigner myself so it doesnt bother me at all but if I was a Yank I'd be pissed.I'm not attacking the League officials as I think they do a great job and its their baby to raise & I'm just a fan on the sideline but they need to be consistant.Enforce the laws you have across the board not when it suits you.Do it from day one & and dont complain after the season.

 

[phat cat]

I think that the overall standard of the game is what is important. by having players in and around the game that have grown up with it you raise the standard of the game exponentially. Many Aussie Ex-Pats that I have spoken to after seeing the Wildcats play the Knights or Warriors Immediately comment on how much better the standard was than they ever expected.

a big reason for that is that these three teams Have very good relationships with more established Rugby Union Clubs that do a good job retaining foreign players for an extended period. These players may or may not have had league experience but tend to gravitate to league rather than Rugby Union 7s and tend to be more skilled than your typical american rugby player. Many of these players are permenant residents (green cards), have working visas, or are in a relationship with and american woman.

That Being said you can't expect these teams to tell these guys that if you want to play league you have to go play for Media or the Raiders or to F off all together? As it has been said before this is not a pro league and these guys have real lives and careers. We are lucky to have that caliber player gravitating toward our league in the first place.

When American guys are arround the game being played at a better standard they in turn can strive to take their game up a notch to that standard, rather than just a bunch of meat heads running into eachother at full speed.

 

[Tomahawk]

Its funny what happens when the Bulls lose.
Lets see, the bulls won last year & there was no talk about any foreign born players then even when the Cats had played foreigners in that game as well. Infact the league then awards a new team to be run by one of these foreign players who had only been in the USA for one season. Which in effect turned the Raiders into a weak club lucky to survive the year. Also this year Nui had no problems refereeing games with said foreign stacked teams. Also look at pass Tomahawk teams & tell me no foreign born players didnt suit up & play which had no business playing for the USA. I'm a foreigner myself so it doesnt bother me at all but if I was a Yank I'd be pissed.I'm not attacking the League officials as I think they do a great job and its their baby to raise & I'm just a fan on the sideline but they need to be consistant.Enforce the laws you have across the board not when it suits you.Do it from day one & and dont complain after the season.

The funny thing is if you read back in some of the earlier threads you will see this topic has already been brought up. I did your homework for you, and you can look at it by clicking here http://forums.leagueunlimited.com/showthread.php?t=148937. The funny thing is this thread, “Overseas players – or not?” you will see it was started by a foreigner, Roopy. Roopy posed this question after he read an article on the Jacksonville Axeman’s website. This article was written way before the Grand Final, so it had nothing to do with that game. As for last years Grand Final the Bulls had 5 foreign players, and that would include Vassy and Nuiy. The year I believe it was 5, and 5 the year before that. So that had no bearing on any of this.

As for the standard of play in the AMNRL it has gotten tremendously better then it was last year. One of the main reasons why the play has gotten better is because of foreign players. Foreign players do have a lot to offer a team, and each team should be able to take advantage of them.

No one is saying that we should eliminate foreign players from the AMNRL. However, some people are saying that we need to look into how many foreign players each team is aloud. I believe that as a league we need to look into this. I think if we limit the number of foreign players each team can have, you will not see the standard of play worsen, but you will see more American born players get opportunities. This then will make the league better. I also believe that you would see more teams form because of this. You would also see the amount of players be anywhere from 17-23, and some teams will not field 30 or more players, like the Bulls.

 

[Kamala]

Lloydy

If you are a foreign player, you are a foreign player no matter how long you been here. If the league has a rule 5 foreign players, then you and Danny Bull count for two and pick who else you want to represen the foreigners. If you have that many foreigners and ex pats create a Wildcats B team.

The piont is If you have 9 foriegn born players in your starting team, even if 3 of them have been here for 10 years and have 18 grandkids, you are still keeping a young American out of the team, which is who we are trying to raise. 5 foreigners is plenty to keep the standard high.

 

[Screech]

This is a very interesting question and one that obviously concerns T-Hawk since this is the second thread about it. I Agree with Phat Cat, I dont think the league is in a position to restrict the players that want to come over. It seems to me that there could be a little jealousy towards your more well equipped clubs. The Wildcats, Knights and Warriors have established relationships and sponsorship that allows them to have large number of import players, why can the other teams do the same? Also well done to the Wildcats, will be a tough crown to keep with the Warriors and Knights sure to toughen up the conference next year.

 

[lloydy]

Well said Screech,

as for Kamala, I can't disagree more with your comments. When ths Cats took 18 to the Knights a few fridays ago should we have fore-feited, when we took 14 to Boston in a hurricaine should we have fore-fitted, etc. etc. that is what would have happened without imports. The Cats are based in an area, as are the Knights, with a lot of foreign born players and we have established a strong and sucessful league club. At this moment league is still the realm of the Brits/aussies/Kiwis/ we do everything we can in CT to develop young American players. Despite our efforts not enough American born players are showing up and the local ex-pats are!

Kamala if you get your wish then watchout for the Wildcats B-side next year!

 

[slow frontrower]

I think is somone is hear permanatly or has played in the AMNRL for more than 2 seasons they should not be counted as anything other than American. How can you say to some one with a US Passport they count as a foriegner? Thats insane.

I love all the whining from the guys who ride the bench for teams that loose.