Rumoured and Confirmed signings - Part 4

[TheFrog]

I think this week is the right time to blood brian too he looks more like mansour than mansour does

Not in the 30 man squad. They could put him in but that closes options for later.

 

[franklin2323]

what rumour?

That this is his last year with us

 

[mxlegend99]

This culture of discarding players so easily is really bad for a teams culture in my view. Bad for recruitment too.

Having no money left in the cap is bad for recruitment and overspending on busted players is worse for retention.

Our cap has been f**ked by Gould. We constantly need to offload rep players on big money to remain cap compliant yet somehow Gould gets praised for that.

Yay. Gould kept a few fringe first graders and it only came at the expense of Moylan, Cartwright, Latu, Rein etc.

Oh look Gould managed to upgrase those few players and we only had to offload Peachey, Merrin, CHN, Crichton etc. Ontop of Wallace and Browne retiring.

Its literally a squad getting weaker every year and only staying under the cap by getting rid of rep players. Some people are just now seeing this. But the cap was in a downward spiral back in 2015/2016 when we went out paying overs to get Trent Merrin. Then decided our juniors aren't good enough to replace Jamal Idris . Lets pay $400k+ for a shitty overrated centre instead signing Peta Hiku. Thats $1m cap gone. Then came all the huge upgrades to Moylan, Carty etc. Followed by lets outbid everyone to get James Tamou and upgrade everyone else again.

We threw money around like crazy and still do. To keep under the cap we need to offload guys good enough to be wanted. It's a cycle that has gotten worse every year and I see the turning point as being the Trent Merrin signing. Prior to that we didnt get into bidding wars for players. Our recruitment was incredible.. targetting guys with lots to offer for very little cap space.

Jamie Soward. Peter Wallace. Jamal Idris. Dean Whare. James Segeyaro etc. All guys we got with no competition to sign. For some reason we got it in our head we needed to sign Merrin and Tamou and any amount of money was worth it. And that attitude leaked through to keeping everyone also.

Gould has brought the club straight back to the shape it was in cap wise before we got here. Ivan is now going to need to go through a mini rebuild to fix it. We cant do so without offloading guys we love because that's where our money is spent.

 

[mxlegend99]

As it currently stands you are probably right but our lack of size, lack of pace, lack of tries is not a recent phenomena. We got away with having a fairly average back line for the past three years or so because of other positives in the side.

We resigned Josh Mansour on sentiment and the fact he had been so loyal to us over his previous two contracts. The day his resigning was announced at Penrith Park the masses were on there feet with joy to have Josh for another three seasons but alas it is coming back to bite us on the arse.

It is very much a case of damned if you do and damned if you don’t. For example Gould have have decided not to resign Mansour and go after someone like say Blake Ferguson. I can tell you the majority of our fans would have been up in arms if such a thing had occurred.

Sometimes you just cannot win and fans are hard task masters and unforgiving.

Yet when Gould first arrived he had no issue letting Gordon leave and pushing Lewis, Coote, Grant etc. Out the door because he knew it had to happen. Fans loved these guys and Gus could look beyond that at the bigger picture and what our cap and roster needed.

As much as the fans love these players. Guys who were more loved have been pushed out and the fans got upset but ultimately get over it.

Gould is now more emotionally attached to these guys than anyone and it makes him terrible at his job. We need him to be ruthless. No one can question his love of this team or our players. Its just a terrible quality to have in his position.

 

[Black Magik]

What’s Segs doing these days?

 

[martielang]

Crazy talk IMO. He was fantastic prior to his injury last year and is down on confidence.

He can't be on high $$$. Number of players we should think about releasing before him.

Agree 100%. The blokes a month coming back from a major season ending injury, we are seeing him at 50% with zero confidence. Some have Very short memories.

 

[martielang]

People complain about depth but then want to get rid of guys who would be ideal for depth purposes & not on a huge amount - whare, Katoa/Egan, Cartwright etc.

I think people are currently overreacting. We’ve had a slow start but it happens. To completely overhaul the squad based on the first 6 - 8 weeks of the season would be as brain dead as sacking a coach 4 weeks out from the end of a season. We need to back the squad we currently have (with some tweaks) we are too deep down that rabbit hole.

