Round 2 vs Sharks

[Frank Facer]

I will say that anyone criticising Dufty for the high ball that he let bounce. I suggest you personally try to take a high torpedo bomb with the wind swirling. I am telling you all that you can be standing under a ball and then it suddenly changes trajectory and can be almost impossible to catch.

Years ago I had a touch footy team, named Fire Up, after Mark Gasnier's famous quote. I thought I was fine catching bombs. Well before one of our games, some of our players were putting up those torpedo bombs and I was missing more than I was catching, I couldn't even get a hand on some. If I had not experienced that, I would not have understood how difficult it can be to take a torpedo bomb with the wind swirling.

 

[Bests Golden Boots]

If you are going to criticise at least get it right. I have said right from the start that I think Dufty has a lot of potential but as yet is not up to speed as a first grade fullback. I am not death riding him but I also am not looking past his deficiencies and pretending he is more than he is.

We spent a lot of money on a half back, spent another large amount of money on a 5/8, resigned our hooker for an extended period and yet gamble on the last member of the spine. If you look back my argument has always been why gamble, find a genuine, at the moment, first grade fullback.

I don't buy the give juniors a go chant, for me its give juniors a go if they are the best in the club or they are genuinely capable of playing first grade. Some of the juniors being pushed for first grade are good but not yet first grade ready.

I don't get your point?
So we should go shopping for a "genuine first grade fullback"?

I'll be the first to admit that what passes as reserve grade is currently substandard, it dosnt prepare players for first grade anymore.
But if every club took the attitude of "well just buy a better player" where the hell are those players going to come from? You'll get the occasional freak that kills it in first grade from 18 y.o, but apart from that it'll take work on the younger guys to make it.
If clubs don't put that work and faith in young guys the game dies.

Dufty has is issues, but you can't deny his obvious potential, that potential will take time to develop and the best way to develop that is by giving the kid an extended run at the position, not cast him aside after a few bad games.
You can see he's working on combinations with Hunt and Widdop to exploit his obvious speed, that will come with time and practice.
He will get work on getting to the ground in the tackle, maybe some better judgement under the high ball and his defensive positioning.

But the potential is there, it just needs work, reserve grade isn't where it's going to be found.

 

[RedV Resurgence]

I don’t agree I have read all your posts and you are very critical maybe because of your belief he is not up to it... I think he is and I also think he is working hard on areas like defence and high balls
He has not shown yet what he can do in attack but believe me he will
I don’t know why some st George supporters harp on negatives and what ifs
Tedesco was ordinary last week
Holmes ordinary last week and last night
Boyd ordinary last week
I don’t get yr point Dufty is doing really well and will only get better
As loyal saints supporters why can’t we get behind the players we have
I’m sorry I just don’t understand the logic in pulling apart his game constantly and not focusing on where he is improving
Let’s agree to disagree

I'm probably alone here, but I grab we never got Tedesco. He is so hot and cold. Also, I don't think he plays well in big games.

Having seen Duffty play in the lower grades, he certainly has the potential and I'm glad he is getting the opportunity from the start of the year. Lets review his progress after another 10 -15 games, I think he will learn learn some lessons ( getting to the ground close to his line and and near the sideline).

We need to sort out our centres - our best centre is sitting on the bench.

 

[Dennis Papaioannou]

I will say that anyone criticising Dufty for the high ball that he let bounce. I suggest you personally try to take a high torpedo bomb with the wind swirling. I am telling you all that you can be standing under a ball and then it suddenly changes trajectory and can be almost impossible to catch.

Years ago I had a touch footy team, named Fire Up, after Mark Gasnier's famous quote. I thought I was fine catching bombs. Well before one of our games, some of our players were putting up those torpedo bombs and I was missing more than I was catching, I couldn't even get a hand on some. If I had not experienced that, I would not have understood how difficult it can be to take a torpedo bomb with the wind swirling.

As an alternative point of view, I watched Dugan in the second half (at the same end that Dufty missed his bomb) fielding torpedo bombs with aplomb.
There were 3 that I remember for sure.
I'm sorry, FG fullbacks can cope with any conditions and are expected to diffuse those situations.
Fortunately, it didn't cost us points but if it had done, I'm not sure you would have been so forgiving.

 

[saintm]

As an alternative point of view, I watched Dugan in the second half (at the same end that Dufty missed his bomb) fielding torpedo bombs with aplomb.
There were 3 that I remember for sure.
I'm sorry, FG fullbacks can cope with any conditions and are expected to diffuse those situations.
Fortunately, it didn't cost us points but if it had done, I'm not sure you would have been so forgiving.

What about Dugan dropping the ball over the line? Again if it had been Dufty God help us we wouldn’t hear the end of it
My point in all this is why do only some players cop the brunt of criticism? They all make mistakes

 

[dragonssamy61]

Good win bitches.
Seriously embarrassed by what my team dished up in the 2nd 40.

See you next game.

 

[dragonssamy61]

Just a heads up.

