Round 17 vs Melbourne

[Lovemedragons]

Just a 'quickie.

Provided he was fit - and yes, that a big IF - do you reckon Dugan would've made those simple tackles Dufty missed last night?

I can't get over the try where the Melbourne player didn't bother to sidestep around Dufty to score.

Melbourne were in steamroll mode at the time, it took me back to the 70-10 result in 2001.

 

[since77]

Player selection for the bench for that game was unbelievably incompetent. 2 forwards, an aging winger and a replacement hooker who went on and didn’t play hooker. Dumb, dumb, dumb.

 

[Bests Golden Boots]

I thought we were lucky against Parramatta. Two minutes of individual brilliance got us a win.
Someone posted earlier that a friend, ex NRL player that a team can still win with 4 backs out, but with 4 forwards out and Cam Smith playing it was going to be a big ask.
We put 30 points on them, so therefore their defence was subject also.
Host going down was a big moment so early on. Nightingale played about 70 minutes, on the wing that would have been OK. Nightingale been used as a forward was a terrible decision. He was absolutely buggered in the second half.
The ISP players were not affective. They get limited game time off the bench during the season and don’t have the experience playing long minutes in first grade.
Last night exposed our underbelly. We just do not have forwards in the ISP to cover any injuries to our first grade forwards.
Just imagine if one or more forwards were out during our season to date. We would not be where we are today.
The club needs to realise we need to sign a decent front rower and need to have a clean out of the ISP of players and the ISP coach. The coach of the ISP needs to have his players ready for a transition to first grade.
I think we have got through the SOO period we’ll enough. So put this game to bed and get back on track

I think we do have the forwards in ISP.
Host could be great, I like the look of Lawrie, my jury is still out on Sele, Luc I could do without.
However, giving them 5 min off the bench is not preparing them for first grade, that much is obvious.
We are short on props, even shorter with AhMau leaving, but what quality prop is going to come over with Graham and Vaughn in front of him?
Latimore is doing alright, went missing a bit last night, but then again most of them did.

 

[Bests Golden Boots]

Player selection for the bench for that game was unbelievably incompetent. 2 forwards, an aging winger and a replacement hooker who went on and didn’t play hooker. Dumb, dumb, dumb.

We’ve been here before eh?

 

[Carlton]

I'm unsure how Dufty will learn from an experience which requires physical strength as the overriding element.

The jury is still out on that one.

Look, Dufty is an exciting player but the fact remains he still hasn't put in a top performance against any of the leading sides.

It may be part strength but what worries me is his positioning and his apparent reluctance to make contact. This was also the problem when he kicked the bomb, he had plenty of time to get to it but was not willing to commit.

Last week against Parramatta when Hayne scored Dufty was close enough to try to help hold him up but just stood and watched. Attack is a great thing but not at the expense of defence, fullback more than just about any other position has to be a complete player.

 

[giboz71]

Dufty is far from the complete product but he still has time. Has his year and next to fix the issues that will stop him from being a top flight fullback. Defence is still a worry for mine.

Lomax might be a more suitable long term prospect there as he has the size that Dufty lacks.

Lomax can be Tom Turbo like fullback if brought through correctly.

 

[Crush]

Saints have been playing poorly since late May (six weeks ago). Gloss up the stats as much as you can.

Im not glossing up stats. The other poster stated that we had lost 3 of our last 5 when in fact it is 2 of our last 5.
That is just a fact.
I didn't say dragons have been playing well or otherwise just correcting the incorrect statistics.
Thank you.

 

[hazzbeen]

Hep I hear everyone on Duftys defence , but I see it this way who ever would have been fullback other than Dufty this year , we would have lost more games than we have . He is a game breaker he will develop his defense over the time . Last night the whole team got beat before it got to him .

 

[Bests Golden Boots]

Dufty is far from the complete product but he still has time. Has his year and next to fix the issues that will stop him from being a top flight fullback. Defence is still a worry for mine.

