Recent Big Name Player Movement

[The Godfather]

Nothing will even come close to 1996 when we hit the jackpot from the ARL / Super League Battle

Dean Pay, Jarrod McCracken, Jim Dymock, Jason Smith, Gary Freeman :evil: , Aaron Raper, Aaron Ritson, Nathan Barnes etc etc etc

 

[strider]

My point is not that elite players don't change clubs....elite players would certainly change clubs...."elite" is a pretty strong word tho - I think very few identified here would be classed "elite".....several are very good - I think most named here are relevant to what I was talking about.

My point is a couple of things:

1. Parra has been hammered by criticism of player retention/recruitment. But I don't think we have done that bad a job of it. Since 2001 we have only really lost 3 solid players to clubs that are doing well - Ryan, Cayless and Tonga - they are solid contributing players but not necessarily ones that make their teams what they are.

We have lost tonnes of guys, many of who were only ever brought to our club for depth (Hex, Dunley, etc), to clubs who really aren't more successful us - Manly, Wests, Canberra, Warriors.

Considering there aren't that many big names availabel every year, I think we have recruited OK....Dykes, Morris, Cannings, Riddell is a solid group to be adding to our core players.

2. There are very few BIG NAME players to be had each season - and many of them move purely for money - which is something we haven't been flush with of late (our depth players don't cost us alot - so don't give me the why did we get Wise instead of Tonga crap).

Many of the players people have mentioned here are either: a) getting old; b) coming off some sort of injury period; c) were unproven when signed.

If we had been looking at buying Nick Graham people on here would have whinged like all hell.


There is only so many players who are really options for us....The Civoneciva's and Cross's, Tate's, etc etc are talked about every year - but generally they never go anywhere.

 

[CrazyEel]

Your being a little selective in your representation there. If you add Ian Hindmarsh, Marsh and Solomona, and regardless of the resons, Lyon, to your list of Ryan, Tonga and Cayless then it makes a significant difference.

If Dykes, Cannings and Riddel were added to those then we would indeed have a great team and there would be no argument. However the gains simply mitigate the lossess and the net effect is we have gone backwards. No amount of spin is going to change that fact, results speak for themselves. Dykes has not justified his $400K year and we are yet to see what Cannings and Riddell will add.

As for players becoming available there are probably more but those I can recall, including those we lost, of class or origin over last 3 years include;

Ryan
J Cayless
Hodgson
Tonga
Marsh
Ian Hindmarsh
Kimmorley (twice)
Orford (3 years ago)
Finch
Vagana
Lautiti
Campbell
Kennedy
O'Meley
Kite
Walker
Priddis
Sattler
Roberts
Firman
Hodges
Prince
Norton
Fletcher
McDougall

That's still a pretty strong list over 3 years.

 

[scottyeel]

I see your point strider but if we are only buying these players every year for depth then why not just keep the ones we release, they are just as good as the ones we bring in.

 

[CrazyEel]

I see your point strider but if we are only buying these players every year for depth then why not just keep the ones we release, they are just as good as the ones we bring in.

Yes, very good point.

 

[Belly in Brisvegas]

I see your point strider but if we are only buying these players every year for depth then why not just keep the ones we release, they are just as good as the ones we bring in.

I agree scotty....and then you might get some blokes that form a brotherhood for each other that would run through a brick wall if they were asked to rather than to rock up, get to play for the club for a year and then get punted again.

While we turn players over all the time that doesn't breed a kind of closeness and a sense of purpose for mine.

 

[strider]

Yeah true - I think we lack cohesion - if we could keep guys together for a while we may solve that problem to some extent.

But we seem to get good efforts from the new guys we buy each year....if we had just "stuck with everyone from last year", guys like McKinnon, Stapleton, Hopkins, Hex, Dunley would never have even been at Parra - these kind of guys put in just about every game.

 

[strider]

Your being a little selective in your representation there. If you add Ian Hindmarsh, Marsh and Solomona, and regardless of the resons, Lyon, to your list of Ryan, Tonga and Cayless then it makes a significant difference.

My satement about Ryan, Catless and Tonga was they are hte only ones we've lost that have gone to teams doing better than ourselves....Wests and Canberra aren't really travelling any better than we are....and Manly :roll: .....So my point is - if we are losing such great amounts of talent, why are the teams stacked with Parra's losses travelling so poorly???

 

[Belly in Brisvegas]

I want our players to eat, breath, live, shit, die Parramatta....can't be too much too ask can it??

 

[CrazyEel]

My satement about Ryan, Catless and Tonga was they are hte only ones we've lost that have gone to teams doing better than ourselves....Wests and Canberra aren't really travelling any better than we are....and Manly :roll: .....So my point is - if we are losing such great amounts of talent, why are the teams stacked with Parra's losses travelling so poorly???

That's because in your examples you are only referring to the teams that picked up groups of one season duds we shouldn't have bought in the first place. The good players we lost are scattered over a number of teams.

According to your logic if the Roosters team was scattered amongst all other clubs and if those players didn't make a huge impact on their new club then that is proof that they were no loss to the roosters in the first place. I just wonder how the Roosters would perform the next year without them.