In regards to Mansour, he’s struggling but I think we need to take a more holistic view of what he brings to the club. The same can probably be said for N Cleary as well.

 

[mxlegend99]

People complain about depth but then want to get rid of guys who would be ideal for depth purposes & not on a huge amount - whare, Katoa/Egan, Cartwright etc.

Why do you think Whare, Egan and Katoa are not on big money?

Egan before his debut was already supposedly on ~$200k having fought off other clubs to keep him. Whare didnt sign a 5 year contract for minimum wage. Katoa is signed as our NRL hooker.

None of our roster get paid the minimum. Not even guys who never get picked.

Gus doesnt believe in underpaying players... he looks after them. If these guys are on reserve grade style contracts then we desperately need to wipe out Cleary, RCG, Tamou, JFH and Kikau. Because they must all be $1m+ players for our depth to be this bad.

IMO our entire top 15 or so are all overpaid. actually our entire top 30... but getting rid of a Cartwright wont free up space for someone better. Edwards, Whare, Katoa etc. Could be replaced with equal players for less money or better players for similar money.

Obviously we dont know exact figures for anyone. But the constant players going out the door without replacement tell us all we need to know about how the cap is managed as a whole

 

[Panfa]

Its a no for me for segs you dont go back to your rubbish need to move forward much prefer a brailey brother

 

[Kilkenny]

Yet when Gould first arrived he had no issue letting Gordon leave and pushing Lewis, Coote, Grant etc. Out the door because he knew it had to happen. .

Your assertion about Gordon is not correct. We tried all we could to retain him.

He chose to leave for the Sharks on less money but with the security of a three year deal.

Our offer was a two year deal on better money than the Sharks were offering.

 

[murraymob]

What’s Segs doing these days?

played for newtown in reserves against us today .Average at best

 

[Whino]

What’s Segs doing these days?

I am sure I read Ava Seumanufagai has left for Leeds recently creating a space for Seggy to be in the Sharks top 30.
With the younger Brailey recently extending I not sure why they need 3 hookers though.

 

[Aliceinwonderland]

People complain about depth but then want to get rid of guys who would be ideal for depth purposes & not on a huge amount - whare, Katoa/Egan, Cartwright etc.

I think people are currently overreacting. We’ve had a slow start but it happens. To completely overhaul the squad based on the first 6 - 8 weeks of the season would be as brain dead as sacking a coach 4 weeks out from the end of a season. We need to back the squad we currently have (with some tweaks) we are too deep down that rabbit hole.

In regards to Mansour, he’s struggling but I think we need to take a more holistic view of what he brings to the club. The same can probably be said for N Cleary as well.

I agree.

I've waited till now to enter any type of conversation about the game. I thought attack wise we looked so much better than in previous weeks.

I'd like to see Edwards be slowly re-entered via the wing now he has gained some confidence.

Egan had a real good game along with Grant, Tamou and many others.

We all know Cronulla especially at the home ground will niggle, and be pretty horrible. Hence DWZ blow up. To be honest that penalty could have gone either way.

I believe things will continue to improve.

Trophys are not one in either April or May.

 

[unKwn]

Parra will be tempted to throw dollars at Gutherson after this game, doubt we get him

 

[Panfa]

Whos knows if we were even looking at gutherson in the 1st place 1 thing is for sure with cleary by seasons end we will let go off about 8 players and replace them with 12 new ones thats how he rolls.

 

[kinghippo]

Whos knows if we were even looking at gutherson in the 1st place 1 thing is for sure with cleary by seasons end we will let go off about 8 players and replace them with 12 new ones thats how he rolls.

I hope so, I think we have suffered as a team since it was decided we had a squad to win the comp.
Recruitment stagnated and we thought we could let all the juniors go because we had our team.
We need to be in the market and players should know that if their form is not up to scratch they will be dropped.

 

[Abacus]

I'm starting to think that inability to bring in "better" players is to do with a shortage in the player market. I just had a look at who is off contract at the end of 2019 - there aren't many at all that you think will improve the team.