Lomax might be a more suitable long term prospect there as he has the size that Dufty lacks.

Lomax can be Tom Turbo like fullback if brought through correctly.

Ha, you said “brought through correctly”, which team do you suppose he going to?

 

[The Damo]

I'm unsure how Dufty will learn from an experience which requires physical strength as the overriding element.

The jury is still out on that one.

Look, Dufty is an exciting player but the fact remains he still hasn't put in a top performance against any of the leading sides.

I though most of his problems last night were in decision making and when/who to commit to tackle rather than getting beaten physically when he did choose. Plus he’s still likely to gain another 3-5 kilos of muscle mass which will help.

 

[Carlton]

Hep I hear everyone on Duftys defence , but I see it this way who ever would have been fullback other than Dufty this year , we would have lost more games than we have . He is a game breaker he will develop his defense over the time . Last night the whole team got beat before it got to him .

I dont agree with this idea that we have won more games because of Dufty than we have lost. The reality is that last night the top line fullbacks would have closed down a number of the plays that led to tries.

Am I excusing the players who allowed the initial break? No way, there was some terrible defence - Nightingale was woeful when he was tired, Luc is big but soft, Widdop was wrong footed for a try, Robson was struggling as was Nicholls later in the game. Lawrie, Sele and Latimore did not have the sting and positioning that DeBelin, Friz and Simms have.

But I am very worried with the lack of physicality displayed by Dufty, the first attribute a fullback needs is courage and not to worry about self preservation. Maybe Graham should concentrate on spending time with Dufty.

 

[Carlton]

I though most of his problems last night were in decision making and when/who to commit to tackle rather than getting beaten physically when he did choose. Plus he’s still likely to gain another 3-5 kilos of muscle mass which will help.

I dont think that it was a matter of not knowing who to commit to, there have been a number of occasions this year where it looks like he is trying not to be involved in contact. He has been regularly physically out muscled including in this match, tackled Young Tonimapea (I think) about 8 metres out from the line and got carried across.

 

[hazzbeen]

I dont agree with this idea that we have won more games because of Dufty than we have lost. The reality is that last night the top line fullbacks would have closed down a number of the plays that led to tries.

Am I excusing the players who allowed the initial break? No way, there was some terrible defence - Nightingale was woeful when he was tired, Luc is big but soft, Widdop was wrong footed for a try, Robson was struggling as was Nicholls later in the game. Lawrie, Sele and Latimore did not have the sting and positioning that DeBelin, Friz and Simms have.

But I am very worried with the lack of physicality displayed by Dufty, the first attribute a fullback needs is courage and not to worry about self preservation. Maybe Graham should concentrate on spending time with Dufty.

Carlton I do understand what you are saying , but lets give him a chance to establish himself and hope he can fix up his issues in defence . He is an exciting young player I have said before he will make mistakes along the way . Lets just give him time .

 

[The Damo]

I dont think that it was a matter of not knowing who to commit to, there have been a number of occasions this year where it looks like he is trying not to be involved in contact. He has been regularly physically out muscled including in this match, tackled Young Tonimapea (I think) about 8 metres out from the line and got carried across.

Ah well agree to disagree - but it was closer to 3m out and Dugan probably wouldn’t have been quick enough to get there.

 

[Carlton]

Carlton I do understand what you are saying , but lets give him a chance to establish himself and hope he can fix up his issues in defence . He is an exciting young player I have said before he will make mistakes along the way . Lets just give him time .

I'm not saying don't give him time but what I want to get across is that so many posters are talking him up as if he is an immortal and don't want to acknowledge that he has things he needs to improve. Before he is accepted as our long term fullback and he must address his positioning and defence. If he cant then regardless of his attack a call needs to be made in a timely manner and an alternative found. Fullback is too important to carry a defensive liability.

If he can address his problems, he has some good attack and would be a good long term fullback. But we need to watch his game without the rose coloured glasses some are wearing and not pretend there are things that aren't up to standard at the moment.

