Rugby League in NZ schools

[Karl]

Sounds like the NZRL needs to get its shit together instead of finding new ways to blame Rugby conspiracies for their own failings.

 

[Te Kaha]

Sounds like the NZRL needs to get its shit together instead of finding new ways to blame Rugby conspiracies for their own failings.

its no different to the ARU in Aussie.. there is only so much they can do with the limited resources they have available. The Sparc review got rid of a lot of the crap and gave the code a path forward.. its already moving along that path.

 

[taipan]

A three year old "revue" is out of date in a discussion on the supposed historic injustices that the NZRU was to have perpetrated on League in NZ???? are you kidding????

So you are suggesting the NZRL has currently adopted the same casual attitude /policy as it did 3 years ago.
The fact remains there is currently ,today, ATM,this anti rl tradition,and is still prevalent in schools in that country.The influence is by whom? No doubt ru minded people within the school system.

It is the very same crap,that I put up with attending a private ru playing school in sydney.
To put it bluntly: it''s sporting discrimination.
In effect the old school tie brigade,with no doubt influence at the top levels of the code,ensure traditions are maintained.

 

[Manurewa_Marlins]

Here's a little story, from personal experiences.

I went to a reputable state school in Auckland, the most reputable in the country to be exact. Without naming its name, you probably know the school I'm talking about. Huge history with most sports including football, cricket, athletics, basketball and hockey, but the feather in its cap is without question Rugby Union.

One year, we decided to start a Rugby League team to compete in the Auckland SS competition. At the time, it was a tiny comp. There was our school, Waitakere, Mt. Albert Grammar and I think St. Peters. We competed in the Under-85kg league, and were actually very good.

A large number of our players also played Rugby Union for the school, but since the games were played on wednesdays and Union on saturdays, they could do both. We trained Tuesdays and Thursdays, with many of those players either doubling up on trainings or not training with us at all. No biggie, we were young and fit.

Anyways, this is a perfect example of the power Union has, perhaps not as a body, but as a sport and culture in a school like mine.

a) Those rugby players were pulled midseason by the Physical Education department because of their commitments to rugby. Let me make this clear. They were non first15 players, a couple played seconds, but the majority came from Under85 rugby or Under 15s.

b) We recieved sponsorship from Nike (thanks to a connection within the team) because the school refused to provide us with a strip, training equipment or tracksuits (every "first" team in the school recieved team tracksuits). Because said sponsorship conflcited with the school's athletic equipment providers (particularly the first 11 and first 15's deal with Adidas) the pin was pulled very quickly. We ended up playing in school socks, mixmatched shorts and training tshirts from the 3rd grade rugby team.

It was a f**king joke - we just wanted to play football with our mates. We ended up beating Waitakere in the final that year too!

 

[East Coast Tiger]

No, no, no, no. It was all your imagination.


PS: Vichy loved RL.

 

[Te Kaha]

So you are suggesting the NZRL has currently adopted the same casual attitude /policy as it did 3 years ago.
The fact remains there is currently ,today, ATM,this anti rl tradition,and is still prevalent in schools in that country.The influence is by whom? No doubt ru minded people within the school system.

What casual attitude / policy are you gibbering about???? The report CLEARLY states there was no support from within the NZRL for setting up and sustaining competitions... SINCE that report was published the NZRL has changed this and is investing in school comps which is why there are now schoold comps springing up.

It is the very same crap,that I put up with attending a private ru playing school in sydney.
To put it bluntly: it''s sporting discrimination.
In effect the old school tie brigade,with no doubt influence at the top levels of the code,ensure traditions are maintained.

That says more about you than any actual evidence... So tell me then.. if this discrimination was as wide spreed as you claim... that since the NZRL changed its policies comps are now appearing? has this "discrimination" suddenly stopped?

 

[Te Kaha]

Here's a little story, from personal experiences.

I went to a reputable state school in Auckland, the most reputable in the country to be exact. Without naming its name, you probably know the school I'm talking about. Huge history with most sports including football, cricket, athletics, basketball and hockey, but the feather in its cap is without question Rugby Union.

