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Round 20 vs Storm

since77

Juniors
Messages
1,248
Alex McKinnon .
Exactly. That team is coached to hurt opposition players. I was gob smacked how culturally ingrained in that team it is when I was watching yesterday. When the second tier side plays exactly as grubby as the first string team, there’s no doubt they’re all coached to do the same thing. Brandon Smith was a niggling c%nt the entire game.
 

Dragsters

Bench
Messages
4,717
I don't mind a coach looking for a way to gain advantage over opposing teams but their has to be a limit as to how far teams will go, for the good of the game if nothing else...

Melbourne were the first team to employ a Jiu-Jitsu coach to gain advantage at the ruck and for anyone who doesn't know what Jiu-Jitsu is it is a form of martial arts that is taught in a way to subdue an opponent through such grappling techniques as throws , joint manipulation and takedowns...

After watching that disgraceful tackle yesterday and seeing Bellamy jump to the defence of his player and his team, i think it's time the league step in and really cut this shit out of the game by making an example of this bloke and throwing the book at him and setting a precedence.

The game in a lot of ways is going down hill with ridiculous bunker decisions (like the no try to Campbell Graham on Friday night in the Souths game) and stupid penalties that often can decide games. But the last thing i want to see is a young players leg snapped in two because of a tackling technique that is coached to gain advantage...

A line in the sand has to be drawn somewhere and here it is. Set the example that this garbage wont be tolerated and clean up this blight on the game before someone's career is ended...

Pull your finger out NRL and get this shit out of the game before it is too late....

Agreed and its time that those responsible are held to some form of account and by that i mean the coaches who employ these tactics and coerce these players to play this way.

It's about time the coaches take some responsibility for the potential damage their dangerous wrestling and submission tactics can do...
 
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TruSaint

Coach
Messages
18,903
Exactly. That team is coached to hurt opposition players. I was gob smacked how culturally ingrained in that team it is when I was watching yesterday. When the second tier side plays exactly as grubby as the first string team, there’s no doubt they’re all coached to do the same thing. Brandon Smith was a niggling c%nt the entire game.

I thought I was alone in noticing B Smith.
Great player, but a real grub.

Bellamy's stellar record will always have an asterisk next to it.
 

gregstar

Referee
Messages
20,227
Gregstar you play what’s in front of you they are still the storm and they are playing first grade regardless.
Doesn't change the fact that what was in front of them was a reserve grade team. How you see it is up to you. Calling them first grade is the same as calling Ben Kusto an immortal.
Go the young blokes good to see.
Agreed - but young blokes should have been given a run as soon as we were out of contention & when key players like Norman needed to be dropped.
 

redandwhite4evr

Juniors
Messages
1,406
Take aways form yesterday
  1. Mc Innes showed what he can do from dummy half with a bloke in the halves that wants to back himself.
  2. Hunt & Norman not missed in the slightest and allowed others to take some leadership and control of the situation.
  3. All our debutants and recent debutants did extremely well and should hold their heads very high.
  4. Dufty started sniffing around the ruck and we instantly looked much much better for it.
  5. Very pleased for Frizz and how much better did he look thanks to a rookie who new how to use him.
Agree OT- a special mention to Max F who was playing in an unfamiliar position and pulled off some crunching tackles and ran with great strength and purpose- could be an upgrade on JP.
 

getsmarty

Referee
Messages
28,890
NRL considers bigger penalties to stamp out hip-drop dangers
Christian Nicolussi and Adam Pengilly
September 28, 2020 — 7.30pm
Greg Alexander has doubled down on his scathing critique about the dangerous hip-drop tackle, asking: "How many more broken ankles or ligament damage to ankles or knees do we need before we go, 'this isn't good, we better stamp it out'?"

Storm forward Max King was referred straight to the NRL judiciary for a hip-drop during a three-man tackle on St George Illawarra Dragons' rival Blake Lawrie on Sunday.

