Round 17 vs Melbourne

[getsmarty]

Damo one thing you cant critcise Dugan about was his defence at fullback, he probably would have been there and stopped the try. Its funny how quickly people forget the number of games he won for us with his defence.

And yet Dugan would not have been fast enough to score most of Dufty's tries.

 

[Drag Queen]

I dont agree with this idea that we have won more games because of Dufty than we have lost. The reality is that last night the top line fullbacks would have closed down a number of the plays that led to tries.

Am I excusing the players who allowed the initial break? No way, there was some terrible defence - Nightingale was woeful when he was tired, Luc is big but soft, Widdop was wrong footed for a try, Robson was struggling as was Nicholls later in the game. Lawrie, Sele and Latimore did not have the sting and positioning that DeBelin, Friz and Simms have.

But I am very worried with the lack of physicality displayed by Dufty, the first attribute a fullback needs is courage and not to worry about self preservation. Maybe Graham should concentrate on spending time with Dufty.

Perhaps he could have a look at Damian McKenzie, the young AB player for ideas. Different code, but same age and McKenzie is even smaller than Dufty. Fearless little bugger and a giant slayer.

 

[Carlton]

And yet Dugan would not have been fast enough to score most of Dufty's tries.

The issue isn't Dugan, he plays for the sharks and defensively was a very good fullback.

The issue is Dufty, he plays for us and is defensively a very weak fullback. Defence at fullback is the thing that is a weakness for us at the moment.

 

[blacksafake]

He keeps getting 1st grade time (and talked up in here) so I can't see that he is not being brought through and at the moment in fact you would have to say he is very much in their plans.
He has always been an arm grabber (not so bad when jerseys were loose and had sleeves) and it has never been coached out of him so obviously they think he will conquer 1st grade with blistering attack as he did U/20's which is ludicrous.
I said some time ago he will go down as another Bryce Cartwright as his ball playing ability will be nullified and no team needs a 2nd 5/8 that is lazy and can't tackle.

Hard to argue with OT.
If you watch the 1st Storm try when the ball went up he was stargazing instead of getting back to cover unlike Graham who was totally stuffed but was still chasing on their last try.

 

[blacksafake]

Firstly, I'm not going to bag any player, I think they all played to their limits. There were zero passengers.

Take-aways are:
1. Game was always going to be difficult to win when we lost Host after 5 mins and I really think Graham was concussed for most of the game.
2. Storm attack centred through where Host would have been defending.
3. Great character to stay in the game for basically 70 mins
4. Nighty made 40 tackles, he'd be lucky to make 40 for a season on the wing. Huge effort, but sometimes effort doesn't equal requirement.
5. LAM will be a huge loss for us next year. Best Dragon out there. 27 tackles 0 missed and 141m ran.
6. Our much talked about plan for back-up, misfired. You simply can't expect player with 5 min from the bench to make the required leap. They tried and credit to them for that, but in reality they were let down. Compare to Bellamy and the Storm .
7. Cameron Smith, as much as a *^%$ he is, he really knows how to control a game.
8. Missed tackled were the most I've seen from the Dragons for a long time (45)
9. Luciano needs a lot more fitness, but I thought his game improved after he scored his maiden try.
10. Widdop's a great goal kicker when on-song
11. I think we now know why Sele is unsigned for next year (atm).

As I said no complaints to our players. Nothing more they could have done under the circumstances. It would have been interesting to see the score line if Host hadn't got injured.
Let's all swallow the bitter pill, and move on to the next round when we should be at full strength again, hopefully!

Agree 100% Dragonslayer with numbers 1,2,3,4,6&7.
Host was a huge loss so early.

 

[hazzbeen]

The issue isn't Dugan, he plays for the sharks and defensively was a very good fullback.

The issue is Dufty, he plays for us and is defensively a very weak fullback. Defence at fullback is the thing that is a weakness for us at the moment.

Yes it is , but what others are saying is he has given us an attack that has been missing . At the moment its like this will he lose us games in the semifinals because of his defense or will he win us games because of his attack and try assists that was missing the last couple of years . I know he is not perfect in anyway but he in my opinion will be OK in the long run ... Carlton I respect your opinion but mine differs a bit ..

