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R14 | Storm 16-14 Knights @ AAMI | Sun 3.00pm

Round 14 result :: Storm vs Knights


  • Total voters
    12
  • Poll closed .

Jono078

Referee
Messages
21,202
Who gives a toss if we tried hard.
Who gives a toss if we were missing players
Who gives a toss if we might be a different team when bedsy comes back

Fact of the matter is, we are 4 points out of the 8. There is no making up that ground from here
It's absolutely possible.

You have to look no further than the Bulldogs this year.

All it takes is for us to win a few in a row and some of those in the 8 to slip up and we're right back in it with our positive for and against.
 
Messages
17,035
Was it Houston that just stood there when the ball went back and waited for them to pick it up for a repeat set? Whoever it was it was slack and lazy. They scored soon after.

Not sure, but it was Houston who casually watched billy slater step inside Boyd to score. If house had have made a bit more effort and actually covered the inside it would have been a simple tackle. I was a bit bemused when I saw him on the replay not even showing interest in what slater was up to.
 
Messages
17,035
It's absolutely possible.

You have to look no further than the Bulldogs this year.

All it takes is for us to win a few in a row and some of those in the 8 to slip up and we're right back in it with our positive for and against.

Where do you propose we win those games? We aren't exactly playing the eels and tigers every week. Every other team in the comp I am not confident of beating
 

slotmachine

First Grade
Messages
7,440
seeing as we cant play away from home its probably a bad thing we only have 5 home games left, two of which are storm and roosters. will struggle against the titans too.

at least we get the eels on old boys day
 

undertaker

Coach
Messages
11,074
All ifs and buts and maybe's but if Leilua uses two hands to put the ball down in the corner, we kick clear ...

If the Knights scored the first points in the second they would've went on with it. Bad mistake from BJ.

This.

I had a sinking feeling at the time it happened that that incident would be costly and it was (not condemning Leilua as he had a very good game otherwise). THAT was the critical moment where we could've gone more than a converted try ahead and given the context of the game, we would've been very hard to stop from there

Cram, mate the reality is that teams below us have been beating us also, the saints were an utter rabble for three weeks until we gifted them the game.

We should be called the salvos because everyone who needs a bit of charity, gets it from us.

Storm this week, saints last week, I even expect us to be Parras fourth win of the season.

This.

You forgot to mention the Warriors only had one win under the belt and were coming off a 56pt thrashing when we played them. Given that, it was absolutely pathetic that we lost to them. These are the matches you must win if you want to consider yourself as a premiership contender.

I thought it was one of better performance this season.
The Knights didn't give away too many penalties.
It was rookie mistakes from Roberts and Sims that cost the team in the end.
Both will learn from it.
Waddell stuffing up from play the ball didn't help either.

Agreed. One of the Knights best performances of the season (2nd to our game vs Bulldogs). They played MUCH, MUCH better than they did against the Dragons and much better than I thought we would against the Storm today. Although we showed today that we can match it with the top teams, consistency and not executing the basics when it matters the most - when a game is on the line - have been a telling factor in most of our last 6 losses (where we've led in every one of them).

There are few more frustrating feelings in sport than watching something unfold that seems so obvious, yet it isn't to the people that matter.

When we take early penalty goals to go 2-0, 8-0, or 14-0 we never kick on. The momentum shift is often immediate - within minutes you can almost feel the game turning, like the opposition is thinking "oh so those 2 points matter to you? Great, because we plan on scoring at least 3 or 4 tries so they don't matter to us".

Gallen said very clearly in his interview yesterday that it's a sign of weakness and the defending team feeds off it.

So why do we continue to do it? Because Bennett tells us to.

It's not about the 2 points, it's about the big picture. You have to score a decent tally to beat a team like the Storm. They chip away and chip away and they get you in the end. So that 2 points just isn't important enough.

You get limited chances to score in an NRL game these days - especially when you play conservative football against a good side. If you're just waiting for errors and penalties from your opponent, surely when they provide them you have to go in for the kill?

We clearly aren't capable of grinding out 16-14 wins, so why the hell are trying to? We actually could have won this week and last week by 12+ margins in my opinion, if our mindset had been different.

I put it all down to WB. Happy for him to leave whenever he gets sick of us, to be honest.

