R12 // Warriors 38-18 Knights @ Mt Smart // Sun 2.00pm

[Baron Vo Mandor]

Pearce is a joke. If you want me to say that I think Pearce is better than Mullen then I'll never say that, because he's not. But Pearce could never get picked if Mullen was bashing the door down and playing like one of the standout halves in the comp on a consistent basis. Mullen has never done that, and he's never done it when it counts.

Saying it's not fair because Mullen is better than Pearce is like being upset that one average singer on The Voice loses a battle to another average singer. If either of them were truly top drawer, there would be no argument.

the fact pearce got picked a million years in a row shows talent has little to do with selections.

 

[jamaman]

Whats with kicking out after 5th! white flag stuff!

 

[K-Man]

the fact pearce got picked a million years in a row shows talent has little to do with selections.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but you're only right to a certain extent.

If Thurston, Cronk and DCE were suddenly eligible for NSW would Pearce, Hodkinson, Mullen or anyone else have a chance? Of course not. But since there are no standout candidates, it has allowed Pearce to (albeit undeservedly) keep getting selected even though he's a proven failure. In all those years someone needed to prove so convincingly they were the best half in NSW that it wasn't even a debate anymore, and I don't believe Mullen has or probably ever will.

So yes in a way he's been treated poorly. But he's had a long first grade career to prove any doubters wrong and he hasn't been able to. Not saying he's not a good player or that we don't need him badly, but I don't blame his entire lack of a rep career on selectors being idiots and nor should he.

 

[Bring it home Knights]

No you never did. Others definitely did though, and vehemently. But it's so obvious and so constant I don't understand how anyone misses it.

Who said on here that he doesn't get pushed back in tackles? I've read posts referring to Gagai and the types of hit ups he makes. However I don't recall ever reading a poster saying that he doesn't get pushed back in tackles :?

 

[Chicken_Hunter]

Am I right in saying that we can now only afford to lose one more game to be a chance of making the top 8?

 

[Yosh]

If we do drop Kidley and Houston? Who comes in? Maybe it's a problem not even WB can fix because he just doesn't have the right tools. The club was owned by a cu*t, we have absolutely no stability at the moment, WB looks to the reserves and sees Newton... We're not in a good place right now...

 

[Zoidberg]

Am I right in saying that we can now only afford to lose one more game to be a chance of making the top 8?

We're not going to make the top 8. Hope that helps answer your question.

And what I meant by saying I wish we had 17 Mullens, is that he tries his heart out each week, uses his shoulder in defence, and loves the club, plus he does have a bit of talent.

 

[Chicken_Hunter]

Yeah I know we won't make it. It's just sad that it's so early in the season and we won't even be a mathematical chance after next week.

 

[Izz]

lol@1qaz. pretty sure he's either Gagai or one of Gagai's less talented cousins.

 

[Tom155]

LeagueHQ ‏@LeagueHQ1 2m
Knights forward Adam Cuthbertson out 4-6 weeks due to a grade two medial ligament injury suffered in Sunday's big loss to the Warriors #NRL

 

[otori]

Gidley was out saying that Knights fans should stick with it as the team won't give up. I think most people on here would agree that we didn't play that badly yesterday but we just capitulated at key moments. Particularly Mullen booting the ball out and Houston dropping it which both lead to tries. We also didn't look like scoring without piggyback penalties.

I think our biggest problem is our style of football just isn't working. We played pretty much on song yesterday in terms of the plan. Didn't drop the ball too mich, not many penalties given away but the defensive nature of Bennett ball means you cover those mistakes.

 

[Serc]

Pretty good summary otori, in particular if we had a bit more punch from our props (yes I know, a constant complaint at this club, probably for the best part of 10 years now) we'd have been a good chance to win yesterday's game (Warriors made almost 150% of the metres that we made)

Its funny, I look at the lineups we had in the finals last year and there's not a huge difference in terms of the prop rotation to now - so we were probably on a knifedge in terms of go-forward then too - very lucky!

 

[1qaz]

Do you watch football or read stats? Want to watch a replay of today's game and focus on Gagai's hitups? Then get back to me.

And I should add I'm actually a fan, as you'll note from other threads I think he's being starved of a decent platform this season and I don't believe he's out of form. Sublime skills and footwork, loads of potential.