Andrew Johns was filthy at the Storm for a 'dangerous' tackle

In referring King straight to the judiciary, the NRL escalated its attempts to crack down on the dangerous hip-drop tactic and League HQ may go even further, with NRL head of football Graham Annesley saying they may increase penalties for the judo-style move next year if it continues to occur.

King, who will be represented by lawyer Nick Ghabar at the judiciary on Tuesday night, faces a minimum three-week suspension if found guilty.

King apologised to Lawrie twice during the game and was said to be shattered his 50th NRL game was overshadowed by the incident.

Alexander, the former Kangaroos star turned commentator, was critical about King's effort during FoxSports' broadcast, saying the hip-drop tackle had an "intent to injure".

6138c444ecd9c1b69c361f6126764007b7f80b70

Max King's hip-drop tackle on Blake Lawrie.Credit:Fox Sports screengrab

That angered Melbourne coach Craig Bellamy, who labelled Alexander's comments as "ridiculous" post-match and said: "I'd very disappointed if any player in the competition goes out to intentionally injure an opposition player".

Storm skipper Cameron Smith conceded the tackle was awkward.

"I know the tackle involved with Maxy didn't look great at all, if anything it was quite clumsy," Smith said. "But it's expected these things are raised at this time of year and it's just unfortunate that incident happened on the eve of the finals."

Alexander refused to back down despite Bellamy's angry response, saying the Melbourne coach was "splitting hairs".

Alexander said Canberra forward Emre Guler and Brisbane's David Fifita had already suffered season-ending ankle injuries because of a hip-drop tackles, and the only way to eradicate the tactic was harsh penalties.

"The player making that tackle had total disregard for the welfare of the bloke with the ball," Alexander said.

"I know he's not thinking at that split second, 'I want to injure this player, but he knows the tackle has a huge chance of doing exactly what happened to Emre Guler or even Blake Lawrie who had to leave the field.

"It's only by the grace of God he [Lawrie] didn't break his ankle.

"I remember saying this about the crusher tackle three years ago and how it was the worst tackle in the game. It took a while for us to think, 'shit, this is a bad tackle'.

"How many more broken ankles or ligament damage to ankles or knees do we need to go, 'this isn't good, we better stamp it out'?

"The crusher tackles and hip drops, you can tell the ones which are intentional. The only way you do that is by making the penalties bigger."

Asked whether the NRL could increase base penalties similarly to the crusher tackle crackdown, Annesley said: "Most definitely. I'd prefer the message was getting through a little louder and clearer.

"I'm not suggesting these things are coached, but sometimes trends emerge in our game. We'll review it at the end of the year and if we feel the penalties need to be stronger for this type of tackle we'll address that.

"We'll try to examine why it's happening, just as we have with crusher tackles. If we feel having done that analysis that the only way to try to prevent certain practices from taking place is to use a heavier hand through the match review and judicial process, then that's what we'll do.

"We're not doing it to punish players, we're doing it to keep players safer."


https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/nr...amp-out-hip-drop-dangers-20200928-p55zyu.html
 

Qapm

Juniors
Messages
156
I thought I was alone in noticing B Smith.
Great player, but a real grub.

Bellamy's stellar record will always have an asterisk next to it.

I'm not a Storm hater but watching this match, especially the first half almost got me there.

Glad to see a Dragons win, and especially glad they beat the lot playing against them.

Hate Frizzell is leaving but he went out in a good way.
 

Gareth67

First Grade
Messages
7,218
From the team that brought you the grapple tackle, and then the chicken wing. Introducing the all new hip-drop! Coming to a Storm game near you.

The Storm are grubs. If they can wrestle and injure a player they will.

I , as you and just about every league fan feels the same dragon_around , they are a pack of mongrels whom have been coached (?) that way for as long as Bellamy has been there .

The shame of it all is that there is absolutely no reason to go the lengths that he has . They are a tremendous attacking team and I am sure that if their defense was not reliant upon these vicious wrestling- Kwai Kwon Doe ( or whatever the hell its called ) tactics then the defense would be just as good .

