Rate Gareth Widdop

[Old Timer]

Careful Rufus Rex its politically incorrect to criticise how Widdop has been playing. There seem to be any number of reasons why its not fair to question his form. Its either Benji or Mary or Lafai or because its a full moon or something.

I don't accept that the Captain and playmaker is playing poorly and he maintains his position in the team even if there is an excuse. The bottom line is his defence has been poor, his game management has been poor, his kicking has been poor, his captaincy has been poor, his running has been poor, his setting up play has been poor.

f**k me some of you people love to twist things.
Blame Widdop for what he is responsible for but don't lumber him with everyone else baggage as well.
He defended on the weakest side, with the weakest links around him.
Widdop's job was made much harder because of Lafai and Nightingale and that is a simple fact.
Lafai didn't get credited with many missed tackles because the lazy prick never even attempted then. Widdop makes the attempt having had to mark 2 players and is then not in the best position to tackle either but he gets credited with the miss.
Widdop is out of form and playing poorly and that is a fact but at least try to be even handed in your assessment of him and also the interpretation of peoples posts.

 

[dino2170]

i wonder if our esteemed dufus of a coach are reading these comments. AND WHAT IF WE GET HAMMERED ON SATURDAY???????

 

[Lovemedragons]

f**k me some of you people love to twist things.
Blame Widdop for what he is responsible for but don't lumber him with everyone else baggage as well.
He defended on the weakest side, with the weakest links around him.
Widdop's job was made much harder because of Lafai and Nightingale and that is a simple fact.
Lafai didn't get credited with many missed tackles because the lazy prick never even attempted then. Widdop makes the attempt having had to mark 2 players and is then not in the best position to tackle either but he gets credited with the miss.
Widdop is out of form and playing poorly and that is a fact but at least try to be even handed in your assessment of him and also the interpretation of peoples posts.

I think we can blame him for being 'out of form' for pretty much 2 years and not being cluey enough to find a way back like most marquee players would have.

 

[Old Timer]

I think we can blame him for being 'out of form' for pretty much 2 years and not being cluey enough to find a way back like most marquee players would have.

Not disagreeing he is out of form, I think 2 years is not quite right but no doubt he has been poor and is struggling.
I just don't agree with people's estimation re the defence side of it.
Lafai would make anyone around him look ordinary in defence and this would also be pulling Widdop down even further.
Lafai by far and away was the major contributor of the defensive lapses on the LHS also compounded by Nighy coming in off the wing.

 

[Jubileeboy]

Widdop is not an organising half in any way shape or form. This hurt the last two years in that we had two running 5/8s and no organising half. That was f**ked up. Now, because he is 6 and captain it seems like he thinks he has to be the organising half esp when McCrone is off the field. Responsibility is forcing him into a role that isn't his strength.

Widdop - 7
Mann - 6
Dugan - Centre
Dufty - 1
Widdop and Mann both have experience in those positions. Just pick a halves combination and fkn stick with it for at least a month. These poor bastards are training not knowing who will be playing where each week. The same shit from McGregor for the last 2 years with absolutely no continuity for the halves pairing. I think 3 weeks with the same halves was all we got last year and if it wasn't that, the bloody centres got juggled around.
Alternatively, a new coach would probably recognise this and play to their strengths !

 

[Carlton]

f**k me some of you people love to twist things.
Blame Widdop for what he is responsible for but don't lumber him with everyone else baggage as well.
He defended on the weakest side, with the weakest links around him.
Widdop's job was made much harder because of Lafai and Nightingale and that is a simple fact.
Lafai didn't get credited with many missed tackles because the lazy prick never even attempted then. Widdop makes the attempt having had to mark 2 players and is then not in the best position to tackle either but he gets credited with the miss.
Widdop is out of form and playing poorly and that is a fact but at least try to be even handed in your assessment of him and also the interpretation of peoples posts.

Widdops defence was poor regardless of who was outside him. Maybe some of the defensive issues on that side of the field actually started with Widdop's defence.

My argument is Widdop has been out of form for a long time now which given his role as Captain and playmaker means until it is addressed the team can't improve. I don't rate Mary's coaching and think it is the biggest issue to be fixed but I don't accept the argument that all of Widdop's failures are due to Mary.

