Question

[Tomahawk]

I think is somone is hear permanatly or has played in the AMNRL for more than 2 seasons they should not be counted as anything other than American. How can you say to some one with a US Passport they count as a foriegner? Thats insane.

I love all the whining from the guys who ride the bench for teams that loose.

Just so you know it the people who have brought this topic up are not whinnying and are not the guys sitting on the bench like you say. Spinner is one individual who has spoken out about this very topic, and I believe he is correct. Last time I checked the “AM” in AMNRL stood for American. Yes foreign players are a part of the AMNRL, and we do not want to discourage any foreign player from helping a team. Like I have said before the main reason why the standard of play has gotten so much better in the last couple of years is because of are foreign players.

I think if you limit the number of foreign players each team you will see the following;

More teams will join the AMNRL
The number of players on each team will be about the same for every team, 17-25 per team.
The standard of play will continue to get better.
More American born players will get their chance to show what they have
The Tomahawks will have a bigger pot to pick from

And I think you could keep adding to my list.

 

[phat cat]

What does the "M" stand for?

 

[spinnerhowland]

Darryl “Spinner” Holland – Axeman (Lived in the USA for 9 years. Resident Alien)
Joshue Nelkin – Axeman (Born Germany but US Citizen. Family lives in the USA)
Bob Knoepfe – Axeman (Born in Australia to US Parents but moved back to the USA as a child)
Ben White – Axeman (Canadian here on permanent work permit with the company he works for)
Rick Brown – Axeman (Moved here recently with work and his wife. Played Union in Scotland)
Max Devonport – Axeman (US Citizen)

When I asked the guys at the start of the season I should have asked were they grew up, not born.

 

[Loser]

Well said Screech,

as for Kamala, I can't disagree more with your comments. When ths Cats took 18 to the Knights a few fridays ago should we have fore-feited,

Why would you forefeit with 18 players. Its a 13 a side game which would have left you with 5 reserves. Oh to be so fortunate

 

[spinnerhowland]

I am in favor of limiting the number of IMPORTS for all teams. Having a team of imports helps no one but we need to create a standard of who is an import and who is not.
Can you please all answer these 3 questions for me with a simple Import or Non Import.
Bob Knoepfel = Born in Australia to American Parents and then moved back to the USA as a young child.
Myself = Lived here for 9 years. Played Rugby League in the USA since 1997. Hold permanent residence status and actively involved in progressing the sport in the USA.
Person Nubmer 3 = Someone who has lived here a year or two by getting various visas or work permits but has no intention in staying in the USA and has no long term goals with the AMNRL.

I answered as follows.
#1 NON-Import.
#2 NON-Import
#3 IMPORT.

There are enough people like me that are now in the AMNRL that we do not need any more than 3 "Imports" per team. If it turns out to be only 2 I would NOT have a problem with that.

The problem is defining who is what.

Maybe we need to define the breakdown into 3 categories.
#1 American Born Citizens
#2 Foriegn Born Citizens and Permanent Residence Imports.
#3 True Imports (The short term guys)

You would allow a team to have 3 guys that fall into number category number 2 and three guys that fall into category number 3.
For every extra player in category 2 you must reduce the number in category 3.
The maximum for category 2 would be 6 (allowing no True Imports)
The maximum for category 3 is three at any time.

 

[Tomahawk]

Darryl “Spinner” Holland – Axeman (Lived in the USA for 9 years. Resident Alien)
Joshue Nelkin – Axeman (Born Germany but US Citizen. Family lives in the USA)
Bob Knoepfe – Axeman (Born in Australia to US Parents but moved back to the USA as a child)
Ben White – Axeman (Canadian here on permanent work permit with the company he works for)
Rick Brown – Axeman (Moved here recently with work and his wife. Played Union in Scotland)
Max Devonport – Axeman (US Citizen)

When I asked the guys at the start of the season I should have asked were they grew up, not born.

And this is what needs to be clarified, what makes you a foreign player or not. Some people like myself believe if you were born in another country you should be considered a foreign player. Other people like yourself think that we should have a set time before you are not considered a foreign player. This is the biggest thing that needs to be clarified.

 

[roopy]

This isn't exactly on topic, but with the 'grandparent' rule for players to represent countries some very odd situations can occur.
George Carmont was once being talked about as a guy who could represent USA because he has American Samoa relatives.
He was born in NZ and was a junior rep for that country.
He has been in the senior NZ training squad.
He played his first senior game of league in NSW so he could represent NSW for SOO.
He has said he wants to play a leading role for Samoa in the 2008 WC.

Another case;
Clint Newton is the son of US Masters winning golfer Jack Newton. He was born in the US when his father was playing the US tour.
He moved to Australia at an early age and went through one of the best junior programmes for RL and played for Australia as a junior Kangaroo.
He is now a very good firstgrader in the NRL.
He is very keen to represent the USA.

 

[roopy]

Perhaps a simple standard could be number of games played.

Anyone from outside US who has played less than 20 games = import. Anyone who plays their first game of League in the US is obviously not an import - whatever their background.
(I picked 20 because a player would need to have been there for at least 2 seasons to play that number - with a little leeway for injuries).

