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Rd 1 vs Tigers.

Iron Lion

Juniors
Messages
1,216
2, 3, 4 are going to make or break Cappy's career at the Warriors

Id add in 5 as well. Dont think any coach got the best out of Vatuvei. I suspect for Cappy to get on top of this thing he has to have the balls to drop the beast or shift him to a new position. Id have Manu starting but id play him out of the 2nd row/lock position. Make or break his career.

Also reason for moving Vatuvei is will force the team to play with a new dynamic and I think Manu needs the challenge of playing in the forwards to revitalize his career.

1. RTS
2. Fusitua
3. Lolohea
4. Kata
5. Hurrell
6. Robson
7. Johnson
8. Matulino
9. Luke
10. Vete
11. Thompson
12. Hoffman
13. Mannering

14. Henry/Roache
15. Vatuvei
16. Lillyman/Lisone
17. Sao/Sipley
 

Shaun Hewitt

First Grade
Messages
6,503
Id have Manu starting

15. Vatuvei


:crazy::crazy:

But to your points
Its not just the backs that will define Cappys success, alot rides on the forwards. Backs will find it hard to get into their grove if they don't have any go-forward. They need to lay the platform to allow the backs to do their thing.

First few rounds we will see how the Beast goes. We have the depth at the back to contemplate moving him
 

Iron Lion

Juniors
Messages
1,216
:crazy::crazy:

But to your points
Its not just the backs that will define Cappys success, alot rides on the forwards. Backs will find it hard to get into their grove if they don't have any go-forward. They need to lay the platform to allow the backs to do their thing.

First few rounds we will see how the Beast goes. We have the depth at the back to contemplate moving him

I would actually probably play him at 13, gear up all his training to cope with the rigors of that position. He offers the exact skill set I want from a modern lock, minus of course his bad hands.

If Manu cant hack it fitness wise there then id drop him to reserve grade until he is ready to offer squad the point of difference we need. His time for the wing is long gone, for what he has to offer we are seriously miss-using his talent.

Im not convinced our forwards are all that the crack hot.

RFM has real potential, Sipley for me is a major keeper. But Matulino is riding out his career a bit. Lillyman a beast in the gym and a cat on the park. Mannering workhorse, hoffman workhosre, henry workhorse, Thompson - genuine value, Lisone - athletic, Vete - Solid but where are my beasts and bullies? Missing except Sipley and Gavet. Thats where Manu could be dynamite, and thats where he increases his value.

When you look to a pack that could dominate then this could be it

8. Matulino
9. Luke - 80 mins
10. Vete
11. Mannering
12. Hoffman
13. Vatuvei

14. Thompson
15. Gavet
16. Lillyman/Lisone/Henry
17. Sipley/RFM

Vatuvei has a massive impact on the balance of that pack - Huge in my opinon.
 
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ozbash

Referee
Messages
26,922
Its not just the backs that will define Cappys success, alot rides on the forwards.

I thought our forwards have been outstanding the last few seasons.
The weakness is in 6,5,4,3,2,1..

they leak more points than my grannys colander..
 

Rich102

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
11,762
]I thought our forwards have been outstanding the last few seasons.[/B]
The weakness is in 6,5,4,3,2,1..

they leak more points than my grannys colander..

The problem, or at least part of it, is that the forwards haven't been allowed to do their job properly.
We haven't allowed them to get on top. We move the ball out wide too early.
Give them a chance to show what they can do - tire the opposition forwards and then give our backs a chance.

Also Lolohea is not a center.
 

BrotherJim05

Bench
Messages
3,458
I will lol so hard if Vatuvai plays in the forwards. You have one of the best packs in the comp, why take a solid winger and make your pack weaker.

I'd give my left nut to have a backrow of Hoffman, Thomson and Mannerism playing for Tigers
 

Iron Lion

Juniors
Messages
1,216
I will lol so hard if Vatuvai plays in the forwards. You have one of the best packs in the comp, why take a solid winger and make your pack weaker.

I'd give my left nut to have a backrow of Hoffman, Thomson and Mannerism playing for Tigers

Of course you would, you support the Tigers.