No one is twisting arguments except you. Stop trying so hard to find excuses for Widdop. I don't think he is the only problem, I think he is one of the problems and I believe his shortcomings are not due to other people.

 

[ALSGI]

Widdops defence was poor regardless of who was outside him. Maybe some of the defensive issues on that side of the field actually started with Widdop's defence.

My argument is Widdop has been out of form for a long time now which given his role as Captain and playmaker means until it is addressed the time can't improve. I don't rate Mary's coaching and think it is the biggest issue to be fixed but I don't accept the argument that all of Widdop's failures are due to Mary.

No one is twisting arguments except you. Stop trying so hard to find excuses for Widdop. I don't think he is the only problem, I think he is one of the problems and I believe his shortcomings are not due to other people.

The team would be far better without Lafai, Widdop and Nighty. There's three problems right there that a decent coaching team (not just Mary) could address immediately.

 

[Red V for life]

I think one of the biggest tell tale signs of Mary's ineptitude and where the buck stops for me is if it is true Widdop:
- has lost all confidence; or
- is counting down the days to get the hell outta there; or
- just has nothing more to give for the cause for whatever other reason; or
- it's a combination of the above,

he should not be playing first grade. SIMPLE!
Yet, he keeps getting selected which doesn't make much sense to me and doesn't do anyone any favours.

Anyway, i hope he performs well this season, which I assume is his last in the Red V given all I hear on a possible contract extension is crickets in the far off distance.

 

[blacksafake]

Attempting to place an objective rating on Widdop is difficult.

Either you like him as a player, or you don't.

My contribution to this thread is to simply highlight that only two-years ago, he was in RLW's Top 20 ranked players. Last year, that figure fell significantly to no. 97.

I'll also point out (again) a quote attributed to Craig Bellamy when Widdop announced he was joining St. George Illawarra.

"(They) have a good one".

Personally I believe Widdop is an extremely gifted footballer who's suffering a malaise of low confidence hastened by incredibly inept coaching by Paul McGregor.

Bingo.
I personally hope we can keep him for next year with the arrival of a true half & hopefully a decent coach i'm sure his confidence will soon be back.

 

[Old Timer]

Widdops defence was poor regardless of who was outside him. Maybe some of the defensive issues on that side of the field actually started with Widdop's defence.

My argument is Widdop has been out of form for a long time now which given his role as Captain and playmaker means until it is addressed the team can't improve. I don't rate Mary's coaching and think it is the biggest issue to be fixed but I don't accept the argument that all of Widdop's failures are due to Mary.

No one is twisting arguments except you. Stop trying so hard to find excuses for Widdop. I don't think he is the only problem, I think he is one of the problems and I believe his shortcomings are not due to other people.

I've already agreed he is sadly out of form but that doesn't mean I believe every single facet of his game is bad.
Now because I don't agree with your opinion, you accuse me of twisting things or making excuses.
Does he miss some tackles sure he does, but so does everyone.
The one he missed in the CS was a shocker but that should not define everything he does.
You and others keep quoting statistics but I know what I see and why those statistics are as they are and I don't agree re what some people claim about his defence being shocking.
It's not defending him it's not making excuses it's stating my opinion you twerp.

 

[possm]

Widdop to fullback is plain dumb.

Firstly, you are replacing one of the best defensive backs in the game with one of the worst. Widdop was top 10 in missed tackles last year.

You are replacing one of the games best kick returners with a bloke that likes to play in a dinner suit.

Lastly, he will still get in the way of the attack. He will chime into the line as a fullback and still have absolutely no idea what to do and end up kicking into the legs of the defenders or some other crap.

The line between 1 and 6 in the modern game if you play your halves either side of the field is very blurred.

Widdop to 1 will be a clusterf**k.

There is every chance you may be right! However, please consider the following:
1. Right now Widdop is the main obstacle in attack. He has no confidence and really is oblivious to the effects of his numerous mistakes.
2. Dugan WILL move to right centre at this club and any future club. His request to be selected at fullback is only related to his desire to maximise the value of his next contract.
3. Dugan's selection at right centre with Milne at left centre would give the team a very potent backline - especial with Mann and Field in the halves.
4. Decisions have to be made regarding the extension of Widdop's and Dugan's contract. We all know what both bring to the table in their current positions. The team is not performing well and so it is time to shake things up and see if things can improve.

