RTS Off to Rugby (according to NZ National Radio)

[Rich102]

Add to this the dismal performance of the Warriors. Where would kid want to go?

 

[jaseg]

No I think you’re confused here...

The precedent won’t be in ‘tearing up’ a contract.... remembering it won’t be the kid applying to the courts to have his contract made null and void.

The Warriors will be the ones taking the kid to court.

So the precedent will be whether the court decides to enforce the contract signed by the 15yr old.

It may seem like semantics... but there’s a HUGE difference as far as setting precedent.

You are right in that all the cases I ever studied were for financial institutions... but to me... this puts it in the kids favour even more... because by enforcing the contract your not talking about making a kid pay back money...

Your talking about forcing a kid to follow a career path that he agreed to start as a 15yr old.

So the core question the court will ask will be... is it it perfectly reasonable for a kid to change his mind on a career decision he made when he was 15.

you’d have to think yes.

I do however think that they should pay the money back that the Warriors invested in him.

Yawn... nope.

Contracts have the expectation of being enforceable. Voiding a current contract is setting precedent, not enforcing it (well technically it's setting precedent either way, given the relative lack of cases in the area - but one is following basic rules of contracts, the other more of a reach and thus less likely). The fact that the Warriors are the ones taking the action to court doesn't change the base level expectation of enforceability.

Regardless, Nanai surely isn't going to be at the Warriors... they won't want to keep a guy who doesn't want to be there - it's a matter of compensation at this point. And the Warriors are owed. Easy to point out the guy was 15, but he had plenty of support in making the decision, apparently wasn't rushed into it, and has benefited from it without seeing it through. It appears as though the Warriors made extra concessions for his benefit in that contract too.

It's a fixed term contract, hardly forcing the guy to stay in League (or at the Warriors) for the majority of his career if it was enforced. But I find it likely that the court would rule the contract is enforceable, which would then be followed by a negotiation between the three parties and a payout to the Warriors (I imagine on the basis of reimbursing any money/benefits he got, plus a release fee).

 

[shiznit]

Yawn... nope.

Contracts have the expectation of being enforceable. Voiding a current contract is setting precedent, not enforcing it (well technically it's setting precedent either way, given the relative lack of cases in the area - but one is following basic rules of contracts, the other more of a reach and thus less likely). The fact that the Warriors are the ones taking the action to court doesn't change the base level expectation of enforceability.

Regardless, Nanai surely isn't going to be at the Warriors... they won't want to keep a guy who doesn't want to be there - it's a matter of compensation at this point. And the Warriors are owed. Easy to point out the guy was 15, but he had plenty of support in making the decision, apparently wasn't rushed into it, and has benefited from it without seeing it through. It appears as though the Warriors made extra concessions for his benefit in that contract too.

It's a fixed term contract, hardly forcing the guy to stay in League (or at the Warriors) for the majority of his career if it was enforced. But I find it likely that the court would rule the contract is enforceable, which would then be followed by a negotiation between the three parties and a payout to the Warriors (I imagine on the basis of reimbursing any money/benefits he got, plus a release fee).

It’s been about 15 years since I covered contracts and I think it came up in Legal202 which was obviously pretty early on in the piece... and i certainly never went on to practice law... so I’m not going to pretend to be a legal expert.

but I don’t really get where your coming from...

I guess we will have to see how it plays out...

But as I said before... the fact the Warriors haven’t filed for an injunction says volumes about how confident they are about being able to enforce that contract.

 

[Iafeta]

Reportedly the NZR offered the Warriors a settlement earlier this week, which the Warriors refused. It appears headed for the mediation. If the NZR offered compensation, it says to me they know they've been caught with their hand in the cookie jar and have been rather unprofessional

 

[Iafeta]

Add to this the dismal performance of the Warriors. Where would kid want to go?

Can't argue that. But that doesn't change the law. The AB boys would be equally as aggrieved if Rieko Ioane ended up playing for the Giants in the NFL. Whilst the NZR is a big fish in a small pond in NZ, they absolute minnows compared to sports overseas such as NFL, which could conceivably do exactly the same as NZR have tried to do to the Warriors.

 

[ZEROMISSTACKLES]

Or not. Have you heard him say he doesn't have passion for the Warriors? That he wants to leave?
Don't believe all you read.

RTS is passionate about playing rugby league or even union. He's a passionate player. Is he a passionate Warrior? this thread, what we keep hearing isn't that of someone who has passion for the jersey. If you have passion for the Warriors like I/WE do, you'd stick with it through thick and thin. Just like Shaun Johnson, Simon Mannering. If those two asked Bellamy and the Storm for a contract, they would get it but no, they stay with us even when we look like crap, they stay with us. Why? because THATS passion for the jersey.

 

[Rich102]

The dispute between the Warriors and New Zealand Rugby over the services of highly rated teenager Etene Nanai-Seturo is headed for mediation.

The 18-year-old turned out for the All Black Sevens side in Sydney last weekend, despite being under contract with the NRL franchise.

His appearance for the national side raised the ire of Warriors CEO Cameron George, who accused NZR of "disrespectful" conduct in their handling of the matter.