 

[blacksafake]

I don't think leading the comp after 16 rounds is relevant. What it does show that so called premiership contenders that concede 50 points have a soft underbelly.

How many of those past teams had 4 starting forwards out,no 1/2 lost an important player(Host) early,an over the hill small winger replace him etc.

 

[getsmarty]

The issue isn't Dugan, he plays for the sharks and defensively was a very good fullback.

The issue is Dufty, he plays for us and is defensively a very weak fullback. Defence at fullback is the thing that is a weakness for us at the moment.

Don't exaggerate...1st full year in 1st grade...Has saved plenty of tries and missed a few tackles..( Guys like Slater/Tedesco/Thurston miss similar tackles )..Dufty has an X factor about him....Some fans are never satisfied...Maybe you would be happy if Nightingale was fullback....How about supporting our Young players....give them a chance to develop..They will make mistakes along the way .but that is what learning your craft is about..

 

[Carlton]

Yes it is , but what others are saying is he has given us an attack that has been missing . At the moment its like this will he lose us games in the semifinals because of his defense or will he win us games because of his attack and try assists that was missing the last couple of years . I know he is not perfect in anyway but he in my opinion will be OK in the long run ... Carlton I respect your opinion but mine differs a bit ..

I think the biggest difference in our opinions are that you are confident he will be good long term and I don't know whether he will or will not be good long term.

 

[Dragonslayer]

OMG!
I cant stop laughing at some of you.
Nitpicking about this player should do this and that......armchair experts.
We lost, build a bridge, and get over it.
Like Dugan would "probably" have stopped some of those tries. Well yeah he may have, but would he have set up Mann for his 2nd?, no he would have gone for it himself and "probably" lost the vall or got tackled short killing the momentum.
Nighty is done, well yeah he is, he's "probably" still sleeping from last night. Lets face reality, he's been pkaying 15 od si mins from the bench, and then last night thrown in to play edge forward for 70 mins and make 40 tackles. He's well and truly done now.
If you want to cast any blame, just look at the planning for this game and the players selected, particularly onbthe bench. Then look what plan was devised when Host was injured.
Thats where these threads should be examining not the players who really gave their all.

 

[hazzbeen]

I think the biggest difference in our opinions are that you are confident he will be good long term and I don't know whether he will or will not be good long term.

All good mate , let's just hope the whole team lifts soon .....

 

[blacksafake]

The Dufty defence issues are quite simple in fact and people are over complicating it.

• If he is confronted with a 2 on 1 or worse make sure you always tackle the ball carrier running at you.
• You have to tackle someone so make sure you hit him as hard as you can (legally).
• This means that if you have a good tackling technique then the ball hogs (Hi to The Man) who try to dummy you will not be scoring a try.
• Those that know full well that you will be tackling then may very well panic and throw the pass way to early thus giving you another option or in fact way too late as you have now made sure he has to do something rather than just run past you.
• By always tackling the ball carrier it therefore means any of your chasing players know full well who they have to go for.

Changa was the best ever at defending 2 on 1's as the ball carrier always knew he was going to get smashed and very often they threw a shit pass, a forward pass, a pass behind the player.
So Dean Young best get down to training and make sure that Dufty's technique is correct (throw yourself under the oncoming traffic if you have to) and instil in him that regardless of how many run at you one of them will not be backing anyone else up if they do get caught.
So young Dufty no more throwing your arms in the air saying how the hell did they get a 2 on 1 on me just make a good tackle and show them you will be there every time making that tackle.
You will be surprised how many tries they will bomb by just making that commitment.

Changa certainly was but Eadie wasn't far behind.

 

[slippery5]

No sure how this relates to a historical statistic spanning decades (incorporating SOO) which says that NO team has won the competition after it has conceded 50 points in a premiership game.

Anywho...

It seems you're a bit animated?

It's pretty simple, did any of those teams (SOO era included) have 4x of there most important forwards & 1x of their play makers unavailable when the opposition put 50 on them. No animation intended.

 

[slippery5]

I think we do have the forwards in ISP.
Host could be great, I like the look of Lawrie, my jury is still out on Sele, Luc I could do without.
However, giving them 5 min off the bench is not preparing them for first grade, that much is obvious.
We are short on props, even shorter with AhMau leaving, but what quality prop is going to come over with Graham and Vaughn in front of him?
Latimore is doing alright, went missing a bit last night, but then again most of them did.