But the warriors pack has not had the right balance against the top 8 sides in recent years. Hoffman, Thomson and Mannering is to much the same and easy to plan to for opposition coaches. Warriors pack is not a monster pack, not particularly skill-fill and very tradesmen like.

My understanding was the 46 - 10 preseason loss to the dragons was highlighted by this. Smashed and bashed down the middle.
 

JJ

Immortal
Messages
32,710
Of course you would, you support the Tigers.

But the warriors pack has not had the right balance against the top 8 sides in recent years. Hoffman, Thomson and Mannering is to much the same and easy to plan to for opposition coaches. Warriors pack is not a monster pack, not particularly skill-fill and very tradesmen like.

My understanding was the 46 - 10 preseason loss to the dragons was highlighted by this. Smashed and bashed down the middle.

Not sure I agree on the balance issue, but I agree that the pack is not huge, not hugely skilful and very workmanlike

But, how the f**k would Manu change that - he's not at all skilful with the ball, would lower the workrate - at best he's a 10-15 min impact man from the bench imo
 

Auckland4ever

Juniors
Messages
1,243
Manu to the forwards - a new season must be about to start.

Those who want him to shift, can you name me two backs in the Warriors squad that fit this bill:
they have scored tries prolifically (i.e. double figures min over a season), they aren't likely to be dominated in the air, they have a low error rate, they have an excellent workrate and are great at getting our sets started with good go-forward, they have proven themselves to be consistent defenders and good communicators in the backline. If there are two players fitting that bill in our squad, then by all means, put them on the wings and move Manu elsewhere.

The reality is that none of the other options are close to being that kind of standard. We at least get two players in one with Vatuvei, despite his shortcomings. He's a prolific tryscorer on the wing and an effective prop at the same time. With the limited interchange this becomes even more valuable. We have an extra forward. Why limit that?
 
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jaseg

Juniors
Messages
2,274
Manu to the forwards - a new season must be about to start.

Those who want him to shift, can you name me two backs in the Warriors squad that fit this bill:
they have scored tries prolifically (i.e. double figures min over a season), they aren't likely to be dominated in the air, they have a low error rate, they have an excellent workrate and are great at getting our sets started with good go-forward, they have proven themselves to be consistent defenders and good communicators in the backline. If there are two players fitting that bill in our squad, then by all means, put them on the wings and move Manu elsewhere.

The reality is that none of the other options are close to being that kind of standard. We at least get two players in one with Vatuvei, despite his shortcomings. He's a prolific tryscorer on the wing and an effective prop at the same time. With the limited interchange this becomes even more valuable. We have an extra forward. Why limit that?

To be fair mate, Manu doesn't fit that bill.

He's still the best winger we have though (with both Lolohea and Fusitua as potential candidates to develop and push for the other wing spot). He's not going to add anything to the squad as a backrower, we have a great back row. And he already does the go-forward grunt work he would do at prop, without having to tackle as much - seriously... who has confidence in Manu to make 20+ tackles a game and not miss a bunch of them? It's easier to tackle in the middle of the field, but he's just not great at finishing tackles/wrapping players up.

He's a winger (a really good one). Not a forward. That isn't going to change.
 

Auckland4ever

Juniors
Messages
1,243
To be fair mate, Manu doesn't fit that bill..

I never said he did. My point is, he's our best winger (and an extra forward). For him to be replaced, there needs to be two clearly better options. There aren't.
 
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Penrose Warrior

First Grade
Messages
9,466
The ol' Manu to the forwards silly buggers. He's our best winger, we have back rowers coming out of our earholes. Do the math.

6 days to go. Exciting times.
 

KeepingTheFaith

Referee
Messages
25,235
The ol' Manu to the forwards silly buggers. He's our best winger, we have back rowers coming out of our earholes. Do the math.

6 days to go. Exciting times.

I would debate this.

Mannering - almost 30
Hoffman - over 30
Thompson

Daylight

Benry - always injured

RFM - Meh

???

We've got more props than we know what to do with. If we go with the 3 props (3rd playing at lock) set up then backrow is all good. However, as it currently looks, backrow is hardly a strength beyond our first choice.

Having said all that - Manu is not the answer to replenishing our backrow either. Agree on that one.
 

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