Round 1 2013 Line Ups

[hitman82]

Right you dreary bunch. There are enough miserable/conspiracy theory threads on here, so how about something slightly less depressing... and yes, I realise this is a duplicate thread but it's been a while and I can't (be bothered) find(ing) the old one.

-assuming Tui is re-signed.
-assuming all players are fit for round 1.
-assuming we sign noone else of first pick quality.

1. Kevin Locke
2. Dane Nielsen
3. Konrad Hurrell
4. Jerome Ropati
5. Manu Vatuvei
6. Thomas Leuluai
7. Shaun Johnson
8. Sam Rapira
9. Nathan Friend
10. Jacob Lillyman
11. Feleti Martel (defending beside Leuluai)
12. Simon Mannering (defending beside Johnson)
13. Todd Lowrie

14. Carlos Tuimavavae
15. Russell Packer
16. Ben Matulino
17. Sione/Sam Lousi (whichever one is offloading better in trials)

-Unsure of Tui's role but we need him in the team.
-Defensively a lot better than 2012.
-Still lacking pace in the outside backs.
-Sione/Sam Lousi our attacking second row benchie for Martel.
-Taylor and Benry left out due to being too similar to Mannering and Lowrie, and lacking size and punch in attack.

 

[Fast Eddie]

Well that is one way to make Nielsen a waste of money I suppose.

 

[LeagueNut]

I guess a lot of it depends on whether Elliott will take a safe approach or whether he shakes things up. Hitman's lineup is good but it does have a bit of the "same old" feel about it.

This is the lineup I chose for 2013 in my season review (which isn't that much different TBH):

1. Kevin Locke
2. Glen Fisiiahi
3. Dane Neilsen
4. Konrad Hurrell
5. Manu Vatuvei
6. Thomas Leuluai
7. Shaun Johnson
8. Ben Matulino
9. Nathan Friend
10. Sam Rapira
11. Feleti Mateo
12. Simon Mannering
13. Todd Lowrie

14. Pita Godinet
15. Russell Packer
16. Jacob Lillyman
17. Elijah Taylor

I can't find a spot for Ropati - I'm not joining the Haters Society but I just don't think he's the best option.

Taylor and Henry are playing for one spot IMO, can't justify having both of them there. Taylor gets the nod from me because I think he has better long-term potential.

Tuimavave and Ikahihifo impressed me at the back end of 2012 and they'd be next cabs off the rank. I think Godinet deserves a decent stint in the team to try and cement a spot, even if it's only as a utility benchie.

The bench is short of a "gamebreaker" but between Mateo, Matulino and Vatuvei I think we're covered for big units that can offload.

We really need someone to step up and fill the "speedy winger" role too.

 

[hitman82]

Well that is one way to make Nielsen a waste of money I suppose.

:lol: what's up, smiley!

I'd rather keep Nielsen in the centres, but as he is a centre/winger and good in both positions, I figure he can play on the wing to allow Hurrell more experience in his natural position.

I'd rather Tupou earn his spot through strong Vulcans performances.

Tuimavavae and Ropati are the realistic options for the other centre spot - I want them both in the team and find it hard to decide which is better as a bench utility.

What would you do? Apart from frown...

 

[LeagueNut]

Another thought - does Mannering keep the captaincy?

There was an article last week (I think) where Elliott said he didn't see a need to change the captain, but once he gets his feet under the desk he may see things differently.

Mannering will always be a first-choice pick in the team but I don't know that he's the right captain for us - but then again there aren't a lot of other options.

 

[Fast Eddie]

:lol: what's up, smiley!

I'd rather keep Nielsen in the centres, but as he is a centre/winger and good in both positions, I figure he can play on the wing to allow Hurrell more experience in his natural position.

I'd rather Tupou earn his spot through strong Vulcans performances.

Tuimavavae and Ropati are the realistic options for the other centre spot - I want them both in the team and find it hard to decide which is better as a bench utility.

What would you do? Apart from frown...

Play Nielsen at centre. If you really wanted Ropati in the side then you would probably be even better off playing Nielsen at centre and Ropati on the wing tbh. But if anyone has to earn their position through the Vulcans it should be Jerome Ropati.

iirc you were the one championing how good a defensive player Nielsen is and how much we need some solidness in the outside backs, well a Ropati/Vatuvei combo and a Hurrell at centre and Nielsen on the wing combo is almost as far away you could get from solid while having Nielsen in the team.

Plus I think he is an average winger. Slow, small, not sure what he is like in the air? Not much of an improvement on Bill Tupou. The way I see it you may as well utilize his main skill of defense at centre.

 

[Warmess]

Another thought - does Mannering keep the captaincy?

There was an article last week (I think) where Elliott said he didn't see a need to change the captain, but once he gets his feet under the desk he may see things differently.

Mannering will always be a first-choice pick in the team but I don't know that he's the right captain for us - but then again there aren't a lot of other options.