Nanai-Seturo has been selected for the Sevens team again this weekend, and will play in front of a home crowd in Hamilton.

The Herald understands that NZR made an offer of a settlement earlier this week, but that was reportedly turned down by the NRL club.

The next step is going to be mediation, where both parties will argue their case while a professional mediator tries to facilitate a solution.

If that process is unsuccessful, then the final step would be deciding the matter in court.

Read more: NZR promise to resolve Etene Nanai-Seturo contract situation

Nanai-Seturo signed a five-year contract with the Warriors as a 15-year-old, and received money, airfares and other benefits as part of the deal, as well as time and resources invested in him.

But late last year, the Warriors received a letter from Nanai-Seturo — drafted by a lawyer — to inform the club he was "resigning" from his contract.

But a release has never been formally requested, and discussions between the parties had failed to reach a resolution, until NZR selected him in their sevens team for the Sydney tournament.

It's believed he has also committed to play for the Chiefs Super Rugby side, and lawyers representing the franchise are understood to have been acting on his behalf

There are differing legal interpretations of the situation, but it appears Nanai-Seturo's contract is legally binding, unless it can be proven that it was "harsh or onerous" or signed without the presence or consent of parents or guardians.

This is not believed to be the case.

The offer of a settlement this week by NZR would also appear to be an admission that they will need to take action to redress the current situation, regardless of the legal interpretation.

The Warriors have previously granted releases for players to switch codes, with All Black Ngani Laumape the most recent example, while others have included Glen Fisiiahi (Chiefs) and Sam Lousi (Hurricanes).

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/league/news/article.cfm?c_id=79&objectid=11987107

 

[Rich102]

RTS is passionate about playing rugby league or even union. He's a passionate player. Is he a passionate Warrior? this thread, what we keep hearing isn't that of someone who has passion for the jersey. If you have passion for the Warriors like I/WE do, you'd stick with it through thick and thin. Just like Shaun Johnson, Simon Mannering. If those two asked Bellamy and the Storm for a contract, they would get it but no, they stay with us even when we look like crap, they stay with us. Why? because THATS passion for the jersey.

Two different things here.

RTS has denied he wants to leave.

SJ and Mannering may have different reasons to stay besides passion. Mannering is probably too loyal for his own good and SJ knows he is on a very good thing with opportunities outside playing football available here.

 

[ZEROMISSTACKLES]

Two different things here.

RTS has denied he wants to leave.

SJ and Mannering may have different reasons to stay besides passion. Mannering is probably too loyal for his own good and SJ knows he is on a very good thing with opportunities outside playing football available here.

One thing is clear, there's a lot of concern around his commitment. We hear 'RTS maybe leaving' more than RTS speaking about any passion he has for the jersey. I never said RTS was up and leaving and Im happy he's staying but this thread is wondering what the hell is going on. I just questioned his passion.

Dictionary.com defines passion as "a strong affection or enthusiasm for an object, concept, etc:..."​

A STRONG affection or enthusiasm for one concept shouldn't even have you thinking 'oh f**k the Warriors, I wonder if the All Blacks are still keen on me', Im not saying thats what he's thinking but that's what it sounds like when you continue to hear what we're hearing. You can't blame anyone for questioning his passion and might I add - I did say theres nothing wrong with RTS NOT having any passion for the jersey because its a professional sport.

Loyalty comes with having passion. On the contrary - IF I was offered a better job or more money or both, I'd leave my organisation of 8 years tomorrow, a job I was once passionate about. Like I said before, Johnson and Mannering have options to go elsewhere and thats one of many differences between them and me, I don't have offers/options. As marquee players, Im assuming they can get the same money or more with a better team. I've heard Johnson say 'Ive always wanted to play for the Warriors since I was young' and that underlines his passion to be a Warrior. The kids living his dream (maybe nightmare now).

Point taken about Mannerings other reasons for staying here.

 

[ozbash]

I think it' more pa$$ion these days..

Reading these comments and the great SBW immediately springs to mind.

Contracts arnt worth the paper they'e written on.. just ask Tui Lolohea..

 

[Matua]

Can't argue that. But that doesn't change the law. The AB boys would be equally as aggrieved if Rieko Ioane ended up playing for the Giants in the NFL. Whilst the NZR is a big fish in a small pond in NZ, they absolute minnows compared to sports overseas such as NFL, which could conceivably do exactly the same as NZR have tried to do to the Warriors.

As far as I know NZR doesn't sign contracts with 15 year olds.

Also, I think you're rubbing it on a bit strong with 'what NZR is trying to do to the Warriors' - the kid wants to play rugby and NZR are negotiating for his release, and the Warriors didn't accept the first offer, if a counter offer meets their standards they should just take it rather than have this carry on. Eventually, they'll lose support because the guy in contact is young kid not a seasoned pro.

Also, sounds like the kid thought you could just resign like with any other employment contract, which he can't do.

On to RTS, I hope he displays some actual captaincy skills this year. He really doesn't seem captaincy material so hopefully he spent the off season picking up tips on good captaincy.