One year, we decided to start a Rugby League team to compete in the Auckland SS competition. At the time, it was a tiny comp. There was our school, Waitakere, Mt. Albert Grammar and I think St. Peters. We competed in the Under-85kg league, and were actually very good.

A large number of our players also played Rugby Union for the school, but since the games were played on wednesdays and Union on saturdays, they could do both. We trained Tuesdays and Thursdays, with many of those players either doubling up on trainings or not training with us at all. No biggie, we were young and fit.

Anyways, this is a perfect example of the power Union has, perhaps not as a body, but as a sport and culture in a school like mine.

a) Those rugby players were pulled midseason by the Physical Education department because of their commitments to rugby. Let me make this clear. They were non first15 players, a couple played seconds, but the majority came from Under85 rugby or Under 15s.

b) We recieved sponsorship from Nike (thanks to a connection within the team) because the school refused to provide us with a strip, training equipment or tracksuits (every "first" team in the school recieved team tracksuits). Because said sponsorship conflcited with the school's athletic equipment providers (particularly the first 11 and first 15's deal with Adidas) the pin was pulled very quickly. We ended up playing in school socks, mixmatched shorts and training tshirts from the 3rd grade rugby team.

It was a f**king joke - we just wanted to play football with our mates. We ended up beating Waitakere in the final that year too!

Did you and/or your parrents know, before applying to attend this school and signing its charter, that it had a "Huge history with most sports including football, cricket, athletics, basketball and hockey, but the feather in its cap is without question Rugby Union" and therefore how much emphasis it placed on those teams?

 

[docbrown]

Here's a little story, from personal experiences.

I went to a reputable state school in Auckland, the most reputable in the country to be exact. Without naming its name, you probably know the school I'm talking about. Huge history with most sports including football, cricket, athletics, basketball and hockey, but the feather in its cap is without question Rugby Union.

One year, we decided to start a Rugby League team to compete in the Auckland SS competition. At the time, it was a tiny comp. There was our school, Waitakere, Mt. Albert Grammar and I think St. Peters. We competed in the Under-85kg league, and were actually very good.

A large number of our players also played Rugby Union for the school, but since the games were played on wednesdays and Union on saturdays, they could do both. We trained Tuesdays and Thursdays, with many of those players either doubling up on trainings or not training with us at all. No biggie, we were young and fit.

Anyways, this is a perfect example of the power Union has, perhaps not as a body, but as a sport and culture in a school like mine.

a) Those rugby players were pulled midseason by the Physical Education department because of their commitments to rugby. Let me make this clear. They were non first15 players, a couple played seconds, but the majority came from Under85 rugby or Under 15s.

b) We recieved sponsorship from Nike (thanks to a connection within the team) because the school refused to provide us with a strip, training equipment or tracksuits (every "first" team in the school recieved team tracksuits). Because said sponsorship conflcited with the school's athletic equipment providers (particularly the first 11 and first 15's deal with Adidas) the pin was pulled very quickly. We ended up playing in school socks, mixmatched shorts and training tshirts from the 3rd grade rugby team.

It was a f**king joke - we just wanted to play football with our mates. We ended up beating Waitakere in the final that year too!

It will be interesting to see how the Union fans try to justify all this...

 

[East Coast Tiger]

Yeah, it was his parents' fault for not knowing the school was run by union bigots.

Stupid people. They should have sent him to a NZ school where there was no prejudice against RL, like, um.... Wynnum State High.

 

[edabomb]

From my time at intermediate/high school in Wellington 10 years ago - it was always league during lunch, union on the weekend.

League has the ability to be played without a referee - which makes it great for the 10 - 14 year old crew (lets face, there are other things to do at lunch by the time you're 15). The problem really is that in Wellington there was one team for the entire school of 1000 - no age group or weight grades.

 

[Te Kaha]

It will be interesting to see how the Union fans try to justify all this...

The first part cant be justified, unless when they joined the school, they agreed to be bound by the school charter. which would have had to have stated that Rugby came first.

The cancelling of the sponosrship tho is a no brainer, no organisation can have competeting sponsorship, especially in this case where there were two codes sponsorship at risk. Although the school should have provided equipment.