Our next 3 rounds are Titans, Knights and Bunnies. If we continue this form, we should win those three.
5/5 to start the year would be glorious.

And the knights at the gong on Easter day and the rabbits at kogarah on the friday.
We need to win games were we are favourites as well

 

[Dennis Papaioannou]

What about Dugan dropping the ball over the line? Again if it had been Dufty God help us we wouldn’t hear the end of it
My point in all this is why do only some players cop the brunt of criticism? They all make mistakes

I honestly think it is a perception that you have rather than reality. I don't see it as criticism.
People on here are passionate.
It's human nature to offer opinions and to scrutinize.
Once you are watching sport at this level, your expectations are much higher than say watching an under 12's game down at the local oval. Wouldn't you agree?
Dugan is not perfect for sure but the example you gave is not comparable.
He had 2 or 3 defenders pushing him over the touchline when he lost possession - hardly "dropped the ball over the line"
More like great defending rather than Dugan's fault..
In any case, positions like FB are always going to be under the microscope no matter who plays there.
Personally I think Dufty is an exciting player who will tear some teams apart with his broken field running.
However, the only way he is ever going to become the next Billy Slater is game time and working on his weaknesses which he seems to be doing.

 

[saintm]

I honestly think it is a perception that you have rather than reality. I don't see it as criticism.
People on here are passionate.
It's human nature to offer opinions and to scrutinize.
Once you are watching sport at this level, your expectations are much higher than say watching an under 12's game down at the local oval. Wouldn't you agree?
Dugan is not perfect for sure but the example you gave is not comparable.
He had 2 or 3 defenders pushing him over the touchline when he lost possession - hardly "dropped the ball over the line"
More like great defending rather than Dugan's fault..
In any case, positions like FB are always going to be under the microscope no matter who plays there.
Personally I think Dufty is an exciting player who will tear some teams apart with his broken field running.
However, the only way he is ever going to become the next Billy Slater is game time and working on his weaknesses which he seems to be doing.

I agree but some of the posts on this forum make my blood boil
2 weeks ago some on the forum were calling for nene and Euan to be dropped now the opinions are changing to Euan playing soo. !
I think constructive and realistic criticism are good but so many voice only the negatives in my opinion Dufty was pretty solid last night he didn’t drop the high ball he pulled out ... and yes I agree he should have attacked it he caught 3 highballs before that one diving for it
All in all yes he needs to keep improving which he is working at
I try not to bag any of the players and believe they will all have good bad and average games

 

[Carlton]

I don't get your point?
So we should go shopping for a "genuine first grade fullback"?

I'll be the first to admit that what passes as reserve grade is currently substandard, it dosnt prepare players for first grade anymore.
But if every club took the attitude of "well just buy a better player" where the hell are those players going to come from? You'll get the occasional freak that kills it in first grade from 18 y.o, but apart from that it'll take work on the younger guys to make it.
If clubs don't put that work and faith in young guys the game dies.

Dufty has is issues, but you can't deny his obvious potential, that potential will take time to develop and the best way to develop that is by giving the kid an extended run at the position, not cast him aside after a few bad games.
You can see he's working on combinations with Hunt and Widdop to exploit his obvious speed, that will come with time and practice.
He will get work on getting to the ground in the tackle, maybe some better judgement under the high ball and his defensive positioning.

But the potential is there, it just needs work, reserve grade isn't where it's going to be found.

My point is we have spent a lot of money on the spine but have compromised on the fullback. I don't accept that we have to wait and see if he will be able to become a good first grade fullback and waste another year. If we go to all the trouble of addressing issues we had with the spine then do it properly.

You say Dufty is not there yet and that he can work on things and maybe improve. I say why does this have to happen in first grade. Would I like to see a junior make it, hell yeah. But the number of promising juniors that actually make it is very small. I don't want a player in first grade on potential, I want them there on performance.

Just because I see deficiencies in his game does not mean I am down on him. Whats the point of walking around with your head in the sand and pretending he doesn't have a number of them or that they should be overlooked because he is a junior.

 

[Old Timer]

Just a heads up.

Our next 3 rounds are Titans, Knights and Bunnies. If we continue this form, we should win those three.
5/5 to start the year would be glorious.

Out of that lot the Knights will be our toughest game and I expect them to be difficult.
Good organising (club) half back.
Forwards that will keep coming up the centre of the paddock with speed.
Backs that play with fluidity and speed.
A team that is much improved and matured than last year.
That game will be played at speed and we will need a proper bench rotation to cope with that.

 

[Carlton]

I agree but some of the posts on this forum make my blood boil
2 weeks ago some on the forum were calling for nene and Euan to be dropped now the opinions are changing to Euan playing soo. !
I think constructive and realistic criticism are good but so many voice only the negatives in my opinion Dufty was pretty solid last night he didn’t drop the high ball he pulled out ... and yes I agree he should have attacked it he caught 3 highballs before that one diving for it
All in all yes he needs to keep improving which he is working at
I try not to bag any of the players and believe they will all have good bad and average games

Lets be clear I didn't highlight the missed catch, the things that concern me are being rag dolled, poor positioning in defence, lack of ball playing (which is one of the things we supposedly needed in a fullback) and his running like a junior.