But as we all know this chap will go to the tenth degree to obtain any and all advantage for his team , so as to get the 2 competition points .

Melbourne will never be spoken of in the same terms as the great Dragon teams of the golden era , or for that matter any other team who has claimed the Grand Final trophy because of their constant illegal play .

As good a coach as Bellamy is , he has forfeited the right to stand with the other great coaches of the game , regardless of what era they came from .

He and he alone is responsible for pulling rugby league down to the unsavory depths that it is now at where all teams to some degree or other must employ similar tackling styles to have any chance of beating them . And then of course they still find themselves behind the 8 ball as they have no Ref Smith on their team to help officiate the match .

One must ask when will it all end , when will the powers to be at NRL headquarters step in and finally take concrete steps to eradicate this blot on our game once and for all ?
 

ALSGI

Bench
Messages
3,046
I , as you and just about every league fan feels the same dragon_around , they are a pack of mongrels whom have been coached (?) that way for as long as Bellamy has been there .

The shame of it all is that there is absolutely no reason to go the lengths that he has . They are a tremendous attacking team and I am sure that if their defense was not reliant upon these vicious wrestling- Kwai Kwon Doe ( or whatever the hell its called ) tactics then the defense would be just as good .

But as we all know this chap will go to the tenth degree to obtain any and all advantage for his team , so as to get the 2 competition points .

Melbourne will never be spoken of in the same terms as the great Dragon teams of the golden era , or for that matter any other team who has claimed the Grand Final trophy because of their constant illegal play .

As good a coach as Bellamy is , he has forfeited the right to stand with the other great coaches of the game , regardless of what era they came from .

He and he alone is responsible for pulling rugby league down to the unsavory depths that it is now at where all teams to some degree or other must employ similar tackling styles to have any chance of beating them . And then of course they still find themselves behind the 8 ball as they have no Ref Smith on their team to help officiate the match .

One must ask when will it all end , when will the powers to be at NRL headquarters step in and finally take concrete steps to eradicate this blot on our game once and for all ?
Well said Gareth67.

It’s a giant blot on the game.

I think we all accept evolution of our great game for good or bad but when it’s clearly detrimental to the game (and players) we also expect the NRL to stop it which is my main beef.

It’s especially frustrating when the Storm or media gloat about their wrestling/martial arts coaching regime.

What has the NRL done about it? Bought a ring for Mrs Smith.

I still can’t get past Friz getting suspended for the innocuous touch on the referee while all this shit was going on with Storm and gradually spreading to the rest of the comp trying to keep up with them.
 

Gareth67

First Grade
Messages
7,218
Well said Gareth67.

It’s a giant blot on the game.

I think we all accept evolution of our great game for good or bad but when it’s clearly detrimental to the game (and players) we also expect the NRL to stop it which is my main beef.

It’s especially frustrating when the Storm or media gloat about their wrestling/martial arts coaching regime.

What has the NRL done about it? Bought a ring for Mrs Smith.

I still can’t get past Friz getting suspended for the innocuous touch on the referee while all this shit was going on with Storm and gradually spreading to the rest of the comp trying to keep up with them.

A blot on the game is surely what it is ALSGI . After I had finished writing that post the obvious answer to the question occurred to me .


When he is no long coaching the Storm . If the media rumors are indeed correct and he will be at the Broncos in season 2022 then hopefully the cancer would have run its course .

Which then makes me wonder if he will have any input into the Broncs style of play ? :thinking:
 

Bayside Dragon

Juniors
Messages
62
A blot on the game is surely what it is ALSGI . After I had finished writing that post the obvious answer to the question occurred to me .


When he is no long coaching the Storm . If the media rumors are indeed correct and he will be at the Broncos in season 2022 then hopefully the cancer would have run its course .

