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Round 12 vs Souths

Dragon David

Juniors
Messages
2,342
I realize that this has already been mentioned by others , but why oh why wasn’t Sailor brought on earlier than he did ? We know the answer to this , however surely this new selection committee should also have a say when to replace tired players or those who simply are not performing ?

Yet another very bad use of the reserve bench by the coach (?) - will not use his name as I am sick to death of his lack of ability - this was a winnable match , but only if the right players are put on the field.
Sailor came on with what, 14 minutes to go? He tried his best in the short time he was on and grubbered for a try. He showed a lot of enthusiasm and unfortunately his cut pass for Johnston to intercept wasn't good. But seeing that this was his first game in months, I would certainly keep him in the squad of 17 and even have him start the game. Give Norman a rest. Possibly give Hunt a rest as well when Clune comes back and give Brittain a run.

The forwards are not doing much at all particularly over 8o minutes. They lack power and punch and just take the ball up and appear to lack offloading skills. I am not too sure about Fuimaono and Sims. Sims is not the same player and shows no mongrel now.

BTW, the penalties and 6 agains that we gave Souths helped them heaps to square up to our 16 points lead. Once that happened it was a fait accompli that they would hold the ascendency to win the game. Intercepts by Johnston didn't help.

We won't make the final 8 in my opinion so some changes should be implemented for the remaining games and see how they go.

The common thing in most posts is that we lack forward power. Get bigger and stronger middles and at least one flyer winger to help Dufty, then I honestly think that we can make finals footy. Ridding Mary is also very obvious. Do your work Millward and Board respectively.
 

denis preston

First Grade
Messages
5,559
I would not underestimate the role that Ben Hornby played as an assistant coach for the Bunnies last night. He looked mighty happy singing the team song in the sheds last night & punching the air.
I’m sure he gave plenty of inside information on Dragons defensive weaknesses and how Dufty will attack with ball in hand. He certainly would have been instrumental in spilling the beans to Wayne & JD, especially when his past responsibilities where coaching the Dragons edge players.
No surprises that Souths killed us out wide.

Well that would be ironic. He can highlight the weakness but when he was on the gravy train at our club as ass coach he couldn't fix it !
 

denis preston

First Grade
Messages
5,559
Sailor came on with what, 14 minutes to go? He tried his best in the short time he was on and grubbered for a try. He showed a lot of enthusiasm and unfortunately his cut pass for Johnston to intercept wasn't good. But seeing that this was his first game in months, I would certainly keep him in the squad of 17 and even have him start the game. Give Norman a rest. Possibly give Hunt a rest as well when Clune comes back and give Brittain a run.

The forwards are not doing much at all particularly over 8o minutes. They lack power and punch and just take the ball up and appear to lack offloading skills. I am not too sure about Fuimaono and Sims. Sims is not the same player and shows no mongrel now.



The common thing in most posts is that we lack forward power. Get bigger and stronger middles and at least one flyer winger to help Dufty, then I honestly think that we can make finals footy. Ridding Mary is also very obvious. Do your work Millward and Board respectively.

Got to say that i have given Host plenty of time and he never plays bad but he generally doesn't play up to NRL standard. His only chance for me is another coach to revive him or move to front row but at least there may be a future not like Lawrie ,Fuimaono & both Simms who i believe are all cooked.
 

denis preston

First Grade
Messages
5,559
Yes Denis, but probably every bit of advice that Hornby tried was overridden by the stubborn & arrogant Head Peanut as being seen as a threat to his power.

But that's my beef with both assistant coaches ( Young & Hornby ) Both were not going to jeopardize their pay packet by doing the honorable thing if this did occur, have a heart to heart with the CEO or resigning.
 

Old Timer

Coach
Messages
13,525
Got to say that i have given Host plenty of time and he never plays bad but he generally doesn't play up to NRL standard. His only chance for me is another coach to revive him or move to front row but at least there may be a future not like Lawrie ,Fuimaono & both Simms who i believe are all cooked.
Host is a real quandary for me too.

