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Big Pete

Referee
Messages
29,246
Hmm, I disagree on Batista. For the bulk of his career I'd agree, he was cutting Sid Vicious esque promos, but as soon as he turned heel he was cutting these awesome promos that almost made me feel bad he was leaving. Similar story with Henry, when he was just being the smiley big guy, nobody outside of his family and maybe Vinny Mac cared about him, but when as soon as he turned heel he's become one of the most respected personalities on the show from all markets - it's amazing to think the IWC has accepted him, but they have and he deserves it.

And then you see guys like Jack Swagger, there's some real potential in Swagger, he's cut some funny promos in the past, but over the past 12-18 months he's given very little mic. time to really establish himself. I also think that's true for a guy like Ziggler and Orton who have impressed me outside of the WWE. Even within the company though, Orton has impressed me on the few off occasions, his Orton updates in late 2002/03 made him stand out and I recall back before HHH ruined his momentum at Mania, he was cutting promos that were being heralded as some of the best in years.

You bring up a guy like Venis, and I definitely disagree. Don't get me wrong here, Venis had personality but the wrestler who portrayed him, Sean Morley, had little. Outside of cutting his generic shallow gimmick promos, can you remember one decent promo he had?

Heck, even D-X post Michaels only really had Road Dogg. Even Triple H, is fairly limited. He might have 1-2 decent lines, but the rest of the promo comes off as filler or damages the company and if you think about it, his best promos were usually carried by somebody else (Michaels, Dogg, Steph, Flair) , or was against somebody else (Rock, Austin, Foley, Punk etc.) who could carry the promo. The likes of X-Pac, Chyna and Gunn were carried in that group, promo wise.

But getting back to Venis and gimmick promos, they don't prove you have personality. Case in point, John Morrison. His Shaman of Sexy gimmick had everybody convinced he was the next HBK but when they were trying to loosen the gimmick to broaden his appeal; suddenly people realised how boring he really was.
 

Moffo

Referee
Messages
23,986
Hmm, I disagree on Batista. For the bulk of his career I'd agree, he was cutting Sid Vicious esque promos, but as soon as he turned heel he was cutting these awesome promos that almost made me feel bad he was leaving. Similar story with Henry, when he was just being the smiley big guy, nobody outside of his family and maybe Vinny Mac cared about him, but when as soon as he turned heel he's become one of the most respected personalities on the show from all markets - it's amazing to think the IWC has accepted him, but they have and he deserves it.

And then you see guys like Jack Swagger, there's some real potential in Swagger, he's cut some funny promos in the past, but over the past 12-18 months he's given very little mic. time to really establish himself. I also think that's true for a guy like Ziggler and Orton who have impressed me outside of the WWE. Even within the company though, Orton has impressed me on the few off occasions, his Orton updates in late 2002/03 made him stand out and I recall back before HHH ruined his momentum at Mania, he was cutting promos that were being heralded as some of the best in years.

You bring up a guy like Venis, and I definitely disagree. Don't get me wrong here, Venis had personality but the wrestler who portrayed him, Sean Morley, had little. Outside of cutting his generic shallow gimmick promos, can you remember one decent promo he had?

Heck, even D-X post Michaels only really had Road Dogg. Even Triple H, is fairly limited. He might have 1-2 decent lines, but the rest of the promo comes off as filler or damages the company and if you think about it, his best promos were usually carried by somebody else (Michaels, Dogg, Steph, Flair) , or was against somebody else (Rock, Austin, Foley, Punk etc.) who could carry the promo. The likes of X-Pac, Chyna and Gunn were carried in that group, promo wise.

But getting back to Venis and gimmick promos, they don't prove you have personality. Case in point, John Morrison. His Shaman of Sexy gimmick had everybody convinced he was the next HBK but when they were trying to loosen the gimmick to broaden his appeal; suddenly people realised how boring he really was.

take your blinkers off sunshine. batista is f**king awful, has the personality of a gnat
 

DB

First Grade
Messages
6,401
I agree.... HellTista was the best thing ever.

I'm not sure if it was posted here or somewhere else, but I agree that I am all for a Mark Henry title reign all the way to Wrestlemania, where he dominates everyone and no-one is able to find a way to beat him, and Daniel Bryan cashes in at Wrestlemania, and makes Henry submit. It would cement Bryan, and sell him as the best submission wrestler in the wwe.
 

Mr Saab

Referee
Messages
27,762
I But for sheer nostalgia, you cant go past the team of:

Jesse Ventura, Vince McMahon, and Bruno Sammartino.

With of course a Special Update by Lord Alfred Hayes and guest interview by Mean Gene Okerlund.


Those three were great. Esp how Jesse would pay out on Bruno. Great memories and great times.
 

RedVDave

First Grade
Messages
6,063
I don't know how to multi quote so forgive me this could get messy.

Hmm, I disagree on Batista. For the bulk of his career I'd agree, he was cutting Sid Vicious esque promos, but as soon as he turned heel he was cutting these awesome promos that almost made me feel bad he was leaving.

I agree his heel run was very good but it lasted what 4 months? Does 4 months of not good but improved promos really make him have personallity? No he's promos could not have gotten worse he was so bland that his heel promos just seemed really good but in hindsight it was just refreshing.

Similar story with Henry, when he was just being the smiley big guy, nobody outside of his family and maybe Vinny Mac cared about him, but when as soon as he turned heel he's become one of the most respected personalities on the show from all markets - it's amazing to think the IWC has accepted him, but they have and he deserves it.