No Gidly, no Buderus. I know. But the game was there to be taken by the scruff of the neck by the 17 players we did have. Negative mentality = negative result.

Since Wayne has taken over, he has tried to get us playing the exact style of football he coached at St George. But, as you said, it's just not working.

And you can forget about Buderus. Given he has only played 2 games this year and has been plagued by chronic back and spine problems, he won't be playing beyond this year. Clydesdale needs more game time now from here on in and is the future. Send Waddell back to wherever he came from.

Gower showed today that he is all class. Tyrone Roberts showed today that he is all arse. That pass by Roberts in the final seconds, with a 3 man Newcastle overlap, straight to a Melbourne player, was the reason why Roberts must go.

Wayne Bennett said at the press conference after the game that Buderus will be back next game and that he was pleased with Gower.

So the solution is clear. Buderus at hooker, Gower at scrum half.
This is the only way Newcastle can make the playoffs.

Off to a very good start, Tyrone would be sweating right about now.

I don't know if Gower has had any chronic injury problems (like Buderus, Scott, Tahu and other players Bennett signed) but if he hasn't and he stays fit, he showed today that even at 35 he's still got it. A few years in rugby union - where he played in a position that doesn't get much wear and tear - have definitely served him well and he showed glimpses of the player that won a premiership in 2003 and should've won the Dally M award that year had it not been for a strike between the RLPA and NRL. He's still got that zippyness like Allan Langer had, as was shown towards the very end where he nearly got Beau Scott into open space. I'd like to see how he goes in the halves alongside Mullen in our next game vs Gold Coast in a fortnight. Nevertheless, he definitely must be in the starting XIII for the next game as he's an 80 minute player

And yes, Roberts is definitely the player who is in the hot seat at the moment. Although he's useful for his goalkicking abilities, coachkillers such as that intercept pass he threw straight into Brett Finch at the end is the VERY DIFFERENCE between a premiership winning side and a team struggling to make the 8.
 
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Nuffy

Bench
Messages
4,075
It's absolutely possible.

You have to look no further than the Bulldogs this year.

All it takes is for us to win a few in a row and some of those in the 8 to slip up and we're right back in it with our positive for and against.

Mate, you know we have lost 6 from 7 and don't look like winning one.

Coupled with the fact that our draw isn't exactly easy, we are no chance of making the eight.
 

undertaker

Coach
Messages
11,074
And I agree with whoever it was who asked where the hell is Nathan Tinkler in all of this. He's basically been nowhere to be heard of seen since Wayne came to Newcastle (other than appearing in newspaper articles over unpaid debts). As a TRUE OWNER, he really will need to step up to the plate soon if we don't make the top 8 this year.

I'll take a guess and say he was probably scoffing down all the dishes at Yum Cha in Singapore today (which is very delicious I must say):lol:
 

Yosh

Coach
Messages
12,001
I've never seen this forum so divided before. Half the people think that we should fire WB while the other firmly believe we should stick with him...

I know people are looking at the numbers, 5 losses our of 6, but you have to put the numbers into contest. Out of the 5 losses, I think the one's we should have won were the Sharks, Warriors and the Dragons. Even with Inglis out, the Bunnies were going to be hard to beat. We could have beaten the Raiders but we just weren't in that game. Today, I am unhappy we didn't get the two points but if we play like that week in week out, we'll win more than we lose, and that's enough to get into the 8.

I don't have the stats on me but I think we committed the least penalties we've committed all year. We also had some really good scrambling defense and our back three were superb.

The tries they scored were easily stoppable. We should have runshed up further to cut down Slater's time for the first try and if we wrapped up the ball that Hoffman offloaded, we could have stopped that try as well. Problems that are easily fixable.

We also have terrible service out of dummy half, which can be fixed once Gidley and Bedsy come back. If anything, if any one of them were fit, I daresay, we would have won 3 or 4 of the 5 that we lost recently.

Roberts is a good young player but definitely not the player we need in the halfback spot at the moment. With Gidley and Bedsy out, therefore not providing any direction, we need a Gower and I know WB saw this and that's why Gower is here.

1. Boyd
6. Mullen
7. Gower
9. Gidley
14. Bedsy

That's a spine that can win the comp.