If it's not Mannering it has to be Friend. I wouldn't be unhappy with that, playing with a broken jaw for 60 odd minutes, dude has some ticker.

1. Locke
2. Fisiiahi
3. Hurrell
4. Nielsen
5. Vatuvei
6. Leuluai
7. Johnson
8. Matulino
9. Friend
10. Packer
11. Mateo
12. Mannering
13. Lowrie

14. Tuimavave/Godinet (Would be happy with either, both are good players)
15. Rapira
16. Lillyman
17. Ikahihifo/Steve Rapira (Ikahihifo played well and deserves another chance, Steve Rapira definitely has the ability in him.)

Put Neilsen and Vats together along with Hurrell and Fish to have some attacking threat on both sides (assuming Vats finds some form again). Fish and Hurrell would have some defensive issues, but are there really better options? Kept the same prop combos together that went well in 2011, with Mutts and Package starting because they both start like beasts.

 

[hitman82]

Play Nielsen at centre. If you really wanted Ropati in the side then you would probably be even better off playing Nielsen at centre and Ropati on the wing tbh. But if anyone has to earn their position through the Vulcans it should be Jerome Ropati.

iirc you were the one championing how good a defensive player Nielsen is and how much we need some solidness in the outside backs, well a Ropati/Vatuvei combo and a Hurrell at centre and Nielsen on the wing combo is almost as far away you could get from solid while having Nielsen in the team.

Plus I think he is an average winger. Slow, small, not sure what he is like in the air? Not much of an improvement on Bill Tupou. The way I see it you may as well utilize his main skill of defense at centre.

Who would your two wingers be, from our existing line up?

Ropati is an option - sure. I honestly think if he is fit, he will be in the team in round 1. Everybody in the club seems to rate the guy, regardless of what some interwebbers believe. Perhaps everybody in the club is geniused? I don't know. but either way I am sure he'll be in the team and will roll with that.

My other option is playing Hurrell on the wing. I haven't seen him jump, but he's 6 foot tall and not slow. But do we want two brute-style wingers with minimal turning ability?

I am not a Nielsen fanboy as such, but I do think he's what we need. Experienced, smart and a good defender. I'm happy with those attributes being used anywhere in the outside backs.

With Nielsen on the wing, Hurrell will be sandwiched between him and Leuluai - a noted defender and massively experienced. I think Hurrell would be hard-pressed to unsettle that flank with these guys on either side of him.

Ropati and Vatuvei have been great together in the past. Do you think it's a fluke that Manu's best try-scoring seasons have come with Ropati feeding him? Also, in my fantasy-land team, Mannering is defending on that side, helping those two wombles sort their shit out.

 

[hitman82]

Another thought - does Mannering keep the captaincy?

There was an article last week (I think) where Elliott said he didn't see a need to change the captain, but once he gets his feet under the desk he may see things differently.

Mannering will always be a first-choice pick in the team but I don't know that he's the right captain for us - but then again there aren't a lot of other options.

Lack of options suggests yes.

Friend would be an obvious option, but he's prone to injury and will likely not be with the club beyond 2014.
Long-term succession suggests TL to hooker with Tui into the halves.

I saw another article where Mannering said he wouldn't hold grudges if he lost the captaincy - at the time I thought it was a PR move readying for a captaincy shift.

Sam Rapira is another option, but he is also injured a lot.

Beyond that, Matulino. But he doesn't seem like much of a talker.

Here's my suggestion:
Thomas Leuluai.

 

[Fast Eddie]

Who would your two wingers be, from our existing line up?

Ropati is an option - sure. I honestly think if he is fit, he will be in the team in round 1. Everybody in the club seems to rate the guy, regardless of what some interwebbers believe. Perhaps everybody in the club is geniused? I don't know. but either way I am sure he'll be in the team and will roll with that.

My other option is playing Hurrell on the wing. I haven't seen him jump, but he's 6 foot tall and not slow. But do we want two brute-style wingers with minimal turning ability?

I am not a Nielsen fanboy as such, but I do think he's what we need. Experienced, smart and a good defender. I'm happy with those attributes being used anywhere in the outside backs.

With Nielsen on the wing, Hurrell will be sandwiched between him and Leuluai - a noted defender and massively experienced. I think Hurrell would be hard-pressed to unsettle that flank with these guys on either side of him.

Ropati and Vatuvei have been great together in the past. Do you think it's a fluke that Manu's best try-scoring seasons have come with Ropati feeding him? Also, in my fantasy-land team, Mannering is defending on that side, helping those two wombles sort their shit out.

Problem being you are expecting/relying on Ropati replicating his form from 2008/2010. Chances are that will not happen. He is terrible defensively and it remains to be seen if he still has good footwork or pace after two serious leg injuries that would justify having him in the side.
A Ropati/Vatuvei combo would let through as many/more tries than they score or set up anyway.

