RL independence day arrives - NRL Independent Commission announced for November 1

[The Observer]

Wel, well, well what do we have here?

It didn't take long for the clubs self-interest to rear it's ugly head didn't it?

There is talk of shifting the All Stars game to the week of the Grand Final. Of course the hidden agenda is to avoid injuries to players prior to season start.

The clubs aren't opposed to the concept, but they do make a fair point that a pre-season All Stars game could affect preparations for Round 1. The same was true with a pre-season World Sevens

Hold the game on NAIDOC Day, the first Sunday in July. NAIDOC Week could be an even better initiative to celebrate because it a positive, comprehensive celebration of indigenous culture, spearheaded by indigenous people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NAIDOC

Hold a complete bye for the NRL that weekend, and you could stage another All Golds-Aotearoa Maori game as a celebration of Matariki , and a World Sevens that weekend.

East Coast Tiger, I was concerned about grassroots development, representative and particularly international football being undermined by an independent commission, but the QRL and Ross Livermore is going to alienate any remaining support with comments like this:

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/...-as-preston-dreams-of-test-20100216-o90j.html

 

[m0nty]

East Coast Tiger, I was concerned about grassroots development, representative and particularly international football being undermined by an independent commission, but the QRL and Ross Livermore is going to alienate any remaining support with comments like this:

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/...-as-preston-dreams-of-test-20100216-o90j.html

 

[fourplay]

Wow.. the QRL are a bunch of dinosaurs.

How can they be against a game that generates so much positive attention for rugby league and the community in general? Not only that but it's an astounding financial success.

 

[Jankuloski]

They better find a way to make this concept profitable or in some other way beneficial to all the clubs or it won't last.

Hmmm.. I wonder how are they going to do thaaaat?

Despite the overwhelming success of the event, which raised $2 million for NRL-backed community projects and attracted more than 1.3 million television viewers, QRL boss Ross Livermore said players should aspire to represent their state or country.

Nope ...

Getting your (I must say very metro) PM supporting a RL event?

Nahh...It's all a waste of time.

 

[East Coast Tiger]

If you think the QRL reckons having an indigenous team trotting the globe playing "Test" matches (not that they would be) is a bad idea imagine what the clubs would think if this. You can claim a big financial windfall but if the clubs don't see any of the cash they won't give a toss how much it makes. The only club profiting from this at present is the Gold Coast, which is why Searle is saying "leave it on the Gold Coast for a few more years".

People also seem to forget that the govenment backs the Prime Minister's XIII trip to PNG but there's no hype around that, despite being more than a symbolic event, so no one seems to care about it. And Rudd would show up anywhere if he thought it would make him look good. The biggest threat to this indienous game going ahead every year at the right time is still the clubs. Considering the success of the game you have to wonder about their motives when they are already trying to get it moved to a different time that suits them better.

 

[skeepe]

The NSWRL, those great custodians of the grassroots of the game, are trying to outdo the QRL at ineptness it seems.

They have instructed the Raiders to sever ties with Souths Logan, or risk being banned from entering NSWRL competitions (eg, Harold Matthews and so on).

Basically, they have given this choice to the Raiders: withdraw backing for Souths Logan, which would kill that club, or not have a place for local juniors to play representative football.

Really looking after the grassroots with that one.

Raiders use trial to ensure future of feeder club Souths Logan




Monday, 15 February 2010

The Canberra Raiders strong ties to the Queensland area will be displayed in full on Saturday night against the Brisbane Broncos, as they use their trial match against Brisbane to highlight the importance of their relationship with their feeder club the Souths Logan Magpies.

Not only will the official NRL trial be played at Queensland’s historic home of Rugby Union, Ballymore Oval, the game will also be used to help raise revenue for the Magpies ahead of the 2010 season.


The Raiders have had a special relationship with the Brisbane based Souths Logan club from the days of Mal Meninga and Gary Belcher, right through to the current crop of stars such as Daniel Vidot and Travis Waddell.