And in my experience, and that of my boys, we attended normal run of the mill state schools.. no special sports programs othere than any normal school. They had first and second 15 in Rugby and no League team. The school couldnt afford to run both programs so we played Rugby for the schools and League for the local clubs. There was never any demand to not play league.. not once not ever.

 

[Karl]

My boys can't play Rugby Union at their current school.

Only AFL - "for historical reasons". It links into City Districts and Metropolitan North sports etc. The eldest also reps Met North for Discus. If I wanted to have them play Union at the School I would have to organise coaching, kit, etc etc. It would be easy to get the numbers for a team or 3, but getting the people needed to support and run it? Fergeddaboudit. The School wouldn't object, but they won't assist either. Its a State School. So the kids play Rugby for the club round the corner, soccer at lunchtime (the school banned "contact" sports in uniform but they seem to wreck a lot of shirts anyway) and usually League at the park because it's easier to manage with the rules and fewer players and its tougher than touch. They refuse to play touch football. Even Soccer is tougher than that, at least the way they play it.

How is this school not offering Union and offering no support for Union any different to another school not offering League? You'll have to take out the issue with Sponsorship Conflict, because that's a corporate return driven issue and nothing to do with either code.

 

[East Coast Tiger]

The difference is there is a demand for RL in NZ schools but the schools actively discourage or even prevent it.

If schools don't play union in Australia it's because no one wants to play that shit. I can guarantee that no sport will ever be excluded from a state school in Australia the way RL has been excluded in NZ. In fact the only sports that would be excluded in any way would be ones that are too dangerous.

 

[Karl]

The difference is there is a demand for RL in NZ schools but the schools actively discourage or even prevent it.

If schools don't play union in Australia it's because no one wants to play that shit. I can guarantee that no sport will ever be excluded from a state school in Australia the way RL has been excluded in NZ. In fact the only sports that would be excluded in any way would be ones that are too dangerous.

Perhaps you didn't read what I wrote. There is a lot of interest at my kids school for Union, just no parents who are able or willing to put in the huge commitment of time when there is a Junior Rugby Club around the corner the kids can go to. That kind of contradicts your assertion doesn't it? Reasons for things like this are rarely as simple as you would like to make out.

So what specifically do the schools in NZ do to EXCLUDE Rugby League?

And please limit your examples and links to where League is EXCLUDED, not just a failure to fund, run or organise a League comp in the school, because plenty of schools fail to run, fund and organise comps for Union and any number of other sports where a decision has been made on resource allocation and availability.

(That's why there are community based clubs for sports I suppose and the ability to try out directly for the rep compas like (in my area) City Districts, Met North etc.)

I wonder, if you looked at Schools by number, and did a survey across Australia of all Schools, how many would offer Only League, Only Union, or both (or neither). I bet that by number, far more schools would offer and play only League than only Union. Does that mean anything? May be not, but it'd be interesting to see where the numbers fall.

 

[Te Kaha]

The difference is there is a demand for RL in NZ schools but the schools actively discourage or even prevent it.

If schools don't play union in Australia it's because no one wants to play that shit. I can guarantee that no sport will ever be excluded from a state school in Australia the way RL has been excluded in NZ. In fact the only sports that would be excluded in any way would be ones that are too dangerous.

Says who? If there isnt enough of a demand why should schools include it. If htere is sufficent demand and can find the resources they should offer it... you are assuming there is the demand for it.

 

[East Coast Tiger]

Perhaps you didn't read what I wrote. There is a lot of interest at my kids school for Union, just no parents who are able or willing to put in the huge commitment of time when there is a Junior Rugby Club around the corner the kids can go to. That kind of contradicts your assertion doesn't it? Reasons for things like this are rarely as simple as you would like to make out.

So what specifically do the schools in NZ do to EXCLUDE Rugby League?

And please limit your examples and links to where League is EXCLUDED, not just a failure to fund, run or organise a League comp in the school, because plenty of schools fail to run, fund and organise comps for Union and any number of other sports where a decision has been made on resource allocation and availability.