But he does get dominated a lot when he comes in looking to help out our useless forwards. Do I blame him for trying? Of course not. Am I arguing he doesn't make a lot of runs because we need him to? Nope. Am I guaranteeing you that anyone who pays attention can see that he often struggles to hold his ground in the contact in a way that someone like McManus doesn't struggle with? Yes. Massive yes.

You continue to ignore what I write. No one is saying he doesn't get pushed back in tackles when taking one out runs but also makes ground as well. After last year's ankle injury against Matai, he just doesn't fight in tackles as hard anymore at risk of another ankle injury. But he's still making close to 10m a run at an average of 150m a game. He sure ain't making all those meters out wide.
McManus takes the ball up differently. He'll often crab across the field then steps back inside and and falls on his stomach giving the impression he's making good meters.

But yes we both can agree Dane shouldn't be taking these runs and is starved of a good platform.
I don't think Boyd has had even 1 line break or try assist all year. This pretty much sums up the Knights attack this season.

 

[K-Man]

Gidley was out saying that Knights fans should stick with it as the team won't give up. I think most people on here would agree that we didn't play that badly yesterday but we just capitulated at key moments. Particularly Mullen booting the ball out and Houston dropping it which both lead to tries. We also didn't look like scoring without piggyback penalties.

I think our biggest problem is our style of football just isn't working. We played pretty much on song yesterday in terms of the plan. Didn't drop the ball too mich, not many penalties given away but the defensive nature of Bennett ball means you cover those mistakes.

Exactly what I've been saying for ages, well before all the losses started piling up. Even after the Sharks game it was clear there had been no turning point, it was just more evidence that when and only when we come up against bad opposition who also play bad football that day, we can capitalise with our boring game plan and win comfortably.

But the biggest problem with our style is that even when we get it right, and a completion rate above 80 per cent combined with few penalties conceded is basically getting it right for us, it still doesn't mean we are any chance of winning because we're so utterly hopeless in attack.

In the early rounds people were saying if we could just get our discipline right we'd be okay. It's pretty clear getting our discipline right is the least of our concerns. We don't actually drop the football all that much and we emerge from most games with excellent completions. We also don't ask a single question of an opposition defensive line that it couldn't answer with its eyes shut.

Coaching against us would be so easy. You would hardly even need a game plan.

 

[K-Man]

You continue to ignore what I write. No one is saying he doesn't get pushed back in tackles when taking one out runs but also makes ground as well. After last year's ankle injury against Matai, he just doesn't fight in tackles as hard anymore at risk of another ankle injury. But he's still making close to 10m a run at an average of 150m a game. He sure ain't making all those meters out wide.
McManus takes the ball up differently. He'll often crab across the field then steps back inside and and falls on his stomach giving the impression he's making good meters.

But yes we both can agree Dane shouldn't be taking these runs and is starved of a good platform.
I don't think Boyd has had even 1 line break or try assist all year. This pretty much sums up the Knights attack this season.

Why are you posting long lists of stats about his running metres if you're not disagreeing with me then? It makes no sense. All I've said is that he gets pushed back in tackles a lot more than most players, so if you agree with that then we agree.

What's the point of telling me that his average running metres is better than so and so? They are meaningless stats. He could make 9 runs of 1 metre and then make a 90 metre break for a total of 99 metres in 10 runs (an impressive average of 9.9 metres per run). Would that mean that 9 times out of 10 he didn't get driven back in the tackle and only make 1 metre? Your post is just a massive pile of meaningless stats, so I ignored it.

The very fact McManus always finds his stomach with momentum after poking his head and shoulders through half gaps is why he is so good at that aspect of the game. Where Gagai will get hit upright and front on, then have others come in and start the shove back, McManus doesn't allow that to happen to him and it means the next tackle after a McManus run is also a good one. If you watch the tackles after a Gagai run they are tough work because the defence is not retreating, in fact it's advancing.

Agreed on Boyd. Build a game plan around a one-tricky cry baby pony, and you get a circus with one trick that nobody cares about. Bennett seems to think it's still 2010-11.

 

[Apey]

A lot of our tactics seemed to be based on backing our defence; kicking the ball out on the 5th, going for penalty goals whenever possible, playing a lot of safety first one-up rubbish. I get the reasoning behind it but how long are we going to try and back our defence before realising our defence just isn't up to it and we need to try something else? If we were actually a good defensive team I wouldn't mind these tactics but for the most part we just aren't.