However the future of this relationship has been put under pressure over the past few months as the NSWRL looks to force the Raiders back into the domestic NSW competition, in a move which would signal the end of this proud relationship.

Without the financial and physical support of the Raiders, the Magpies could face the possibility of folding their commitments in the Queensland Cup and could lose a junior base of players which currently stands at around 3,500.

Saturday’s trial against the Broncos at historic Ballymore Oval gives the Raiders and Magpies a chance to show rugby league powerbrokers how much the relationship means to both parties.

Raiders CEO Don Furner said the trial is more than just a preparation for the upcoming season it’s also a way to showcase how important the relationship is between the Raiders and Magpies.

“One of the main things about the trial this weekend is our relationship with Souths Logan.” Furner said. “The reason we play the Broncos in Brisbane for pre-season trial games is because it assists Souths Logan financially as they get to keep the revenue from the match.

“Financially this match is a big shot in the arm for them and if we were forced to end our relationship, matches like this would not occur and we would have to take them somewhere else.”

Furner said the Raiders and Magpies have forged a strong bond over the years and said it would be detrimental to the Brisbane based Souths Logan club if their relationship came to an end.

“The Raiders are well supported in Queensland, in particular the Souths Logan region and we want to continue our relationship into the future,” he said. “This will see more games like the one at Ballymore on Saturday and will help the survival of a club that is over 100 years old.

“The situation at the moment is a win/win for both us and Souths Logan as we get to help them out financially by having trials in Brisbane and contributing to their development programs, while at the same time we are giving their players a pathway into the NRL.

“It would be a sad day if we were forced to discontinue our relationship in 2011.”

Souths Logan CEO Jim McClelland echoed Furner’s comments on how important it was for their club to remain affiliated with the Raiders and said their future is on the line if the Raiders are forced to break their ties to the club.

“I’ve spoken to the QRL as late as last week and highlighted to them the impact that our relationship with the Raiders has on our future in the Queensland Cup as a top tier team,” McClelland said. “Its quite simple for us in the fact that if there are no Raiders involved with our club we would not be able to continue to participate in the Q-Cup.”

McClelland said the fallout of a split between the two clubs would be catastrophic to grass roots rugby league in the region and would kill off the chance of some rising stars to progress to the games elite level.

“There are 3,500 junior kids who we look after with the help of Raiders development and this would also be put at risk if we were forced to split our ties with Canberra,” he said. “We’re committed to producing high quality players from our region which can make there way through to the NRL through the Raiders and we would be devastated if this was to come to an end.”

McClelland said his club was committed to ensuring the future of their ties to the Raiders and said it was more than just winning matches.

“We see ourselves as a part of the Raiders family and we’re all working together to reach and achieve the same values and goals,” he said. “Quite simply without the Raiders we would not be able to compete and the pathway for our players to the NRL would drop off significantly.”

http://www.raiders.com.au/default.a...-to-ensure-future-of-feeder-club-souths-logan

But we need them to ensure the future of grassroots football, right?

 

[East Coast Tiger]

Whatever. Qld Cup clubs are constantly being screwed around by NRL clubs with many agreeing to feeder arrangements and then pulling out or not fulfilling the deal. If the Raiders were forced to return to the competition they are supposed to be playing in they would have to give more locals a chance in the NSWRL competitions, instead of taking the cheap option of sending a handful of players to Brisbane. Make no mistake, this in all about cash for the Raiders and nothing to do with a philanthropic effort to support grassroots rugby league in Queensland. The NRL influence on the Qld Cup has destroyed the nature of that competition, turning it from a vibrant independent competition into a pseudo reserve grade comp with half the teams wearing NRL badges and wearing NRL colours with few links to their local communities. Meanwhile the NSWRL competitions where these clubs are supposed to play are also suffering because NRL clubs are neglecting them in favour of the cheaper option. It's all about cost cutting and it's a mess. These are the clubs who we are going to give power to under their commission and all they've shown is an interest in looking after themselves and their bottom line. Any beneifts to other parts of the game is coincidental.