Attitude is something that cannot be fixed easily. However, our team has not lacked attitude (apart from about 2 games) this year. I still think we can make the eight and if we do, we'll go really deep into the finals.
 

undertaker

Coach
Messages
11,074
We could have beaten the Raiders but we just weren't in that game.

Sorry, that's just complete rubbish.

We can make all the excuses in the world that we had so many injuries, we weren't in that game etc. But there's no excuses when you lead by more than two converted tries - 14-0 - and you've completed dominated the opposition for the first 20 minutes, only to conceed 44 consecutive points and not score for the rest of the game. There's just no words to describe how hopelessly pathetic that is.
 

Nuffy

Bench
Messages
4,075
I've never seen this forum so divided before. Half the people think that we should fire WB while the other firmly believe we should stick with him...

I know people are looking at the numbers, 5 losses our of 6, but you have to put the numbers into contest. Out of the 5 losses, I think the one's we should have won were the Sharks, Warriors and the Dragons. Even with Inglis out, the Bunnies were going to be hard to beat. We could have beaten the Raiders but we just weren't in that game. Today, I am unhappy we didn't get the two points but if we play like that week in week out, we'll win more than we lose, and that's enough to get into the 8.

I don't have the stats on me but I think we committed the least penalties we've committed all year. We also had some really good scrambling defense and our back three were superb.

The tries they scored were easily stoppable. We should have runshed up further to cut down Slater's time for the first try and if we wrapped up the ball that Hoffman offloaded, we could have stopped that try as well. Problems that are easily fixable.

We also have terrible service out of dummy half, which can be fixed once Gidley and Bedsy come back. If anything, if any one of them were fit, I daresay, we would have won 3 or 4 of the 5 that we lost recently.

Roberts is a good young player but definitely not the player we need in the halfback spot at the moment. With Gidley and Bedsy out, therefore not providing any direction, we need a Gower and I know WB saw this and that's why Gower is here.

1. Boyd
6. Mullen
7. Gower
9. Gidley
14. Bedsy

That's a spine that can win the comp.

Attitude is something that cannot be fixed easily. However, our team has not lacked attitude (apart from about 2 games) this year. I still think we can make the eight and if we do, we'll go really deep into the finals.

They lack mental toughness, when the game is on the line, they fold. Their attitude is also under question in that rather than hammering teams who are going like busteds, we play down to their level and invariably allow them to win.

I love the way you look for the diamond in the ocean of sh.t but the reality is there, we are underperforming chronically and hoping that some miracles happen.

Even the teams that have had worse injury tolls than us, like the panthers, have found a way to win, we are finding new ways to lose.

The scary thing in all this is that this is likely our roster for next year, I am just as worried that year three of Bennett is going to look like years one and two, a busted arse of an effort.
 
Messages
3,329
And I agree with whoever it was who asked where the hell is Nathan Tinkler in all of this. He's basically been nowhere to be heard of seen since Wayne came to Newcastle (other than appearing in newspaper articles over unpaid debts). As a TRUE OWNER, he really will need to step up to the plate soon if we don't make the top 8 this year.

I'll take a guess and say he was probably scoffing down all the dishes at Yum Cha in Singapore today (which is very delicious I must say):lol:
It was me. I have had a gutful of his passiveness. Whoever signed off on the Stone succeeding Bennett deal is an idiot because we basically painted ourself into a corner. When a club is desperate for money as we were, we had nowhere to go. Total beggars in the street We had one ticket telling us Tinkler was the devil when they themselves were just a bunch of Burro loving sycophants who were about to lose their only claim to fame in life.
The club has become a play thing. No other way to look at it. Why Tinkler doesn't rocket Bennett for the selection processes and the wasted money on recruits is astonishing. If it were Ambromanovich, Bennett would be out on his arse. As I have always maintained, we need an owner who is obssessed with winning. Instead he is a bank with a pulse. A pulse which is about to go into complete heart block if his debts get any worse. I really feel the frustration fellas. I know you do to. I am all out of answers. We are just a running joke.
 

Spot On

Coach
Messages
13,902
Can anyone remember the size of the bonuses Bennett was to be paid if the team made the eight, the four, the GF, Premiers etc??? Tinks is saving a fortune every year we miss the 8:lol:.