Latimore went missing because he didn't have the regular go forwards to make him look good, as I have been saying, if any of those replacements in the side last night had been giving the opportunity to feel comfortable playing 1st grade on a regular bases, the question of who is ready, wouldn't be asked. He doesn't fool me & last night proved it .

 

[JohnnoMcJohnno]

The Dufty defence issues are quite simple in fact and people are over complicating it.

• If he is confronted with a 2 on 1 or worse make sure you always tackle the ball carrier running at you.
• You have to tackle someone so make sure you hit him as hard as you can (legally).
• This means that if you have a good tackling technique then the ball hogs (Hi to The Man) who try to dummy you will not be scoring a try.
• Those that know full well that you will be tackling then may very well panic and throw the pass way to early thus giving you another option or in fact way too late as you have now made sure he has to do something rather than just run past you.
• By always tackling the ball carrier it therefore means any of your chasing players know full well who they have to go for.

Changa was the best ever at defending 2 on 1's as the ball carrier always knew he was going to get smashed and very often they threw a shit pass, a forward pass, a pass behind the player.
So Dean Young best get down to training and make sure that Dufty's technique is correct (throw yourself under the oncoming traffic if you have to) and instil in him that regardless of how many run at you one of them will not be backing anyone else up if they do get caught.
So young Dufty no more throwing your arms in the air saying how the hell did they get a 2 on 1 on me just make a good tackle and show them you will be there every time making that tackle.
You will be surprised how many tries they will bomb by just making that commitment.

The great French fullback Puig-Aubert always went for the man with the ball in two on one situations. If there were three on one, he would just shrug his shoulders on the basis if the rest of the team couldn't stop them, what hope did he have on his own.

 

[Blood Shot Eyes]

We went into the game with inexperienced forwards and decided it was a great idea to have a winger and a backup hooker on the bench.
Host went down early with a dislocated shoulder and we thought it was a great idea to play an old winger in the centre of the field for 70 minutes, that didn’t work out so well later in the game.
Appearantly in ISP it’s perfectly acceptable to turn your back in defence when going going back the ten metres, Cameron Smith loved that idea and carved them up for it.
Luciano Leilua thought it was a great idea to attempt to tackle by grabbing peoples arms as they ran past him, so did Melbourne.
That about sums it up.

Thanks for the heads up BGB....sounds to me like Marys non preperation and use of our bench at times earlier in the season is coming back to bite us like we all predicted......hopefull things improve when we have our rep players back on deck and barring injuries we start to gel again..back on 3rd August so please fellas keep the flag flying...cheers all

 

[TruSaint]

Thanks for the heads up BGB....sounds to me like Marys non preperation and use of our bench at times earlier in the season is coming back to bite us like we all predicted......hopefull things improve when we have our rep players back on deck and barring injuries we start to gel again..back on 3rd August so please fellas keep the flag flying...cheers all

Where u been champion ?

Or have i missed your posts.. ? Hope all is well

 

[Saint_JimmyG]

It's pretty simple, did any of those teams (SOO era included) have 4x of there most important forwards & 1x of their play makers unavailable when the opposition put 50 on them. No animation intended.

I'm unsure about specifics but I do know one thing.

That is, every premiership winning team since 1908 (including those from the SOO era) did NOT have 50 points put on them during their successful seasons.

And, I'm sure that there have many clubs (for example, Brisbane) which were impacted far more heavily through representation commitments too.

 

[Saint_JimmyG]

I though most of his problems last night were in decision making and when/who to commit to tackle rather than getting beaten physically when he did choose. Plus he’s still likely to gain another 3-5 kilos of muscle mass which will help.

Is he going to train with Stephen Dank and Cronulla during the off season?

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

 

[Saint_JimmyG]

Im not glossing up stats. The other poster stated that we had lost 3 of our last 5 when in fact it is 2 of our last 5.
That is just a fact.
I didn't say dragons have been playing well or otherwise just correcting the incorrect statistics.
Thank you.

Have you heard of inference?