Again Mark henry has in my eyes always been a good heel! he had a okay run in 2003-2004 again in 2006-2008 and his recent HOP gimmick has really sold him as a monster heel no doubt! But outisde of "i'm stronger than you so I am gonna kick your arse" has he really done that has made say wow this guy is a great talker! yes he cut a very funny heel promo at NOC "I ain't sharing this moment with none of ya!" But again does one promo really make a personality? It's just simple trash big man tough guy talk!

And then you see guys like Jack Swagger, there's some real potential in Swagger, he's cut some funny promos in the past, but over the past 12-18 months he's given very little mic. time to really establish himself.

Yes Swagger has potential no doubt! I'll give him the benefit of the doubt he has been booked like utter crap since he left ECW.

I also think that's true for a guy like Ziggler and Orton who have impressed me outside of the WWE. Even within the company though, Orton has impressed me on the few off occasions, his Orton updates in late 2002/03 made him stand out and I recall back before HHH ruined his momentum at Mania, he was cutting promos that were being heralded as some of the best in years.

Disagree about Dolph he has only been talked about since 'dating' Vickie who is a heat magnet let's face it she's the brains behing the operation. Nope Orton is terrible I would argue the most overratted bloke on the roster: monotone, repetitive, slow, mumbling, boring shows zero personallity on all promos I can't take him seriosuly everytime he opens his talks I feel drowsy

You bring up a guy like Venis, and I definitely disagree. Don't get me wrong here, Venis had personality but the wrestler who portrayed him, Sean Morley, had little. Outside of cutting his generic shallow gimmick promos, can you remember one decent promo he had?

The right gimmick can equal very good personallity take a guy like Goldust for example as Dustin Runnells he is plain, boring and the typical underdog babyface but as Goldust he's funny can be a very good heel (check out his work from 1995 to 1998) plays his role very role which whatever that is the corwd always buys as Goldust he's got it! Just on VV I can't think of a specific promo to be honest but look at his work from 1998 onward he always got a huge reaction out of the crowd as a heel or face.

Heck, even D-X post Michaels only really had Road Dogg. Even Triple H, is fairly limited. He might have 1-2 decent lines, but the rest of the promo comes off as filler or damages the company and if you think about it, his best promos were usually carried by somebody else (Michaels, Dogg, Steph, Flair) , or was against somebody else (Rock, Austin, Foley, Punk etc.) who could carry the promo. The likes of X-Pac, Chyna and Gunn were carried in that group, promo wise.

I agree HHH is overatted I can't stand the bloke he is very stale now and has been since evolution disbanded but wheter I like him or not he has more personality in his pinky: Than hardy, mysterio, dolph and henry combined. Especially during the attitude era and even though he is stale now still does have more personality than those guys.
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Big Pete

Referee
Messages
29,246
Good reply but I can't help but feel you missed my point.

I get that these 'characters' don't have a lot of personality, in fact, that's my point. The WWE doesn't showcase these guys properly and the few times they've had their opportunities or shown something more outside of television leads me to believe differently.

My point about Venis is, his character was over and suited that era, in reality, the performer was just a regular guy who's really nothing special on the mic. but the likes of Russo really gave Morley something to sink his teeth into and he made it work. Same thing with Goldust, but for the life of me, I can't believe that character got over. Rhodes has my infinite respect for getting that gimmick over.

And I know you're exaggerating but apart from shooting on or burying people, Triple H really doesn't have a lot of personality other than 'I am the game-ah and I am that good-ah'. Aside from Mysterio who's basically nothing unless he's referencing one of the most charismatic wrestlers of all time - but that's fine because he does most of his talking inside the ring anyways, the rest really aren't that far behind.
 

Big Pete

Referee
Messages
29,246
There is.

They're too busy falling asleep and bagging one another.

Lack of storylines doesn't help.
 

Moffo

Referee
Messages
23,986
Good reply but I can't help but feel you missed my point.

I get that these 'characters' don't have a lot of personality, in fact, that's my point. The WWE doesn't showcase these guys properly and the few times they've had their opportunities or shown something more outside of television leads me to believe differently.

My point about Venis is, his character was over and suited that era, in reality, the performer was just a regular guy who's really nothing special on the mic. but the likes of Russo really gave Morley something to sink his teeth into and he made it work. Same thing with Goldust, but for the life of me, I can't believe that character got over. Rhodes has my infinite respect for getting that gimmick over.

And I know you're exaggerating but apart from shooting on or burying people, Triple H really doesn't have a lot of personality other than 'I am the game-ah and I am that good-ah'. Aside from Mysterio who's basically nothing unless he's referencing one of the most charismatic wrestlers of all time - but that's fine because he does most of his talking inside the ring anyways, the rest really aren't that far behind.

Lol at your ragging on hunter. Did you see when he was hunter Hearst helmsley back in the mid 90s? He had twice the personality of most around him during the dark days of the mid 90s

I really don't get your perspective on things
 

Whos Ya Daddy

First Grade
Messages
5,699
Lol at your ragging on hunter. Did you see when he was hunter Hearst helmsley back in the mid 90s? He had twice the personality of most around him during the dark days of the mid 90s
I'm sure he carried Shawn Michaels' bags with great personality.
 

Big Pete

Referee
Messages
29,246
why did it 'suck balls'

Two dimensional and incredibly phoney. That sort of gimmick works well on guys like Regal (as long as you create that contrast between inside and outside of the ring) but Triple H was the wrong candidate. It'd be like giving the gimmick to Arnold.
 
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