Should have won that game, and many others this season after getting away to flying starts.
 

Bring it home Knights

First Grade
Messages
7,575
It was me. I have had a gutful of his passiveness. Whoever signed off on the Stone succeeding Bennett deal is an idiot because we basically painted ourself into a corner. When a club is desperate for money as we were, we had nowhere to go. Total beggars in the street We had one ticket telling us Tinkler was the devil when they themselves were just a bunch of Burro loving sycophants who were about to lose their only claim to fame in life.
The club has become a play thing. No other way to look at it. Why Tinkler doesn't rocket Bennett for the selection processes and the wasted money on recruits is astonishing. If it were Ambromanovich, Bennett would be out on his arse. As I have always maintained, we need an owner who is obssessed with winning. Instead he is a bank with a pulse. A pulse which is about to go into complete heart block if his debts get any worse. I really feel the frustration fellas. I know you do to. I am all out of answers. We are just a running joke.

I have to strongly disagree with the above. You stated that we should have kept Stone over Bennett. I hope you are happy with Tolar and Kaufusi up front. By signing Bennet we were able to get Snowden, Scott, Smith etc. I'm still not ready to throw my hands in the air yet and say we are a terrible team. We are a good team on paper, we are seriously lacking a hooker. In 2013, if you don't have a good hooker, your team is in serious trouble.

When Tinkler bought the knights, a lot of people were worried that he was going to be too involved. Now you are saying he needs to get more involved. BTW who is to say that he hasn't been in contact with Bennett? Unless you have tapped Bennetts phone, then you can't say whether they are in contact or not can you?
 

undertaker

Coach
Messages
11,074
It was me. I have had a gutful of his passiveness. Whoever signed off on the Stone succeeding Bennett deal is an idiot because we basically painted ourself into a corner. When a club is desperate for money as we were, we had nowhere to go. Total beggars in the street We had one ticket telling us Tinkler was the devil when they themselves were just a bunch of Burro loving sycophants who were about to lose their only claim to fame in life.
The club has become a play thing. No other way to look at it. Why Tinkler doesn't rocket Bennett for the selection processes and the wasted money on recruits is astonishing. If it were Ambromanovich, Bennett would be out on his arse. As I have always maintained, we need an owner who is obssessed with winning. Instead he is a bank with a pulse. A pulse which is about to go into complete heart block if his debts get any worse. I really feel the frustration fellas. I know you do to. I am all out of answers. We are just a running joke.

I know it's a different sport, but in cricket, one of the reasons why Australia got out of the doldrums we were in during the '80s (where we only won one test series between 1984 and the '89 Ashes, which is described by many as the beginning of our rise from the dust) and became world champions after beating West Indies in 1995 was because of the brilliant Bob Simpson/Allan Border captain/coach partnership. They made winning an absolute MUST and not a SHOULD. From that they were able to create an environment conducive to winning which eventually culminated in us having a champion team rather than a team of champions. Mark Taylor and Steve Waugh took the development Allan Border and Simpson left over to the next level and made us a feared, dominating force at the highest level.

Now to the crux of your post (talking about RL now:lol:):

I 100% agree with everything you said.

The biggest problem up until Tinkler came along in 2011 has been the Knights administration. Even after the SL-war where wages went up and nearly all players became full-time professionals, the administration still tried to run the club like it was still the semi-professional days of 1988. They never adapted with the times and we have been left behind the pack off the field, they squandered many financial opportunities to grow and expand our revenue pool (I know it's easier for me to see it now that I have my masters degree in finance), our junior development in the lower comps has been completely neglected whereas there was a large emphasis on it when I first started following the Knights in the mid-90s. Also on the financial front, our debt management has been appauling (especially after reading over their past financial reports dating back to 1998).

The list goes on and on, and most of these issues goes back to administrative failure. WHY? Because in Australian sport, or should I say definitely in RL, we have this fixation on believing that ex-players know how to do administrative/executive jobs well. In other words, when you have an "Old Boys Club" (which the Knights have been notorious for having for many years) and nepotism runs rife when this "jobs for the boys" motif is prevalent at board level, the big, tough decisions that need to be made for the betterment of the future of the club take a backseat. Consequences of that? We shot ourselves in the foot taking 2 steps backwards for any step forward we may've made in trying to grow our future.