 

[Crush]

Just a heads up.

Our next 3 rounds are Titans, Knights and Bunnies. If we continue this form, we should win those three.
5/5 to start the year would be glorious.

Oh come on mate! You just jinxed us big time now!
2/5

 

[denis preston]

As an alternative point of view, I watched Dugan in the second half (at the same end that Dufty missed his bomb) fielding torpedo bombs with aplomb.
There were 3 that I remember for sure.
I'm sorry, FG fullbacks can cope with any conditions and are expected to diffuse those situations.
Fortunately, it didn't cost us points but if it had done, I'm not sure you would have been so forgiving.

To be fair , was the wind the same in the second half ? Anyone who was at the game please comment.

 

[Old Timer]

My point is we have spent a lot of money on the spine but have compromised on the fullback. I don't accept that we have to wait and see if he will be able to become a good first grade fullback and waste another year. If we go to all the trouble of addressing issues we had with the spine then do it properly.

You say Dufty is not there yet and that he can work on things and maybe improve. I say why does this have to happen in first grade. Would I like to see a junior make it, hell yeah. But the number of promising juniors that actually make it is very small. I don't want a player in first grade on potential, I want them there on performance.

Just because I see deficiencies in his game does not mean I am down on him. Whats the point of walking around with your head in the sand and pretending he doesn't have a number of them or that they should be overlooked because he is a junior.

In the end he will never acquire those skills in reggies because down there it is a totally different game.
The only way he will improve to cope with 1st grade pressure and scrutiny is to actually play 1st grade.
Nobody ever comes into 1st grade in the modern game without making mistakes and it will take 20 odd full games to get it all to fit into place and even then they will have the occasional shocker.
It is a test of the coaches ability to give the kids every opportunity to cope and then it is also the coaches ability to work out when they will never make it.
Our bloke can't teach young players, gets far too nervous with them and drops them too early whilst continuing to pick mature players who are playing poorly.
This double standard is one of the worst things we as fans put up with and good coaches simply don't do that.

 

[PuffGasnier]

Good win bitches.
Seriously embarrassed by what my team dished up in the 2nd 40.

I was 100% sure that we were dead to rights until Widdop kicked for MacDonald and our first try, real shame the game devolved into who could make the least errors in the second half, but my lord if it didn't make it just a little bit exciting.

Can't say I feel really sorry for you, never going to whinge about getting over the Sharks, but let's hope when we meet again in a month both of us put in a better showing. When we win, I want to win because we shone, not because we weren't the shittest team on the park for the last 40 minutes.

 

[Old Timer]

To be fair , was the wind the same in the second half ? Anyone who was at the game please comment.

Mc Fookknuckle looked like he had wind in both halves and it was so bad he nearly shit himself in the last 3 minutes.
On a more serious note the wind was unpredictable and gusty all night and was not easy for anyone.
Duges is great in those situations and so he should be after all these years.
Dufty did well, is a smart kid and will take a lot out of it.

 

[Dennis Papaioannou]

I agree but some of the posts on this forum make my blood boil
2 weeks ago some on the forum were calling for nene and Euan to be dropped now the opinions are changing to Euan playing soo. !
I think constructive and realistic criticism are good but so many voice only the negatives in my opinion Dufty was pretty solid last night he didn’t drop the high ball he pulled out ... and yes I agree he should have attacked it he caught 3 highballs before that one diving for it
All in all yes he needs to keep improving which he is working at
I try not to bag any of the players and believe they will all have good bad and average games

I get your frustration but let's face it, the negativity surrounding Nene and even Aitkin has some serious merit based on last year's performances.
Having said that, I have read plenty of posts praising both payers after last nights performance.
I thought McDonald had his best game for us ever and the stats back that up as he ran for over 200m and scored a try.
In the Dufty example, if you look closely he actually tried to trap the ball with his foot and missed it.
Let's give credit where credit's due but we must also have perspective.

 

[SBD82]

Very tough on dufty to be criticising him after last night.

He put his body on the line in defence, particularly on our goal line. Having his speed as an option out the back forced the Cronulla side to play a decompressed defence, and it gave widdop, hunt, sims and frizzel more room.

He missed one tough bomb, and caught another couple. He also picked his lines well to not get bundled into touch. He had one instance where he didn't get to ground early enough when coming off his line.

The sharks three quarter line had a target on him on kick returns, they really worked him over, but he didn't drop his head and he kept coming all night.

If a fullback as young as him stands up to the pressure that was aimed at him all night, you don't slam him for one or two errors. Very easy for a young bloke to crumble in that situation, but he stood tall. (Metaphorically speaking of course)

 

[gregstar]

so.....

in this scenario do cronulla go in with a slender 1-0 half time lead, or kick a meaningless, yet hilarious field goal at the end of the game?

I say you will win 20-12
2 trys each with St George kicking an additional 4 penalty goals

spooky!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!