Which then makes me wonder if he will have any input into the Broncs style of play ? :thinking:
 

Bayside Dragon

Juniors
Messages
62
Makes you wonder if there could ever be some type of ruling whereby if a player has to exit the match due to illegal, grubby play and has to spend time out the game as a result of a said injury - then the offending player has to spend equal time on the sideline also. The injured player would probably have to be assessed by a independent medical team I guess, as it would be rorted - same as players being tapped on the head claiming a crusher tackle to claim the manditory penalty.
 

ALSGI

Bench
Messages
3,046
Makes you wonder if there could ever be some type of ruling whereby if a player has to exit the match due to illegal, grubby play and has to spend time out the game as a result of a said injury - then the offending player has to spend equal time on the sideline also. The injured player would probably have to be assessed by a independent medical team I guess, as it would be rorted - same as players being tapped on the head claiming a crusher tackle to claim the manditory penalty.
Or better still, repeated offences by the same club/player have competition points deducted.

That would clean it up fairly quickly.
 

Gareth67

First Grade
Messages
7,218
Or better still, repeated offences by the same club/player have competition points deducted.

That would clean it up fairly quickly.

Yes I have had similar thoughts myself Bayside . That to me would be the most potent penalty , especially for the serious injuries sustained in illegal play .

I myself however would prefer to have the Judiciary to completely erased this carry over points system and replaced it with a ‘ black and white ‘ straight forward one .

One whereby the punishment fits the crime , the worse the occurrence the harsher the penalty . In short revert back to the system which was I place back in the ‘60 s . The players knew exactly where they stood if they were caught in any skulduggery .

As to those players acting as if they have been injured then yes I agreed that something also needs to be done about .
No team wishes to lose a final match due to someone faking an injury. Oddly enough I recall watching the World Cup soccer a number of years back where you had numerous players doing just that and they would usually get the penalty.

My other thought was - Well that’s one thing you will never see in rugby league. Ouch , how wrong I was !
 

ALSGI

Bench
Messages
3,046
Yes I have had similar thoughts myself Bayside . That to me would be the most potent penalty , especially for the serious injuries sustained in illegal play .

I myself however would prefer to have the Judiciary to completely erased this carry over points system and replaced it with a ‘ black and white ‘ straight forward one .

One whereby the punishment fits the crime , the worse the occurrence the harsher the penalty . In short revert back to the system which was I place back in the ‘60 s . The players knew exactly where they stood if they were caught in any skulduggery .

As to those players acting as if they have been injured then yes I agreed that something also needs to be done about .
No team wishes to lose a final match due to someone faking an injury. Oddly enough I recall watching the World Cup soccer a number of years back where you had numerous players doing just that and they would usually get the penalty.

My other thought was - Well that’s one thing you will never see in rugby league. Ouch , how wrong I was !
Totally agree mate....but can you stop calling me Bayside.:stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:
 

getsmarty

Referee
Messages
28,890
kingm-1gp_8073.jpg


JUDICIARY


As it happened: King banned for three; Thompson cops four
Author
Troy Whittaker NRL.com Reporter
Timestamp
Tue 29 Sep 2020, 10:20 PM

NRL.com is providing live coverage of tonight's judiciary hearings for Storm prop Max King and Bulldogs forward Luke Thompson.

Thompson has been banned for four matches after being found guilty of eye gouging, while King's copped a three-match ban for a "hip drop" tackle.

Refresh this page during the night for the latest updates.

10.16pm: The verdict is in: Ben Creagh announces that Max King has been hit with a 375 demerit penalty, meaning he will miss three matches.

King's only hope of playing again this season would be if the Storm lose their opening finals game against the Eels on Saturday, then win their next two en route to a grand final appearance.

10.12pm: After more than an hour of evidence, the panel are off to deliberate.

10.05pm: Ghabar submits that a 300 demerit (three matches) penalty would be a sufficient starting point. However, he asks for King to receive the usual 25 percent discount for entering an early guilty plea.