It's not the effect they have on their new team thats at issue here, it's the effect their loss had on their old team. And we have lost more than we've gained. If the Eels results over the last 3 years supported your argument then I would agree with you, but they don't so I'm not.

 

[CrazyEel]

Yeah true - I think we lack cohesion - if we could keep guys together for a while we may solve that problem to some extent.

But we seem to get good efforts from the new guys we buy each year....if we had just "stuck with everyone from last year", guys like McKinnon, Stapleton, Hopkins, Hex, Dunley would never have even been at Parra - these kind of guys put in just about every game.

Isn't that a contradiction to your opening post? What you appear to be asking for now is a better retention and more selective recruitment programme.

 

[strider]

Yeah true - I think we lack cohesion - if we could keep guys together for a while we may solve that problem to some extent.

But we seem to get good efforts from the new guys we buy each year....if we had just "stuck with everyone from last year", guys like McKinnon, Stapleton, Hopkins, Hex, Dunley would never have even been at Parra - these kind of guys put in just about every game.

Isn't that a contradiction to your opening post? What you appear to be asking for now is a better retention and more selective recruitment programme.

Someone makes a good point - am I not allowed to acknowledge that?

 

[CrazyEel]

Whatever makes you happy.

 

[eeelectroshooting?]

I just can't see the point in quantity buying of large numbers every year just to release them at years end, all because they were cheap. What purpose does that serve and how could it possibly benefit the building of team spirit.

bingo!


esp the team spirit bit.

 

[Misty Bee]

You don't need to buy plyers if your junior development is working OK. I don't think ours is, compared to a mob like Newcastle or Brisbane. Look at the mess that is our halfback situation, compared to St George's premier league's contribution in the last 12 months.

There are big names that we miss out on.

 

[The Colonel]

Newcastle is a bit thin on the ground at the moment - go outside their first grade side and the lower grades are really struggling - PL has won 3 and JF has won 4 (to last week at least). There biggest problem is not their juniors but the lack of "journeymen" to let some kids develop to their potential. How many of their juniors are now back playing in the local Newcastle Comp because they were brought on too early into grades they shouldn't have been in?

Our club seems to develop back rowers, front rowers, hookers and outside backs (1-5) like nothing else. When it comes to halves - we develop kids who are genius in the lower grades that don't necessarily cut the mustard in the top grade or we let go the one who does - really the only half that has gone on to anything from Parramatta is PJ Marsh. Casey McGuire has emerged but now more of a utility though he is playing well at half.

Casey, Frare, Jolly, Herring, Moran, Lawler, Bell, Seal........ the list goes on and on. I'm sure others can name plenty.

 

[fish eel]

really the only half that has gone on to anything from Parramatta is PJ Marsh.

and thats as a hooker.

I really like the look of Casey in the number 7 though. Seems to have toughned up a bit this year.

 

[Belly in Brisvegas]

Newcastle is a bit thin on the ground at the moment - go outside their first grade side and the lower grades are really struggling - PL has won 3 and JF has won 4 (to last week at least). There biggest problem is not their juniors but the lack of "journeymen" to let some kids develop to their potential. How many of their juniors are now back playing in the local Newcastle Comp because they were brought on too early into grades they shouldn't have been in?

Our club seems to develop back rowers, front rowers, hookers and outside backs (1-5) like nothing else. When it comes to halves - we develop kids who are genius in the lower grades that don't necessarily cut the mustard in the top grade or we let go the one who does - really the only half that has gone on to anything from Parramatta is PJ Marsh. Casey McGuire has emerged but now more of a utility though he is playing well at half.

Casey, Frare, Jolly, Herring, Moran, Lawler, Bell, Seal........ the list goes on and on. I'm sure others can name plenty.

Maybe Sterlo is a curse.....has there been too much expectation since Sterlo retired for these kids to step up to the mark??

 

[The Colonel]

Maybe Sterlo is a curse.....has there been too much expectation since Sterlo retired for these kids to step up to the mark??

I think expectation is the main thing. Since 1986 and moreso since 1992 we have expected to rely on our juniors.

Realistically since 1986 how many big name players have we honestly bought who haven't been nearing the end of their careers?

Take out the players we picked up in 1996 and there isn't a hell of a lot of players.

Bob Lindner, Adam Dykes, John Simon and to an extent Paul Dunn have been the biggest purchases by the club IMO outside of Pay and company.

 

[strider]

I think its reasonable to expect to build a strong team around a core group of [Hindy, Caylo, Lyon, Dykes, Vella, Morris]...then add to that guys like [Vaealiki, Grothe, Cannings] and you have a very solid nucleus.

I don't think we should have "needed" to add anything BIG in the last few seasons and I don't believe there are that many top class players going around that we could have bought who would have changed anything....but for whatever reason, alot of the core group has missed games, been playing poorly, felt the need to pull beers....thus we have under performed.

I think if we could somehow get a quality outside back to replace Lyon then that is all we really need for next season....keep Stapo, he's a hard worker - keep Jack coming along...they will be enough for the forwards provided others can play more games....a great half would be handy, but Dykes is good, provided the rest of the team performs their jobs around him.