I have supported him for a long time and keep waiting for him to burst free of his shackles but am still waiting.

in watching some of the body language of the team there seem to be a few that are on the outer or maybe just not accepted fully by the dominant part of the playing group and for mine Host is one of those.

No set plays for him not even attempts to get him into gaps or run decent lines.

it is as if he is told to go out and tackle and keep away from the ball in attack and it has been that way ever since the game he ran into a gap and kicked ahead for his backs and was subsequently dropped after that game.

Same thing with Sailor he goes on last night and is almost shunned by Norman & Hunt (self preservation mode) and instead of getting him involved they isolate him.

How debilitating for your confidence when Sailor runs into the field in his 1st defensive set he is put on the wing with Rava inside him and then the 1st couple of attacking raids he is just standing behind the 2 misfiring playmakers.

Host & Sailor both nice & intelligent young men and not part of the “party boy” and / or “dumb arse” culture that is IMO evident in our team and I think promoted by career coach.
 
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Dragon David

Juniors
Messages
2,342
Got to say that i have given Host plenty of time and he never plays bad but he generally doesn't play up to NRL standard. His only chance for me is another coach to revive him or move to front row but at least there may be a future not like Lawrie ,Fuimaono & both Simms who i believe are all cooked.
The forwards we have are not feared one bit both in attack and defence by other teams. The ones you mentioned are well below NRL best standards and would generally be reserve grade material in other teams.

Our most concerning problem is who on earth can we get and who would want to come to this god forsaken club which has been in the doldrums for years on end.

Each year we go through all the negatives with the coach, players, board etc. Is there any chance that we will become a super club ever?. I just cannot see it.
 

Inisai Toga

Juniors
Messages
867
The problem is they don’t hunt or play like a pack!
The fear of what they ‘might’ do such as: offloading, or bending the line; followed by another strong hit up; second phase play, scurring from Dummy half; decor runners, set moves etc etc is just non evident during McGregors tenure. Rarely see any bullying of the opposition in defence. It’s both a lack intimidation and a lack of any forward’s collective game plan. It’s crap, Embarrassing..

I’d hate to be a Saints forward; you be busted in 12 months due to our limited game plans and poor bench rotations; most are! Harry Bath would have them playing so much differently (with the same players) then this so called bullshit “power game“.

When was the last time Frizell or Simms dominated or influenced a game? There‘s are not State of Origin elite class contributions at all when they play in the Red V and they haven’t been for some time. Cameo and individual contributions at best!
 
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denis preston

First Grade
Messages
5,559
Host is a real quandary for me too.

I have supported him for a long time and keep waiting for him to burst free of his shackles but am still waiting.

in watching some of the body language of the team there seem to be a few that are on the outer or maybe just not accepted fully by the dominant part of the playing group and for mine Host is one of those.

No set plays for him not even attempts to get him into gaps or run decent lines.

it is as if he is told to go out and tackle and keep away from the ball in attack and it has been that way ever since the game he ran into a gap and kicked ahead for his backs and was subsequently dropped after that game.

Same thing with Sailor he goes on last night and is almost shunned by Norman & Hunt (self preservation mode) and instead of getting him involved they isolate him.

How debilitating for your confidence when Sailor runs into the field in his 1st defensive set he is put on the wing with Rava inside him and then the 1st couple of attacking raids he is just standing behind the 2 misfiring playmakers.

Host & Sailor both nice & intelligent young men and not part of the “party boy”
“dumb arse” culture that is IMO evident in our team and I think promoted by career coach.

Spot on. Their managers might suggest another club would revive their career's. That's why Mcmuffin needs to go after this season as the further damage he will do next year sets us back further.
 

dungay dragon

Juniors
Messages
397
Crap...
Great start and as usual capitulate.
Souths are sending all their attack to our right side , and have obviously noted Rava is busted
get him off FFS !!
Our Captian is the most
Spot on. Their managers might suggest another club would revive their career's. That's why Mcmuffin needs to go after this season as the further damage he will do next year sets us back further.
He mentioned in his pressor that " the medical staff passed Rava fit to play "
FMD... Pickworth better be shown the door as well ..
Rava was obviously hampered and couldnt stretch right out . Anyone at the ground or watching on tv could see that...the joint is a laughing stock ..
 