 

[Old Timer]

The Dufty defence issues are quite simple in fact and people are over complicating it.

• If he is confronted with a 2 on 1 or worse make sure you always tackle the ball carrier running at you.
• You have to tackle someone so make sure you hit him as hard as you can (legally).
• This means that if you have a good tackling technique then the ball hogs (Hi to The Man) who try to dummy you will not be scoring a try.
• Those that know full well that you will be tackling then may very well panic and throw the pass way to early thus giving you another option or in fact way too late as you have now made sure he has to do something rather than just run past you.
• By always tackling the ball carrier it therefore means any of your chasing players know full well who they have to go for.

Changa was the best ever at defending 2 on 1's as the ball carrier always knew he was going to get smashed and very often they threw a shit pass, a forward pass, a pass behind the player.
So Dean Young best get down to training and make sure that Dufty's technique is correct (throw yourself under the oncoming traffic if you have to) and instil in him that regardless of how many run at you one of them will not be backing anyone else up if they do get caught.
So young Dufty no more throwing your arms in the air saying how the hell did they get a 2 on 1 on me just make a good tackle and show them you will be there every time making that tackle.
You will be surprised how many tries they will bomb by just making that commitment.

 

[Carlton]

Ah well agree to disagree - but it was closer to 3m out and Dugan probably wouldn’t have been quick enough to get there.

Damo one thing you cant critcise Dugan about was his defence at fullback, he probably would have been there and stopped the try. Its funny how quickly people forget the number of games he won for us with his defence.

 

[Carlton]

The Dufty defence issues are quite simple in fact and people are over complicating it.

• If he is confronted with a 2 on 1 or worse make sure you always tackle the ball carrier running at you.
• You have to tackle someone so make sure you hit him as hard as you can (legally).
• This means that if you have a good tackling technique then the ball hogs (Hi to The Man) who try to dummy you will not be scoring a try.
• Those that know full well that you will be tackling then may very well panic and throw the pass way to early thus giving you another option or in fact way too late as you have now made sure he has to do something rather than just run past you.
• By always tackling the ball carrier it therefore means any of your chasing players know full well who they have to go for.

Changa was the best ever at defending 2 on 1's as the ball carrier always knew he was going to get smashed and very often they threw a shit pass, a forward pass, a pass behind the player.
So Dean Young best get down to training and make sure that Dufty's technique is correct (throw yourself under the oncoming traffic if you have to) and instil in him that regardless of how many run at you one of them will not be backing anyone else up if they do get caught.
So young Dufty no more throwing your arms in the air saying how the hell did they get a 2 on 1 on me just make a good tackle and show them you will be there every time making that tackle.
You will be surprised how many tries they will bomb by just making that commitment.

Agree OT, but what worried me was he avoided contact, it wasn't just a decision making issue. This is also shown as he doesn't move forward, his movement is lateral and often backwards across field. There were a couple of occasions in that game when he had two in front of him, he stood still and then attempted to either intercept the pass or knock it down.

 

[The Damo]

Damo one thing you cant critcise Dugan about was his defence at fullback, he probably would have been there and stopped the try. Its funny how quickly people forget the number of games he won for us with his defence.

Wasn’t meant to be a criticism. Dugan was, and maybe still is, the best defensive fullback in the game. But Dufty is noticeably quicker was my point. Though Dugan May have read it earlier and been better positioned.
Still happy to have Duffman as our 1 either way.

 

[Gareth67]

Dufty still has a lot to work on. He does good things but in a game like this they did not out weigh the errors and defensive deficiencies.

I am still not convinced he is the answer as the long term fullback.

Duffy's judgement in kicking that ball instead of catching it will leave me with nightmares for years to come . Opposition teams will be throwing bombs down his throat for the rest of the season , so someone needs to take him aside at training and constantly kick to him so at least he will be better prepared . He must up the ante in both his ball security and defence .