I agree he will probably be there at centre but should it be at the expense of Hurrell? That's what will happen imo. I'd personally have him in the Vulcans for the first 3-4 games at least and then he could come in wherever he is required (fullback, centre, bench utility or even as a running 5/th) because of injury/lack of form.

 

[Fast Eddie]

Lack of options suggests yes.

Friend would be an obvious option, but he's prone to injury and will likely not be with the club beyond 2014.
Long-term succession suggests TL to hooker with Tui into the halves.

I saw another article where Mannering said he wouldn't hold grudges if he lost the captaincy - at the time I thought it was a PR move readying for a captaincy shift.

Sam Rapira is another option, but he is also injured a lot.

Beyond that, Matulino. But he doesn't seem like much of a talker.

Here's my suggestion:
Thomas Leuluai.

Plus they are guys who are only going to be on the field 40-50 minutes.

 

[Penrose Warrior]

Well that is one way to make Nielsen a waste of money I suppose.

It's fairly well irrelevant what we paid for him in terms of getting the best fit for our side. We are operating well inside the salary cap and we didn't miss out on others because we had money for him. If it's best for us to be on the wing, then so be it.

1. Locke 2. * 3. Hurrell 4. Nielsen 5. Vatuvei 6. Leuluai 7. Johnson 8. Packer 9. Friend 10. Matulino 11. Mannering 12. Mateo 13. Lowrie
Interchange: 14. Tuimavave 15. Lillyman 16. Sam Rapira 17. Taylor

I figure the asterix is going to be Tupou but I live in hope it isn't.

And I cannot understand the conjecture over Mannering. There was the furore about Price having the captaincy taken off him and the Mann led us to the GF in the same year. He can handle it, and handle it well.

 

[tangalife]

why is everyone putting Leuluai at 6 and Johnson at 7?

Ask yourself who is the better runner and who is the better game director...


Hurrell should really lose his spot unless his defence is up to speed and if we do have to play him they should just stick him on the wing. We need Neilsen in the centre not on the wing.

I would be inclined to try Ropati on the wing during the trials and see how it goes.

 

[Penrose Warrior]

Because Leuluai is a five-eighth and Johnson is a halfback, and those are the numbers on the jerseys pertaining to those positions? That's my pick.

Johnson showed glimpses last year of maturing into a player who can direct a side around the field. They will want to further that development.

If Hurrell had experience at wing I'd feel he was an option there..but he hasn't. And he'll be woeful on D there. At least he's had time at centre and a certain awareness, even if he is very green there.

 

[Fufu Andronez]

I'd put hurrell and Nielsen in the centres and have a bench of:
14. Taylor
15. Packer
16. Lousi
17. Ropati


Think best option JBro is bench utility ATM, ability to cover outside backs, and the halves (worst case scenario), and running back rower IMO. Taylor can cover if friend goes down ( again worst case scenario) and then the 2 big fullaz on the bench.

 

[ozbash]

Give me ET over Lowrie any day,week,year..

 

[tangalife]

Because Leuluai is a five-eighth and Johnson is a halfback, and those are the numbers on the jerseys pertaining to those positions? That's my pick.

Wrong TL is a halfback and Johnson played for the Juniors as a Five-Eighth.

 

[Rebel]

1 Locke
2 *New signing* (Fish on the same wing for the vulcans as backup)
3 Hurrell
4 Nielson
5 Collier (Tupou on the same wing for the vulcans as backup)
6 Leuluai
7 Johnson
8 Lillyman
9 Friend
10 Matulino
11 Mateo
12 Mannering (c)
13 Lowrie

14 Taylor
15 Vatuvei (interchange second rower)
16 Packer
17 Rapira

Elliot better be buying wingers... The thought of upou and Vatuvei there week in week out scares me.

 

[playdaball]

1 Locke
2 Fish
3 Ropati
4 Nielson
5 Big Manu
6 Leuluai
7 Johnson
8 Lillyman
9 Friend
10 Matulino
11 Mateo
12 Mannering (c)
13 Lowrie

14 Taylor
15 Hurell
16 Packer
17 Rapira

SJ as 1st choice kicker with back up from Locke.

Agree that wingers need to be on the shopping list and maybe even a goal kicker.

 

[Iafeta]

What I think will happen...

1 Locke
2 Hurrell
3 Neilsen
4 Henry
5 Vatuvei
6 Leuluai
7 Johnson
8 Packer
9 Friend
10 Matulino
11 Mannering (c)
12 Mateo
13 Lowrie

Ropati
Taylor
Sam Rapira
Lillyman

I'd like to see Fish on the wing, but I suspect if Ropati is fit he gets a spot in the 17 (perhaps moving into the backrow or hooker at times), and they won't want Henry missing out...

I don't see Neilsen on the wing. Sadly, I think he's actually a bit of a plodder, not the guy you'd want on the end of a backline move.