As a consequence, we really struggled for so many years to attract anyone to Newcastle. Before Tinkler came along, only Ben Kennedy has been the only outstanding signing that I can remember since I started following the Knights in the mid '90s. The rest have either been average or dead wood.

I remember going to the Knights fan day (which was held at night) in 2001 and my dad and I got to walk all over the ground. Man oh man, when we walked into the dressing rooms and press box, our facilities were absolutely crap. Even stadiums in 3rd world countries have better facilities than that. Heck, even Collingwood in the AFL, their facilities made us look like we were an amateur side based in Ethiopia. Problems with adequate training facilities have been a large cause of the constant injury crises we have had for more than a decade. It's quite amazing that champion players like Joey had to put up with such shanty house training conditions for many years.

And funny you mentioned about Rick Stone, who achieved better results and showed far more potential during his extremely short stint in first grade coaching than "Supercoach" Bennett has shown so far at the Knights. He also had the Knights playing a far more expansive, exciting brand of football than what we have dished up over the past 1.5 years, where we've been playing more like the St George Knights (instead a much crappier version that didn't make the finals last year and will struggle to do so this year). I believe that Bennett's time at the Knights is going to severely damage his coaching career and reputation as someone who, although I give him credit for winning at the Dragons with less talent than what Nathan Brown had (although the Dragons were already a team on the cusp of winning the big one and just needed some leadership from the top, and not one of the boys like Brownie, to instill that belief in them), was only able to be a dominant coach when he was able to put up State of Origin-quality sides week in week out at the Broncos - who pretty much were the QLD state of origin side and had most of the players in the Australian side. Not only that, given Bennett is on $1.5 million/year, the Knights could've saved at least half the amount of money, even more if they still had Stone.

And finally, regarding Tinkler, Tinkler is a punter and not an investor. That's how he made his millions. But, not only creating wealth but SUSTAINING the wealth is the true characteristic of an investor and Tinkler's poor money management and extravagant spending is going to come back and bite him in the arse soon in a very big way. He'll be lucky to see out his 10yr commitment to the Knights at the rate his parlous financial state is going. You've got to remember that his investment and companies are very highly leveraged, meaning that he uses a lot of debt to cover equity and that only works when the economy is good. It's going to hurt him now the economy is crap. But as a leader, I agree with you hence why I said that besides reading about him in the papers of whatever Tom, Dick or Harry is trying to sue him for unpaid debt etc, I have not heard anything about Tinkler in relation to the Knights since Bennett started at the beginning of last year. Haven't heard anything about whether or not he is happy or angry or sad about how the Knights are going, or about any recruitment decisions etc. And to me, that is a real lack of leadership on Tinkler's behalf. You're correct about those owners in the EPL or American sports. They'd be absolutely filthy and all over the situation if the Knights were playing in one of those comps.
 
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Burwood

First Grade
Messages
5,003
Didn't Tinkler play a game or two up in the coalfields years ago? Just the guy that you want dictating team selections and recruitment to a 7-time premiership winning coach.
 

Yosh

Coach
Messages
12,001
They lack mental toughness, when the game is on the line, they fold. Their attitude is also under question in that rather than hammering teams who are going like busteds, we play down to their level and invariably allow them to win.

I love the way you look for the diamond in the ocean of sh.t but the reality is there, we are underperforming chronically and hoping that some miracles happen.

Even the teams that have had worse injury tolls than us, like the panthers, have found a way to win, we are finding new ways to lose.

The scary thing in all this is that this is likely our roster for next year, I am just as worried that year three of Bennett is going to look like years one and two, a busted arse of an effort.

I don't think our roster is all that bad. Most of our starting 13 would make the starting 13 of most other sides in the NRL.

I know I'm always uber optimistic but, if anything, I think we've been unlucky with injuries. LOL, I know it sounds like an excuse, and other teams like the Panthers etc have had worse injuries than us but if we had Bedsy or Kidley or JSmith for the past month and a half, I really believe that we would have won 3 or 4 that we lost.

If we can stay injury free for the rest of the year, I'm confident we can make the eight and make a real push into the finals.
 

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