Clubs in general seem to prefer to lock players up longer term and extend them before they're on the market. Typically, the longer the contract the lower the annual salary (so 4 years @ $600k rather than 3 years @ $700k for example). This gives the clubs the power to develop their strongest squad possible before having to strategically release players based on cap compliance and the player's likely impact on team performance.

Player managers would like this approach as it leads to a shortage in player supply so increases demand for (almost) any NRL-experienced players resulting in a bidding war and resulting windfall for the player and manager.

I think we have 8 places to fill for the 2020 roster. I see Blake, Cleary, JFH, Kikau, RCG (all longer term) & Tamou (2020 only) being on decent coin e.g. >$600k p.a. I'm assuming Maloney to UK for 2020. Looks like we have about 9 guys signed that can play in the middle - Tamou, RCG, JFH, Martin, Sele, Leota, Ellis, Hetherington, Lui Toso.

We're slow in the outside backs, thin in the second row and preferably we'd secure an established FB or hooker (not sure we can achieve both).

Interested to hear people's thoughts on who the club targets for 2020 there just doesn't seem to be much quality available.

 

[franklin2323]

I'm starting to think that inability to bring in "better" players is to do with a shortage in the player market. I just had a look at who is off contract at the end of 2019 - there aren't many at all that you think will improve the team.

Clubs in general seem to prefer to lock players up longer term and extend them before they're on the market. Typically, the longer the contract the lower the annual salary (so 4 years @ $600k rather than 3 years @ $700k for example). This gives the clubs the power to develop their strongest squad possible before having to strategically release players based on cap compliance and the player's likely impact on team performance.

Player managers would like this approach as it leads to a shortage in player supply so increases demand for (almost) any NRL-experienced players resulting in a bidding war and resulting windfall for the player and manager.

I think we have 8 places to fill for the 2020 roster. I see Blake, Cleary, JFH, Kikau, RCG (all longer term) & Tamou (2020 only) being on decent coin e.g. >$600k p.a. I'm assuming Maloney to UK for 2020. Looks like we have about 9 guys signed that can play in the middle - Tamou, RCG, JFH, Martin, Sele, Leota, Ellis, Hetherington, Lui Toso.

We're slow in the outside backs, thin in the second row and preferably we'd secure an established FB or hooker (not sure we can achieve both).

Interested to hear people's thoughts on who the club targets for 2020 there just doesn't seem to be much quality available.

There is a few younger guys carving up. Clubs will upgrade them and push other out so I wouldn't pay attention to who is off contract. You want to have funds for when an unexpected player pops up

For me we need either a ball playing FB or hooker and speed out wide

 

[kinghippo]

Your right Abacus. The market is weak, especially in the backs.
Development is more crucial than ever and I think we had the inside running with the likes of Burns, sivo even the Jennings boys but we mismanaged it. Someone like Gillon Mosby could be a good fit for the moment or a young NZ league / rugby recruit who can’t get in the team.
Gutherson and lattrell Mitchell are obviously the big name players off contact and a few teams are having success in England but I think what we need to replenish our reserve grade with a few key signings based on potential.
Getting in early and developing some kids that have natural talent.
Brisbane always has an amazing bunch of kids coming through and like us they can’t keep them all, plays like Haas, Fifita, Staggs are getting time at the moment but I guarantee they have another 5 we haven’t heard of yet with just as much potential.

 

[franklin2323]

Your right Abacus. The market is weak, especially in the backs.
Development is more crucial than ever and I think we had the inside running with the likes of Burns, sivo even the Jennings boys but we mismanaged it. Someone like Gillon Mosby could be a good fit for the moment or a young NZ league / rugby recruit who can’t get in the team.
Gutherson and lattrell Mitchell are obviously the big name players off contact and a few teams are having success in England but I think what we need to replenish our reserve grade with a few key signings based on potential.
Getting in early and developing some kids that have natural talent.
Brisbane always has an amazing bunch of kids coming through and like us they can’t keep them all, plays like Haas, Fifita, Staggs are getting time at the moment but I guarantee they have another 5 we haven’t heard of yet with just as much potential.

We need guys to fill the void until Flegg guys come through. There is some guys in there that fill holes we have and will get a shot at some stage... In the 3 years or so until then though