George Dragon

Juniors
Messages
1,731
Souths are sending all their attack to our right side , and have obviously noted Rava is busted
get him off FFS !!
Our Captian is the most

He mentioned in his pressor that " the medical staff passed Rava fit to play "
FMD... Pickworth better be shown the door as well ..
Rava was obviously hampered and couldnt stretch right out . Anyone at the ground or watching on tv could see that...the joint is a laughing stock ..
Pickers should not be allowed anywhere near a player.
 
Messages
2,866
isnt this a couple years in a row we have lost to a souths side without reynolds. its beyond sad,
Summary of last night:
1.Our forwards were outmuscled with Vaughn being the main metre eater - again.
The main difference was that the Souths bench forwards made much more of an impact off the bench than we did.
Interchange management was again mystifying with only one change in the first half and Sailor getting only 14 minutes to show what he can do after the game was done and dusted.
2. Our kicking game is really pathetic - very few kicks actually put any pressure on the back three for Souths and our clearing kicks often resulted in the first tackle completed around the 40 metre mark.
So even though we are sharing most of the stats (possession, completions etc.) we are losing the arm wrestle at most stages during the game.
3. Ravalawa was a passenger - why would you play an injured player at all?
4. Game management - whatever spike in form with have enjoyed over the last few weeks has been closely connected to Hunt playing hooker and Clune as the organizing half.
Clune was growing in stature until he was concussed early in the game last week.
reuniting Hunt and Norman gave us precisely the same result as before.
This time it resulted in another spectacular capitulation after surging to an impressive 16-0 lead to a big hairy 32-24 loss to the Bunnies.
Norman does not belong in FG and while ever McGregor perseveres with him, we will get the very same result as we got last night.
From the little I've seen of Sailor, we could do a lot worse than throwing the keys to Clune and Sailor in the halves.
Hunt back to 9 and Norman given a rest.
Clune has the potential of being a quality half back with the ability to mange our fortunes and closing out games that we should normally win.
5. Defence wins games - great to see us scoring more points but ultimately, we conceded 6 tries.
Johnson burned us with his pace on the outside last night to add to the bag of 5 tries he grabbed a few years ago against us.
Our record against Souths is abysmal and there is nothing to suggest that will improve any time soon.
In fact I think the scoreline flattered us.
6. Scoring points - if there is anything positive to take out of this game, it's the strike power of Dufty, improvement in Aitkin (had to do a double take when I saw him pass to Dufty - couldn't believe it), the enterprise of Lomax and Periera's performance.
Looks like we can score points which was not the case a month ago.
7. Coaching smarts - Bennett showed up McGregor emphatically. Use of the bench. The way he structured his attacking raids out wide and the composure of the whole Team once Reynolds went off.
The come back was hatched in the first half and finished off in the second half.
McGregor did not have a clue as to how to stem the flow and neutralize Walker at any stage.
End result was another capitulation and another loss.
McGregor stomping around the dressing room and doing an impersonation of Bellamy is not going to solve our coaching deficiencies.
He seriously needs to be shown the door.

Next couple of weeks are going to be tough to watch.
 

possm

Coach
Messages
13,900
You are right, he hasn't played in the centre role for a season yet. And as fanboy has pointed out, issues with the inside men have created problems defensively on that side as well - for both him and Aitken. However one try last night, and in previous games (the Joel Thompson try comes to mind immediately) it was just Zac's poor decision making in the line that has lead to tries. He's also made bad defensive decisions during the run of play.