PS: I'm continued to be amazed at how many people try to make an argument in support of an NRL club-centric commission by showing how NRL club centric they are and only posting things relating to THEIR club and nothing else.

 

[griff]

The NSWRL, those great custodians of the grassroots of the game, are trying to outdo the QRL at ineptness it seems.

They have instructed the Raiders to sever ties with Souths Logan, or risk being banned from entering NSWRL competitions (eg, Harold Matthews and so on).

Basically, they have given this choice to the Raiders: withdraw backing for Souths Logan, which would kill that club, or not have a place for local juniors to play representative football.

Really looking after the grassroots with that one.



But we need them to ensure the future of grassroots football, right?

As you know, open age RL in NSW is in major trouble because of NRL clubs moving their feeder operations to the Qld Cup.

This makes sense for the NRL club, who have their fringe players playing in a higher quality competition. It makes sense for the Qld club, who get access to quality players at no cost.

However, it is woefully inefficient (travel costs, accommodation costs, etc), and is bad for player welfare (especially if they have a family).

The more NSW clubs have feeder relationships with Qld clubs instead of NSW clubs, the worse quality NSW comps get, the more NSW clubs will see the need to set up a Qld feeder club. This also impacts negatively on junior development in NSW. So shouldn't be hard to see why the NSWRL are doing this.

Ideally, clubs would have local feeder clubs playing in local comps, meaning the clubs wouldn't have to pay for flying fringe players halfway round the country every second week. It's not surprising a lot of players give up playing completely if they can't break into the NRL, given the crap they have to put up with as a fringe player.

Also, if the QRL got a decent amount of money from the NRL, they could distribute the cash to Souths Logan directly and they wouldn't need the relationship with the Raiders.

 

[skeepe]

Whatever. Qld Cup clubs are constantly being screwed around by NRL clubs with many agreeing to feeder arrangements and then pulling out or not fulfilling the deal. If the Raiders were forced to return to the competition they are supposed to be playing in they would have to give more locals a chance in the NSWRL competitions, instead of taking the cheap option of sending a handful of players to Brisbane. Make no mistake, this in all about cash for the Raiders and nothing to do with a philanthropic effort to support grassroots rugby league in Queensland. The NRL influence on the Qld Cup has destroyed the nature of that competition, turning it from a vibrant independent competition into a pseudo reserve grade comp with half the teams wearing NRL badges and wearing NRL colours with few links to their local communities. Meanwhile the NSWRL competitions where these clubs are supposed to play are also suffering because NRL clubs are neglecting them in favour of the cheaper option. It's all about cost cutting and it's a mess. These are the clubs who we are going to give power to under their commission and all they've shown is an interest in looking after themselves and their bottom line. Any beneifts to other parts of the game is coincidental.

PS: I'm continued to be amazed at how many people try to make an argument in support of an NRL club-centric commission by showing how NRL club centric they are and only posting things relating to THEIR club and nothing else.

So you actually support a move which would ensure the death of a grassroots club? Is that what I am supposed to conclude from your dismissive tone?

You say that the Queensland Cup is a mess, but those clubs underwritten by NRL clubs would not exist if it weren't for the help they receive. Would you prefer the alternative of having a much smaller competition?

I'm actually amazed at your argument here, you claim that you only want what's best for the grassroots, while at the same time denouncing any moves the NRL clubs make to look after them and even advancing moves which will have a severely detrimental affect of grassroots rugby league.

 

[skeepe]

As you know, open age RL in NSW is in major trouble because of NRL clubs moving their feeder operations to the Qld Cup.

This makes sense for the NRL club, who have their fringe players playing in a higher quality competition. It makes sense for the Qld club, who get access to quality players at no cost.

However, it is woefully inefficient (travel costs, accommodation costs, etc), and is bad for player welfare (especially if they have a family).