 

[Iafeta]

As far as I know NZR doesn't sign contracts with 15 year olds.

Also, I think you're rubbing it on a bit strong with 'what NZR is trying to do to the Warriors' - the kid wants to play rugby and NZR are negotiating for his release, and the Warriors didn't accept the first offer, if a counter offer meets their standards they should just take it rather than have this carry on. Eventually, they'll lose support because the guy in contact is young kid not a seasoned pro.

Also, sounds like the kid thought you could just resign like with any other employment contract, which he can't do.

On to RTS, I hope he displays some actual captaincy skills this year. He really doesn't seem captaincy material so hopefully he spent the off season picking up tips on good captaincy.

They tried negotiating his release after he was selected for their sevens team. I'd have to think the NZR is either incompetent or niave to believe Nanai was not under some form of contract. It wouldn't be that hard for them to know this. My belief is they are so self absorbed in their NZ self righteousness to do as they please that they didn't care. It's only when they've been caught with their hand in the cookie jar that they've put their hands into their pocket.

I also find it interesting, noting this week they put an offer to the Warriors (why would you put an offer to the club if you believe the Warriors have no legal contract), that without that offer receiving acceptance (and therefore you could easily infer they still believe his contract needs to be bought out), that he is still in their sevens team this weekend. He is, and they know this, still legally bound to the Warriors but I personally believe that they always being the dominant dog in the NZ sports arena figure who cares - we are the NZR and that's life.

 

[ZEROMISSTACKLES]

I think it' more pa$$ion these days..

Yeah totally agree. A few years back when Shaun was hot property, he re-signed with us. Back then when everyone wanted him, I reckon he couldve got more or the same amount of $$ at another club. While dollars is a huge part of it, Shaun stuck to what he said about always wanting to be a Warrior.

That passion he has may run its course and whilst Im a fan of SJ, lately Ive wondered if hes the right fit for us.

 

[SpaceMonkey]

Contracts arnt worth the paper they'e written on..

I think people commonly misunderstand what contracts are for. There’s this idea that contract guarantees a player will be at a club for a set period of time. It doesn’t. All it does it outlines what a player will be paid over a certain period provide the player and the club meet agreed obligations, and stipulates the conditions that need to be met if the player or club decide to end the agreement early.

 

[Penrose Warrior]

I think people commonly misunderstand what contracts are for. There’s this idea that contract guarantees a player will be at a club for a set period of time. It doesn’t. All it does it outlines what a player will be paid over a certain period provide the player and the club meet agreed obligations, and stipulates the conditions that need to be met if the player or club decide to end the agreement early.

Yeah, that's right. And I'm sure none of the conditions of Nanai's contract to end the agreement early are anything like 'I feel like playing Sevens now, the Warriors are no good'.

NZR have gone about this horribly wrong. As someone rightly said, they'd be up in arms if the NFL or another bigger fish did the same, but because they are the big swinging dick of NZ sport they seem to feel they can operate outside the jurisdictions of a contract.

We don't need more poorly-advised young footballers.

 

[Penrose Warrior]

Since when can you 'resign' from a contract? Smells like real amateur hour stuff. Just be open and honest, the Warriors have shown in the past they're OK with doing business with guys who don't want to be there and want out (they're used to it now).

 

[Big Marn]

Judging by the video doing the rounds the last 24 hours, looks like another guy that cant pass... (joke)

 

[Iafeta]

Since when can you 'resign' from a contract? Smells like real amateur hour stuff. Just be open and honest, the Warriors have shown in the past they're OK with doing business with guys who don't want to be there and want out (they're used to it now).

You can't. You can request a release.

Very similar to the talk you hear on the news in the EPL. Player X has handed in his transfer request. If he has time left on his contract, the club can either deny it, or, agree on the provision they agree on a payment from another club. You can't just waltz from West Ham to Man City by resigning.

Sometimes super sporting talents can be super dumb. But surely with the support he's surrounded with he isn't that dumb.

 

[SpaceMonkey]

It’s like breaking a lease. You signal your intentions to do so, and request the agreed processes for an early exit to be put in place (along with additional justifications for breaking contract if you think the other party hasn’t met their obligations). It’s not as simple as “over this now, hers a couple of weeks notice, see ya”

 

[JJ]

RTS is passionate about playing rugby league or even union. He's a passionate player. Is he a passionate Warrior? this thread, what we keep hearing isn't that of someone who has passion for the jersey. If you have passion for the Warriors like I/WE do, you'd stick with it through thick and thin. Just like Shaun Johnson, Simon Mannering. If those two asked Bellamy and the Storm for a contract, they would get it but no, they stay with us even when we look like crap, they stay with us. Why? because THATS passion for the jersey.

Yeah... nah... Mannering is out of loyalty, and Johnson money would be my guess

The passion drivel is for us to lap up - I am sure they don't want to be shit, but collectively they have been since Cleary left (or since we've had appalling coaches)

On Bellamy, I see he and his team have addressed Kasiano's passion for pies... I doubt the Storm needs to run out weekly, "best pre-season ever", "hardest we've ever trained" shit - because they are professionals top to bottom