Unlike others, I'm just pointing out deficiencies in his game, just as I and others have pointed out deficiencies in other young players games - Dufty's defence, Aitkens passing, Lawries go forward etc. They all have deficiencies that they need to work on and we have all pointed this out at one point or another. But for some reason, Lomax gets a free ride OR excuses made for him.

As I said, attack wise he's great and he is definitely skillfull. But unlike others, I'm not willing to make outlandish comments at this stage like "he's the best since Gasnier" and "he's the best centre in the game at the moment".

All this crap about age and giving him a break - if he's old enough and good enough to have that sort of praise thrown at him, then he's old enough to accept some criticism in the areas where he needs to improve.
Ex Australian centre and now our illustrious coach - what are his instructions to the centres. Seems odd to me that Lomax is now running up out of the line to shut down-play when it was not a thing he used to do in the lower grades.

But coincidently just happens to be one of Aitken's bad habits that has not been addressed for about 4 years.
 

getsmarty

Referee
Messages
28,815
Again, you are correct. He has played in a few different positions. But Dufty has been in and out of the team and at times not been given a good go, others have been getting 5 minutes off the bench or no game time at all - just as bad for a players confidence. I agree he has probably taken a hit to his confidence, but no more or less than others.

Like you, I am glad we have signed him and kept him. I wouldn't want him playing for any other team. And yeah, I'd rather he stay in the position he is in and improve his game. It will take time and most likely we won't see his true potential until we get a new coach.

I just don't think it helps to be calling him the greatest thing since sliced bread given he's had a couple of good games. I don't have an agenda against him at all, just pointing out that that level of praise is a bit premature. He may get there in the future, but in my opinion it's too early to be making those claims.

Agree....Don't know that I have "Called him the Greatest thing "... but he does have some excellent skills and I think we can agree that hopefully we get a decent coach who can progress all our players.

Have a good weekend @True_Believer
 

Kilkenny

First Grade
Messages
9,392
Watched the game last night. I kinda felt sorry for your coach. Great start 16-0 and then I felt that individual errors from some of your highly paid players let the team down. Some really poor kicking, a couple of intercepts and the Bunnies were allowed back into the game. I understand the frustration around McGregor but gee some of things that happened on the field were surely beyond his control and some players need to put there hands up and accept they stuffed up big time. I was hopeful of a Dragons win and was disappointed you didn’t get the job done.
 

mickeylane

Bench
Messages
3,937
There's good news and bad news..
The good news is that we have the potential to play some really exciting football as witnessed in the first 15 min this week and last week...I mean exhilarating stuff which is equal to any leading teams attack including Roosters.. the flip side is that we cant maintain it for long periods of time and that tells me that the attack is in transition and only now getting used to the new playbooks or style because it's evident the attack has been tweaked...if you're looking for an answer you only had to look at how much more involvement Flanagan had both in the box and the dressing rooms last night in running of the team - in fact, the NRL could conceivably come down on him if they wanted to because last night he looked anything but an assistant coach...the merkin was running the show!
I wonder how much difference JDB would have made to our defences discipline last night...i just think he brings so much fortitude and energy to our team...i
 

hazzbeen

Bench
Messages
4,617
Watched the game last night. I kinda felt sorry for your coach. Great start 16-0 and then I felt that individual errors from some of your highly paid players let the team down. Some really poor kicking, a couple of intercepts and the Bunnies were allowed back into the game. I understand the frustration around McGregor but gee some of things that happened on the field were surely beyond his control and some players need to put there hands up and accept they stuffed up big time. I was hopeful of a Dragons win and was disappointed you didn’t get the job done.
Sorry mate , no sympathy for the coach at all.... The buck stops with him .... He has had 7 years in the helm and if the players are not performing drop them ..... If they are not following instructions drop them.... He said he had the team he wanted ..... its been the same crap for 6 years ...... I know you said you were kinda sorry for him , I would of kinda felt sorry for him too if he hadn't given me 6 years of crap coaching ... Im sure he doesn't feel sorry to all the supporters ...... Nah like I said the buck stops with him ....
 

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