(That's why there are community based clubs for sports I suppose and the ability to try out directly for the rep compas like (in my area) City Districts, Met North etc.)

I wonder, if you looked at Schools by number, and did a survey across Australia of all Schools, how many would offer Only League, Only Union, or both (or neither). I bet that by number, far more schools would offer and play only League than only Union. Does that mean anything? May be not, but it'd be interesting to see where the numbers fall.

You're an idiot. You don't know how schools work at all. Almost no schools OFFER sports of any kind. Most schools just put teams together if they are invited to compete in competitions or tournaments and this is usually driven by the sport and taken on by a teacher or parent.

But when there is a competition available and kids want to play and they are even willing to do the work themselves, as in this example, and the school does everything in its power to discourage and even prevent it from happening ít's pretty evident that there is an anti-league agenda. The stories that have come out of NZ over the years about the way RL is treated there aren't a series of myths. When Sam Stewart says he had to register under a different name to play RL because he couldn't let his school know he played RL for fear of the ramifications, that's not a lie. When people say they wanted to play RL and the school kept resources that already existed away from the RL players and then banned them when they found their own, that's not a normal response from a school. Where there's smoke there's fire and there's a shit load of smoke when it comes to the treatment of RL in NZ schools over many, many years.

 

[East Coast Tiger]

Says who? If there isnt enough of a demand why should schools include it. If htere is sufficent demand and can find the resources they should offer it... you are assuming there is the demand for it.

And when there is demand for RL the schools in NZ do absolutely nothing to enable it to happen and even ensure they don't get the resources they need, even if they already have these resources. This does not happen in Australian schools. Even if it means league and union teams sharing things like jerseys, that's what they do. For this to not happen in any state school anywhere is highly suspect.

 

[Te Kaha]

And when there is demand for RL the schools in NZ do absolutely nothing to enable it to happen and even ensure they don't get the resources they need, even if they already have these resources. This does not happen in Australian schools. Even if it means league and union teams sharing things like jerseys, that's what they do. For this to not happen in any state school anywhere is highly suspect.

Bullshit... you are making a gross generallisation... There are some schools.. private schools can do this as they write there own charters and those who have borders especially.. but public schoolls arent allowed to do it and there is no way they can do it... they cant ban any kid from playing any sport or joining any club outside of school hours.

 

[taipan]

What casual attitude / policy are you gibbering about???? The report CLEARLY states there was no support from within the NZRL for setting up and sustaining competitions... SINCE that report was published the NZRL has changed this and is investing in school comps which is why there are now schoold comps springing up.



That says more about you than any actual evidence... So tell me then.. if this discrimination was as wide spreed as you claim... that since the NZRL changed its policies comps are now appearing? has this "discrimination" suddenly stopped?

It is painfully obvious,if the NZRL provided no support ATT,they were not doing their job.It aint hard.


Tell me dear sir,have the GPS and Associated schools In Sydney changed their tune.....waiting....sniffiing....scratching..........So it is hardly about me FFS.

So we are led to believe that everything in Kiwi land is rosy,that all schools make time available to all students who wish to try rugby league .If that is the case bravo flipping oh.If not why not?

I am glad you brought discrimination up.Because in a little ole country called France ,as soon as the govt recognised the code officially,provided grants to the code as they did ru,rl in schools grew.
What an amazing coincidence.
Its called freedom of choice,what a marvellous concept.

 

[Te Kaha]

It is painfully obvious,if the NZRL provided no support ATT,they were not doing their job.It aint hard.

Not according to quite a few on here its not.. its apparently the NZRU thats the sole cause.. when clearly its not.

How the hell should i know.. this thread is about schools in NZ.. what do the Sydney GPS schools have to do with that?

What a load of bollox... if there is suffecient demand and support/funding then yes they do.. if one of those two is missing then no they shouldnt have to.. just like any other school activity.

News flash.. there are no govt sports grants in NZ. Sparc fund the governing bodies who fund the junior programs. The govt funds the schools budget and its upto the schools board of trustees what they spend that on... if there is suffecient demand thats League.