The more NSW clubs have feeder relationships with Qld clubs instead of NSW clubs, the worse quality NSW comps get, the more NSW clubs will see the need to set up a Qld feeder club. This also impacts negatively on junior development in NSW. So shouldn't be hard to see why the NSWRL are doing this.

Ideally, clubs would have local feeder clubs playing in local comps, meaning the clubs wouldn't have to pay for flying fringe players halfway round the country every second week. It's not surprising a lot of players give up playing completely if they can't break into the NRL, given the crap they have to put up with as a fringe player.

Also, if the QRL got a decent amount of money from the NRL, they could distribute the cash to Souths Logan directly and they wouldn't need the relationship with the Raiders.

I understand your point of view, but it's not that simple.

The Raiders cannot afford to run a team in the NSW Cup. They have stated this many times. They have also stated that without the Souths Logan link, they would send their players to the Canberra Raiders Cup, which, and no disrespect to the players there, is nowhere near the same level. So this move doesn't help the NSW competitions anyway.

Even if they were to move toward the NSW Cup, they would have to find a team to link with, and as Don Furner stated on ABC Radio yesterday, they're all tied up with NRL clubs already.

Also, the Raiders have maintained this link with Souths Logan since 1982. I can certainly understand the reluctance to leave.

 

[Jatz Crackers]

I'm actually amazed at your argument here, you claim that you only want what's best for the grassroots, while at the same time denouncing any moves the NRL clubs make to look after them and even advancing moves which will have a severely detrimental affect of grassroots rugby league.

NRL clubs rooted his missus.

 

[East Coast Tiger]

So you actually support a move which would ensure the death of a grassroots club? Is that what I am supposed to conclude from your dismissive tone?

You say that the Queensland Cup is a mess, but those clubs underwritten by NRL clubs would not exist if it weren't for the help they receive. Would you prefer the alternative of having a much smaller competition?

I'm actually amazed at your argument here, you claim that you only want what's best for the grassroots, while at the same time denouncing any moves the NRL clubs make to look after them and even advancing moves which will have a severely detrimental affect of grassroots rugby league.

You don't anything about the Qld Cup so get off your high horse. You wouldn't know what a garssroots club was. The club will NOT die. At worst it just won't be in the Qld Cup which is not such a big loss, although I suspect they'll still be there, just as they were before the Raiders deal. The Qld Cup is not a mess, the ridiculous, convoluted NRL reserve grade structure is a mess. All the clubs in Qld Cup have an affiliation to an NRL club but they all survive without being a surrogate for a NSWRL team.

It's scaremongering from Souths. They never needed Canberra's money before, not that they'd be getting much of it anyway. Plus their juniors are not going to just disappear if Canberra goes, nor will they lose their pathway to the NRL - there is no existing special pathway anyway because pretty much all the Raiders signed players are from NSW and other parts of Qld not from the Souths Logan area. What Souths really want is the Canberra players because without them they are going to struggle in the Qld Cup, like they used to. They will be back on a more level pegging with the other clubs. Maybe they should link with the Titans or Broncos like the other clubs have done. The QRL funds the Qld Cup at a loss every year because it believes it is worth it. If the NRL clubs really wanted to help the game they'd make up that shortfall but they don't. They just want a cheap, easy way to get rid of their reserve grade side. That's why they brought in the under 20s. They thought they could merge the Jersey Flegg with the NSW Cup and not have to worry about over age senior players outside their NRL squads and they'd send a heap of players to the scrap-heap and save a bunch of money. Now they've realised it doesn't work and they are having to find more cheap ways around it. Canberra's deal at Souths serves this purpose. They are just looking after themselves, as usual.

 

[skeepe]

If you think the QRL reckons having an indigenous team trotting the globe playing "Test" matches (not that they would be) is a bad idea imagine what the clubs would think if this. You can claim a big financial windfall but if the clubs don't see any of the cash they won't give a toss how much it makes. The only club profiting from this at present is the Gold Coast, which is why Searle is saying "leave it on the Gold Coast for a few more years".