Judiciary chairman Geoff Bellew instructs the panel to apply the discount.

9.55pm: To back up his earlier point, Ghabar references St George Illawarra doctor Tom Carrigan's injury report which states Smith and Welch contributed to Lawrie bending backwards and his knee flexing.

Ghabar's other key argument is King landed on the ground before dropping onto Lawrie's leg, thereby minimising the impact. He also notes Lawrie was able to receive strapping treatment before returning to the field and playing the last 33 minutes.

9.43pm: King's lawyer Nick Ghabar counters that it "belies the facts" to say Lawrie had no momentum when his client became involved in the tackle. He claims wrestling was still ongoing.

He also argues that Brandon Smith and Christian Welch contributed to making the tackle more dangerous as they bended Lawrie back.

"The only reason [the bending] occurs, in my submission, is player Smith and player Welch were intimately involved in getting player Lawrie onto his back," he says.

Ghabar accepts King made an error in judgment but says he had no intent to injure. He agrees with McGrath that the force was only moderate.

9.35pm: Given King has already pleaded guilty to the hip drop, NRL counsel McGrath argues that a penalty in the vicinity of 400-500 demerit points (4-5 matches) would be sufficient.

9.31pm: McGrath again shows footage of Jamayne Taunoa-Brown's hip drop against the Sharks to demonstrate his belief that King's is worse than a grade two.

They key difference, he argues, is Taunoa-Brown was "competing to complete" a tackle that still had momentum. He says the same occurred in Tyrell Fuimaono's hip drop on Eels prop Junior Paulo, and despite all three examples being of "moderate force", King's was the most dangerous. He says King had "so many options" to safely complete the tackle including locking Lawrie's legs together.

9.22pm: McGrath says Blake Lawrie was "already effectively held" by Brandon Smith and Christian Welch when King comes in as the third defender, starting at Lawrie's waist. As the footage plays, McGrath argues King deliberately dropped to his right knee before swivelling his hips, shooting out his right leg and plunging his body-weight onto Lawrie's exposed leg.

He submits King was responsible for the gang tackle then collapsing as Lawrie is bent back awkwardly. "It's just with luck there's no serious injury," he says.

remote.axd

King placed on report for tackle on Lawrie


King placed on report for tackle on Lawrie

9.10pm: While he doesn't submit that King intended to injure Dragons prop Blake Lawrie, NRL counsel McGrath argues King's hip drop was far worse than a grade-two offence. He says the "degree of force, the high level of recklessness and the risk of injury" must be considered.

9.05pm: Several angles of King's "hip drop" tackle are shown before clips of recent grade-two offences by Warriors prop Jamayne Taunoa-Brown and Dragons second-rower Tyrell Fuimaono are played for comparison.

9pm: Max King's hearing has now started. The Storm forward is appearing on video link from the Sunshine Coast with football manager Frank Ponissi.

8.55pm: A disappointed Thompson briefly spoke after the hearing, saying it was never his intention to eye-gouge “or what they accused me of."

"I was just trying to win the tackle – take him to the ground. So I'm a bit confused, disappointed," he said.

Asked if he was concerned the verdict would damage his reputation, he said: "That's why it's upsetting, disappointing. But it is what it is so I’ll move on."

8.48pm: Bob Lindner announces that Thompson will serve a four-match suspension.

8.39pm: Ghabar is urging the panel to deem 200 demerit points sufficient. He references Raiders forward Hudson Young's eye gouging case late last season in which he received 800 demerit points.

He argues Young's offence was "four or five times more significant in terms of culpability". Young had also been suspended for the same charge earlier in 2019.

The panel will now deliberate again to decide the length of Thompson's suspension.

8.30pm: NRL counsel Peter McGrath is pushing for a penalty of 400 demerit points (a four-week ban). Nick Ghabar is now addressing the panel.


https://www.nrl.com/news/2020/09/29/judiciary-live-blog-luke-thompson-eye-gouge-max-king-hip-drop/
 
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