 

[Kurt Angle]

I think your last point is a good point.

I feel the purpose of the classification process of import/non-import is to prevent teams acheiving short term success by stacking a team full of NSW Premier League coming to the USA for one year.

But likewise, you can't prevent a team that recruits a foreign born individual who is committed to the long term growth of the AmNRL.

Darryl is correct with many of his assertion, if someone is committed, a process has to be in place where the individual involved has criteria to move from import status to non-import status.

 

[Screech]

There are enough people like me that are now in the AMNRL that we do not need any more than 3 "Imports" per team. If it turns out to be only 2 I would NOT have a problem with that.

Problem with that is in 97 you were in the same boat as the guys who come over now, who will be "those people" when you're 40 at home married with three junior spinners and dont have the time for the AMNRL anymore? The Game cannot benefit from limiting Americans exposure to these better schooled imports, they may not get much time in year 1 but thats the same as any rookie in any sport, its years 2 and 3 where you will see the influence of these players take effect on the American players. I think that measures need to be in place with all the current teams to have a program that can facilitate 5 imports. The Axeman have a website and sponsorship portfolio that would be the envy of most Jim Beam and QLD Cup sides, surely things can be done to house imports for 6 months. Maybe spinner wants to keep all the imports out so he has a better chance with the seppo sheilas Just kidding buddy I love your work.

 

[Play some footy]

Here is why i feel you need to have a limit on the number of foreign born players -

The majority of the internal guys - with the exception of one of the guys Spinner mentioned having been born in Oz then moved to the states as a youngster - would have started playing footy at 5 or 6 yrs old. By the time they are the average age of an American who is just initially learning how to play the game (which is somewhere in there 20's) the Internationjal player would have 15 + years of valuable experience under there belt. In addition to having a sound knowledge of the rules, there ball skills, line running, and defensive tactics would be far superior to any 21 yr old American just seeing footage of a game for the first time.

The AMNRL is built to develop Americans. Regardless of any way you want to chop it up that is exactly why the league was started. If you were not born in the states, you should have sound background thus an obvious advantage over any local players.

5 would be tops though I think 3 or 4 is a better number. All you really need is a solid 6,7, and 9 to lead you around the park.

If you have an abundance of International players in one area because of its location (like NYC for example) then an additional team should be added to accommodate everyone who wants to play.

At the end of the day, the game should be about developing local talent, not foreigners here for a holiday.

 

[Kamala]

PSF

I agree. You only need a couple of foreign players. With the rues the way they are you could have a nearly full foreign team and in a few years down the track if the rule remains, there could be all foeign teams. The idea is to encourage and promote Americans. Why do you think English clubs have a limits on foreign players. So more locals get an opputunity so they can build their national team. It is even more important in the States where it is so grass roots.

4 or 5 imports, whether you have been here for ten minutes or ten years you are an import. It makes it very clear cut and easy. Ny and Connecticut don't have to bring anyone over, they have enough foreigners. If people are coming over they can play for Philly etc. If Ny or the Cats have enough players then to have a reserve grade then they can do that, but with the same rules. So you wont get what phat cat says, a reserve grade stronger than the first grade. Our top foreign players like Nable(who incidently got transferred from work) have nothing in thir football lives to prove and would happily make way for a young American.

 

[Tomahawk]

PSF

I agree. You only need a couple of foreign players. With the rues the way they are you could have a nearly full foreign team and in a few years down the track if the rule remains, there could be all foeign teams. The idea is to encourage and promote Americans. Why do you think English clubs have a limits on foreign players. So more locals get an opputunity so they can build their national team. It is even more important in the States where it is so grass roots.

4 or 5 imports, whether you have been here for ten minutes or ten years you are an import. It makes it very clear cut and easy. Ny and Connecticut don't have to bring anyone over, they have enough foreigners. If people are coming over they can play for Philly etc. If Ny or the Cats have enough players then to have a reserve grade then they can do that, but with the same rules. So you wont get what phat cat says, a reserve grade stronger than the first grade. Our top foreign players like Nable(who incidently got transferred from work) have nothing in thir football lives to prove and would happily make way for a young American.

Well said

 

[phat cat]

i think i am slowly being convinced that these are good ideas but I'm still not convinced that the league is anywhere near strong enough to turn anybody away be that local ex pats or your "imported" players. at this point there is not enough organization behind the league to keep tabs on everyone.

I guess what i am trying to say is that right now the rule of thumb should be if you are eligible to play to the Tomahawks you should be considered American. But then the Arguement becomes what Makes you eligible to represent the USA? there has got to be some sort of concrete rule out there?

 

[East Coast Tiger]

I guess what i am trying to say is that right now the rule of thumb should be if you are eligible to play to the Tomahawks you should be considered American. But then the Arguement becomes what Makes you eligible to represent the USA? there has got to be some sort of concrete rule out there?

Welcome to international rugby league. There are rules but they are a joke. Under these rules if you count anybody eligible to play for the Tomahawks as an American player you'll find a whole lot of Aussies, Kiwis etc who have never been to the states would be "American". I think if the AMNRL is fair dinkum it will draw a line itself and make it clear who can play for the US and who can't regardless of the RLIF rules.