 

[BringTheNoise]

2. Dugan WILL move to right centre at this club and any future club. His request to be selected at fullback is only related to his desire to maximise the value of his next contract.

This myth really f***ing annoys me and it keeps getting regurgitated on this forum.

When has Dugan EVER requested to be selected at fullback? He has stated on the record both a preference to play at centre and that he will play wherever is best suited to the team.

As an incumbent State of Origin and Test player his value as a player is secure regardless of where he is selected for the Dragons.

Please stop with this crap.

 

[RufusRex]

Our club is f**ked .. Aitken will be in the centres for the next three years f**king everything up.
Be prepared for Dugan/Aitken as our centres and our wingers dying of boredom.

Anyway, I can actually see us losing both Widdop and Dugan - this is not what I would do but I can see it happening. With Hunt on so much cash, Aitken signed for 3 years and the presence of juniors albeit untried in Dufty/Field then I think the cap and our inability to compete in the FTA arena will see them both leave us.

Also forget about Dugan plays right centre for Australia so he is not a fullback.
Pretty much the entire backline for Australia was made up of fullbacks last test ...
Boyd, Inglis, Ferguson, Dugan, Holmes ... Four of the 5 definitely first choice fullbacks at their clubs and Ferguson having spent recent time at FB also.

 

[Carlton]

I've already agreed he is sadly out of form but that doesn't mean I believe every single facet of his game is bad.
Now because I don't agree with your opinion, you accuse me of twisting things or making excuses.
Does he miss some tackles sure he does, but so does everyone.
The one he missed in the CS was a shocker but that should not define everything he does.
You and others keep quoting statistics but I know what I see and why those statistics are as they are and I don't agree re what some people claim about his defence being shocking.
It's not defending him it's not making excuses it's stating my opinion you twerp.

Old Timer you're the one who accused posters of twisting things and have a look, I have never quoted statistics. I have been expressing my opinion on his form based on what I see.

Which areas of his play do you believe are up to scratch?
Ball running
Game management
Playmaking
Defence
General kicking
Goal kicking
Captaincy

And you have been defending him and making excuses. If he isn't good enough, for what ever reason, he should not be the captain and playmaker. This role is too important to the team. Just like Mary should not be coach.

 

[possm]

Widdop - 7
Mann - 6
Dugan - Centre
Dufty - 1
Widdop and Mann both have experience in those positions. Just pick a halves combination and fkn stick with it for at least a month. These poor bastards are training not knowing who will be playing where each week. The same shit from McGregor for the last 2 years with absolutely no continuity for the halves pairing. I think 3 weeks with the same halves was all we got last year and if it wasn't that, the bloody centres got juggled around.
Alternatively, a new coach would probably recognise this and play to their strengths !

Yea, these things need to be sorted in the off-season. It seems to me not enough time and effort given to this. Instead training is pre-occupied with fitness, strength and body building. Why not skills trainging and short practice games between the Dragons and Illawarra during the week in the off-season.

 

[getsmarty]

I've already agreed he is sadly out of form but that doesn't mean I believe every single facet of his game is bad.
Now because I don't agree with your opinion, you accuse me of twisting things or making excuses.
Does he miss some tackles sure he does, but so does everyone.
The one he missed in the CS was a shocker but that should not define everything he does.
You and others keep quoting statistics but I know what I see and why those statistics are as they are and I don't agree re what some people claim about his defence being shocking.
It's not defending him it's not making excuses it's stating my opinion you twerp.

Agree old timer..but Lafai was also part of the problem with the charity shield try. Pairing Lafai with Widdop in defence just doesn't work.

P.S For all Mary's talk about "D" he still hasn't addressed the compressed line issues with slow outside men and fixed the above problem.

 

[Old Timer]

Old Timer you're the one who accused posters of twisting things and have a look, I have never quoted statistics. I have been expressing my opinion on his form based on what I see.

Which areas of his play do you believe are up to scratch?
Ball running
Game management
Playmaking
Defence
General kicking
Goal kicking
Captaincy

And you have been defending him and making excuses. If he isn't good enough, for what ever reason, he should not be the captain and playmaker. This role is too important to the team. Just like Mary should not be coach.