People also seem to forget that the govenment backs the Prime Minister's XIII trip to PNG but there's no hype around that, despite being more than a symbolic event, so no one seems to care about it. And Rudd would show up anywhere if he thought it would make him look good. The biggest threat to this indienous game going ahead every year at the right time is still the clubs. Considering the success of the game you have to wonder about their motives when they are already trying to get it moved to a different time that suits them better.

:crazy:

First, you misread the article. The QRL thinks having an indigenous team is a bad idea full stop. They mentioned nothing about tests. Yes, the article does, but it says

Queensland officials have questioned the purpose of an indigenous team as Preston Campbell, the driving force behind last Saturday's night's All Stars match, revealed plans for the concept to go international.

They questioned the idea of the concept of an indigenous team, and at the same time Preston Campbell revealed plans to go international.

In other words, they questioned the team as it applied to the all stars match, and not the idea of a "test" team as you put it.

I also think you'll find that there are plenty who care about the PMs XIII.

You seem to have a deep-seated fear of NRL clubs, and I think that this is clouding your judgement on this issue. Your arguments are no longer rational, and anything that anyone posts that paints a negative light on the "saviours of the game" (NSWRL and QRL) you automatically spin back and say "but... but... the clubs are evil!" with absolutely no basis for your arguments.

How sad.

 

[East Coast Tiger]

How about this

The clubs (8 of them that still exist) gave life to Super League and threw the game into an almost terminal turmoil.

The clubs killed the World Sevens, one of our most important international development events.

The clubs force players into surgery that forces them out of internationals, especially New Zealand players.

The clubs ensured the international season was shortened and developmental exhibition matches were scrapped after the 2004 tour included a game in America.

The clubs have pushed for Origin games to be moved to weekends so they don't have players missing from club games.

The clubs have moved more and more pre-season games away from country areas that need them and into metro areas to make more money since the NRL gave them power to control where and when pre-season games were played.

The clubs ensured the Community Carnival games proposed for country areas were scrapped.

The clubs poach players from country clubs and fail to pay the compensation owed to those clubs under their own agreement with the NRL and the CRL.

Now they're alredy talking about moving the indigenous game to suit their own ends.

How's that for a start. The best indictaion of future behaviour is past and present behaviour. This all happened at a time when the game was NOT owned by the clubs. What will hapen when it is?

 

[griff]

I understand your point of view, but it's not that simple.

The Raiders cannot afford to run a team in the NSW Cup. They have stated this many times. They have also stated that without the Souths Logan link, they would send their players to the Canberra Raiders Cup, which, and no disrespect to the players there, is nowhere near the same level. So this move doesn't help the NSW competitions anyway.

Even if they were to move toward the NSW Cup, they would have to find a team to link with, and as Don Furner stated on ABC Radio yesterday, they're all tied up with NRL clubs already.

Also, the Raiders have maintained this link with Souths Logan since 1982. I can certainly understand the reluctance to leave.

Clearly, the Souths Logan link is a cheaper and lower risk option for the Raiders than starting up a NSW cup side. The cost of sending players back and forth must be pretty substantial, and if they had a proper local feeder club this wouldn't be the case. Maybe the Raiders have done their sums and worked out they couldn't afford it, maybe they haven't, I don't know. But I think having a feeder side in the open age comp in your home state is so important it should actually be a requirement of an NRL licence.

It is in the interests of the game over all to have strong, credible state league competitions in both NSW and Qld rather than a de facto reserve grade in Qld and a park comp in NSW. The move the NSWRL is making go towards that end. Now there are some transitional issues here that need work, like the Souths Logan link, but it is unquestionably the direction the game needs to go in. We need more money going to prop up these state competitions so Souths Logan can stand on their own two feet, and so the Raiders can afford to run a local feeder club. If the clubs control the Commission, the QRL and NSWRL won't have as much money to run these vital competitions.