 

[otori]

Exactly what I've been saying for ages, well before all the losses started piling up. Even after the Sharks game it was clear there had been no turning point, it was just more evidence that when and only when we come up against bad opposition who also play bad football that day, we can capitalise with our boring game plan and win comfortably.

But the biggest problem with our style is that even when we get it right, and a completion rate above 80 per cent combined with few penalties conceded is basically getting it right for us, it still doesn't mean we are any chance of winning because we're so utterly hopeless in attack.

In the early rounds people were saying if we could just get our discipline right we'd be okay. It's pretty clear getting our discipline right is the least of our concerns. We don't actually drop the football all that much and we emerge from most games with excellent completions. We also don't ask a single question of an opposition defensive line that it couldn't answer with its eyes shut.

Coaching against us would be so easy. You would hardly even need a game plan.

It reminds me a lot of watching Hewitt play in the middle part of this decade. His greatest skill was his tenacity and that style worked great. Then one day, Federer comes along and suddenly chasing the ball down until the opponent makes a mistake doesn't work anymore. Lol sort of like Gidley

 

[1qaz]

Why are you posting long lists of stats about his running metres if you're not disagreeing with me then? It makes no sense. All I've said is that he gets pushed back in tackles a lot more than most players, so if you agree with that then we agree.

What's the point of telling me that his average running metres is better than so and so? They are meaningless stats. He could make 9 runs of 1 metre and then make a 90 metre break for a total of 99 metres in 10 runs (an impressive average of 9.9 metres per run). Would that mean that 9 times out of 10 he didn't get driven back in the tackle and only make 1 metre? Your post is just a massive pile of meaningless stats, so I ignored it.

The very fact McManus always finds his stomach with momentum after poking his head and shoulders through half gaps is why he is so good at that aspect of the game. Where Gagai will get hit upright and front on, then have others come in and start the shove back, McManus doesn't allow that to happen to him and it means the next tackle after a McManus run is also a good one. If you watch the tackles after a Gagai run they are tough work because the defence is not retreating, in fact it's advancing.

Agreed on Boyd. Build a game plan around a one-tricky cry baby pony, and you get a circus with one trick that nobody cares about. Bennett seems to think it's still 2010-11.

The only 40m+ run Dane has made all season was that try against Manly last game.
These stats are from the first 8 rounds as well. So there goes your argument out the door.

You only need to look back on the Knights first try against the Bulldogs couple rounds ago. It was on the back of Danes quick play the ball which allow the Knights to shift out to BJ and for McManus to score the very next play.
It's at the 22.30 mark for your reference. Yes, I watch every game twice as I am professional sports gambler. Stats can be misleading but they also have some truth to it as well.

 

[K-Man]

The only 40m+ run Dane has made all season was that try against Manly last game.
These stats are from the first 8 rounds as well. So there goes your argument out the door.

You only need to look back on the Knights first try against the Bulldogs couple rounds ago. It was on the back of Danes quick play the ball which allow the Knights to shift out to BJ and for McManus to score the very next play.
It's at the 22.30 mark for your reference. Yes, I watch every game twice as I am professional sports gambler. Stats can be misleading but they also have some truth to it as well.

Yet almost every stat you named had nothing to do with the point. I think it was obvious I was using the 90m run as an example of why running metres and average run metres is not how you calculate whether a player gets consistently pushed back from the point of initial contact. All I've argued is that happens to Gagai very often, easily enough to make it a pattern not a coincidence.

 

[Rod]

Living in NZ obviously I get the public and media response to Warriors games, and for the most part they were quite impressed with us on Sunday. We battled well for 22-18 and then the Warriors did well to hold us out and then put a couple of late tries on. In previous years that's the kind of game the Warriors may well have lost but credit to them they closed it out well. Johnson showed a lot of maturity and Townsend played his best Warriors game from what I saw.

I know we're sick of hearing words like trying/determination etc. but as I've been saying for a few weeks the only thing standing between our current performances and a couple of wins is attacking potency and taking better options when we have the chance. I say it every week but we still haven't seen a sweeping backline play with Boyd out the back and taking the right pass option. Maybe teams are wise to it now, I don't know, but every time we try and spread it wide it looks laboured and predictable.