Vas, Glenn 01, Sigurd, or whoever you are today
You keep lengthening the field or widening the goal posts to get your hatred of Widdop as the front issue.
Now I am not sure if you are just wilfully missing things or so myopic you can't see anything perhaps a combination of both.
I have stated that Widdop has been poor, below form etc etc so that is a given.
The issue being debated now is his defence and I am not agreeing with you or some others that his defence is bad.
People quoted stats of how many tackles he missed and I offered logical reasons for why that is so IMO.
So get it through your thick head, I do not agree that Widdop's defence is poor and I also believe there are logical reasons (already explained) why the missed tackle stats are as they are.
This is not making any excuse it is just my opinion which does not agree with yours and that of others.
As usual you try to draw people onto 6 or 7 other issues about Widdop instead of sticking to the actual subject matter.
Because he is poor at some things does not make him poor at all things which is the belief you and your alter ego's have.
By all means hang him for what he is guilty of, but don't throw a couple of unsolved murders in with him, instead hang those responsible for those crimes.
Just admit it Lafai and Nighty were shit on the LHS defence and that being the case offered little or no assistance to the people inside them namely Widdop & JT.

 

[since77]

Pretty much the entire backline for Australia was made up of fullbacks last test ...
Boyd, Inglis, Ferguson, Dugan, Holmes ... Four of the 5 definitely first choice fullbacks at their clubs and Ferguson having spent recent time at FB also.

Thats really interesting - had never thought about that. A testament to the fact those players really are elite that they can slot into other positions at the highest level so adeptly.

Don't write Dugan off as a potent centre for the Dragons if he's running of a decent set of halves - unfortunately he's never had the luxury of that while he's been here. The try-assist pass he threw in the charity shield was a prefect example of his potential strengths playing in that position. Thats what he should be doing - that and running.

Unfortunately Mc Gregor is persisting with him as a fullback, resulting in the pass he threw into row 4 of the crowd in the same game.

 

[Carlton]

Vas, Glenn 01, Sigurd, or whoever you are today
You keep lengthening the field or widening the goal posts to get your hatred of Widdop as the front issue.
Now I am not sure if you are just wilfully missing things or so myopic you can't see anything perhaps a combination of both.
I have stated that Widdop has been poor, below form etc etc so that is a given.
The issue being debated now is his defence and I am not agreeing with you or some others that his defence is bad.
People quoted stats of how many tackles he missed and I offered logical reasons for why that is so IMO.
So get it through your thick head, I do not agree that Widdop's defence is poor and I also believe there are logical reasons (already explained) why the missed tackle stats are as they are.
This is not making any excuse it is just my opinion which does not agree with yours and that of others.
As usual you try to draw people onto 6 or 7 other issues about Widdop instead of sticking to the actual subject matter.
Because he is poor at some things does not make him poor at all things which is the belief you and your alter ego's have.
By all means hang him for what he is guilty of, but don't throw a couple of unsolved murders in with him, instead hang those responsible for those crimes.
Just admit it Lafai and Nighty were shit on the LHS defence and that being the case offered little or no assistance to the people inside them namely Widdop & JT.

I'm Carlton, always have been, always will be. Don't throw in that old chestnut of trying to discredit someone by implying they're someone else, just try sticking to the arguments.

Old Timer the only person trying to change the scope of the discussion is you. Its not a matter of drawing people into 6 or 7 other issues, or widening the goalposts, or lengthening the field, it is you trying to limit the discussion to one point. My discussion about Widdop has never been just his defence. I don't hate Widdop as a person ( I don't know him) but I don't want him in the team based on his form. You like to talk as if you are the spokes person for the majority but, there are just as many people who would prefer if he wasn't the playmaker as there are who would like to give him the benefit of the doubt.

You believe his defence is fine, I don't. You believe his poor defence was due to his outside men and I think it was his poor inside defence causing them problems.

You keep saying he is not poor at everything, so what is he acceptable at? I have stated what I think he is poor at.

 

[Willow]

Widdop to fullback is plain dumb.

Firstly, you are replacing one of the best defensive backs in the game with one of the worst.

Who said anything about replacing?