 

[East Coast Tiger]

The thing is NRL clubs had affiliations with Qld Cup clubs well before they started using them as their reserve grade side to save money. There is no reason the NRL clubs can't continue to link with Qld Cup clubs in some capacity even with a NSW Cup team in place. The only thing stopping them is their own will.

 

[m0nty]

Don't be fooled that the NSWRL's position is held for reasons of efficiency and good administration. No, they're ticked off that the likes of the Raiders and Storm support Queensland grassroots footy, which strengthens the Queensland origin side and Queensland footy in general. Their agenda is to white-ant Queensland grassroots footy and pump up the NSW grassroots.

These decisions are being made on a zero-sum-gain basis, where it's all about poaching the other side's assets - or poisoning their well, to make your lot look good in comparison. There is no oversight by the ARL to make decisions for the common good of the game. Undermining Souths Logan is in nobody's interest except the NSWRL. It's certainly not in the interests of grassroots players.

 

[Bluebags1908]

The NSWRL, those great custodians of the grassroots of the game, are trying to outdo the QRL at ineptness it seems.

They have instructed the Raiders to sever ties with Souths Logan, or risk being banned from entering NSWRL competitions (eg, Harold Matthews and so on).

Basically, they have given this choice to the Raiders: withdraw backing for Souths Logan, which would kill that club, or not have a place for local juniors to play representative football.

Really looking after the grassroots with that one.



But we need them to ensure the future of grassroots football, right?

To be quite frank and blunt, I'm 100% with the NSWRL on this one. The Raiders should be fostering grass-roots in their own region by having their own feeder team in their own region.

Can you imagine the Broncos or Cowboys having Sydney-based feeder teams?

And the Storm reloacted their NSW Cup team from Central Coast to Melbourne for a reason.

The NSWRL's concern is to foster Rugby League in NSW, which is exactly what they are doing by getting the Raiders to have their feeder team in the NSW Cup.

The Raiders should have a NSW Cup team playing out of Canberra, Queanbeyan, or even Wagga. I think Wagga would be most beneficial to the game overall, as the Raiders could spead the Rugby League gospel along the NSW-Vic border and into country Victoria - this is the sort of development work we are missing out on

And even if Souths Logan are no longer the Raiders feeder team, what's stopping the Raiders playing a trial game against the Broncos in Brisbane every year to raise money for them anyway?

 

[elbusto]

To be quite frank and blunt, I'm 100% with the NSWRL on this one. The Raiders should be fostering grass-roots in their own region by having their own feeder team in their own region.

Can you imagine the Broncos or Cowboys having Sydney-based feeder teams?

And the Storm reloacted their NSW Cup team from Central Coast to Melbourne for a reason.

The NSWRL's concern is to foster Rugby League in NSW, which is exactly what they are doing by getting the Raiders to have their feeder team in the NSW Cup.

The Raiders should have a NSW Cup team playing out of Canberra, Queanbeyan, or even Wagga.

Could not agree more.

 

[Goddo]

Don't be fooled that the NSWRL's position is held for reasons of efficiency and good administration. No, they're ticked off that the likes of the Raiders and Storm support Queensland grassroots footy, which strengthens the Queensland origin side and Queensland footy in general. Their agenda is to white-ant Queensland grassroots footy and pump up the NSW grassroots.

These decisions are being made on a zero-sum-gain basis, where it's all about poaching the other side's assets - or poisoning their well, to make your lot look good in comparison. There is no oversight by the ARL to make decisions for the common good of the game. Undermining Souths Logan is in nobody's interest except the NSWRL. It's certainly not in the interests of grassroots players.

I think that is a load of crap. And if it were true, I would want the QRL and NSWRL having nothing to do with the administration of the game. That tit for tat crap between NSW and QLD is so stupid. One body to govern the game, independent of state or company factions.

On NSW clubs with QLD ties, it is a sign that NSW is saturated with clubs, and QLD isn't. Time for someone to relocate north... Manly would fit well, its relationship with the Sunshine Coast is very friendly...