Rumoured and Confirmed signings - Part 4

[herbert henry1908]

If Gus is really employing a strategy of “I can just get rid of them in their last year” , that’s going to come back and bite us on the bum.

Player managers are going to get wind of it, and will negotiate contracts accordingly.

I’m not sure he’s doing it though.

 

[franklin2323]

If Gus is really employing a strategy of “I can just get rid of them in their last year” , that’s going to come back and bite us on the bum.

Player managers are going to get wind of it, and will negotiate contracts accordingly.

I’m not sure he’s doing it though.

I doubt he is. Just the reality is by the end of this WC Whare will be up to 20 tests. Played finals games so if he is running around in NSW Cup the ESL will come calling.

For Gus' side using those figures he locked in an experienced at one stage close to the best for $1.5m. For Whare given his injuries it makes it all secure I guess time will tell if it was wise or not

 

[franklin2323]

Just like others have said there’s no way for us to know the exact dollar value.

People are acting like a 5 year deal for a guy coming back from 2 season ending injuries is normal.

If he gets another ACL injury we won’t be able to move him anywhere.

Gus is a dinosaur but even in the 90's players weren't given big deals if they were injury prone. So I have no doubt it is a decent deal for us cap wise

 

[OldPanther]

Gus is a dinosaur but even in the 90's players weren't given big deals if they were injury prone. So I have no doubt it is a decent deal for us cap wise

The issue is not the $$$, it's the length that people are concerned with.

 

[herbert henry1908]

I doubt he is. Just the reality is by the end of this WC Whare will be up to 20 tests. Played finals games so if he is running around in NSW Cup the ESL will come calling.

For Gus' side using those figures he locked in an experienced at one stage close to the best for $1.5m. For Whare given his injuries it makes it all secure I guess time will tell if it was wise or not

Having said that, the list of guys who haven’t seen out their contracts with us in the last 4 years is long.

Obviously varying reasons for them leaving, but it’s still quite interesting.

Idris
Taylor
Seg
Grant
Naiqama
Soward
Api
George Jennings
Hiku
Grevshmul
TMM
Moylan
Rein

As I say, not all the same reasons, but that seems like a lot of guys not seeing out their contracts in just a 4 year period.

 

[herbert henry1908]

Gus is a dinosaur but even in the 90's players weren't given big deals if they were injury prone. So I have no doubt it is a decent deal for us cap wise

I don’t even necessarily see it as about the money, it’s more a flexibility thing. I just don’t see why anyone would’ve chased him at 31 when a three year deal would’ve been up.

 

[TheFrog]

Idris
Taylor
Seg
Grant
Naiqama
Soward
Api
George Jennings
Hiku
Grevshmul
TMM
Moylan
Rein

Out of all of them, only Taylor, Koroisau and maybe TMM have been what you'd call decent signings for their new clubs. Naiqama is barely serviceable at a cellar-dwelling club. The rest you wouldn't feed really, and obviously Moylan and Rein have yet to play a game elsewhere.

 

[herbert henry1908]

Out of all of them, only Taylor, Koroisau and maybe TMM have been what you'd call decent signings for their new clubs. Naiqama is barely serviceable at a cellar-dwelling club. The rest you wouldn't feed really, and obviously Moylan and Rein have yet to play a game elsewhere.

Fair point, but I was more making the point that it’s interesting how many players aren’t seeing out their contract. It seems quite high.

 

[Abacus]

The issue is not the $$$, it's the length that people are concerned with.

Contract negotiations are a trade off between time and cash. To consider 1 exclusive of the other is a false economy.

 

[OldPanther]

Contract negotiations are a trade off between time and cash. To consider 1 exclusive of the other is a false economy.

Not really. We here have no idea what Whare is on so it's pointless to try and discuss it but even if he's on minimum wage 5 years is a long time for a guy who hasn't played in 2 years. If he ends up sucking money from the cap for a few years for no return the club has nothing they can do and that's $100,000 a year that can't be used on the roster.

 

[billypilgrimnz]

Three years ago we decided to have two first grade level hookers in Segeyaro and Korosiau, decided to let one go early, and ended up losing the other anyway and were left with an old converted half there.

This season we had two first grade level 6s in Martin and Moylan, decided to let one go early, and ended up losing the other anyway.

We are our own worst enemies sometimes.

 

[hindy111]

"Ivan is tired and needs a rest from coaching" Gus is a condescending lying merkin. This will all fall apart sooner or later

What makes people think Ivan will still be at the tigers in 2020?
And who would want to play for their dad?
Ivans record at Warriors was 50% and 47% at panthers.

Des Hasler has a great record and look how it ended? Misses finals once in how long. Ivans coachin may of worked well his first few years in NZ. He is hardly the super coach people make him out to be .

 

[umina panther]

What makes people think Ivan will still be at the tigers in 2020?
And who would want to play for their dad?
Ivans record at Warriors was 50% and 47% at panthers.

Des Hasler has a great record and look how it ended? Misses finals once in how long. Ivans coachin may of worked well his first few years in NZ. He is hardly the super coach people make him out to be .

Knifing Gus doesn't have to mean Nathan goes and plays for daddy

 

[herbert henry1908]

What makes people think Ivan will still be at the tigers in 2020?
And who would want to play for their dad?
Ivans record at Warriors was 50% and 47% at panthers.

Des Hasler has a great record and look how it ended? Misses finals once in how long. Ivans coachin may of worked well his first few years in NZ. He is hardly the super coach people make him out to be .

He’s a rebuilder I think.

Pretty sure that’s what Gus saw too.

50% in NZ is pretty good tbh.

Elliott 45%
Mcfadden 45%
Kearney 27%
Moanie 49%
Endecott 38%
Graham 36%
Kemp 35%

Only coach with a better record was Anderson at 55%

He’s probably overrated but then he’s an improvement on the other Mickey Mouse coaches the tigers have had of recent.

 

[Abacus]

Just on the long serving player allowance.

I think the rule is a player has to play more than six continuous years of grade football with that club including Holden Cup and NSW Cup to get the discount.

Mansour's next contract.He debut with us in 2012. He should get a discount with McKendry next year.

But
If McKendry wasn't resigned for 2019. Mansour should get the 200k discount to come of the cap if he stayed? Is that right?

Long serving player allowance used to be a club concession - so as long as 1 player meets the criteria, the club saves/gains the allowance amount. If you have 5 players that meet the criteria, the just the allowance amount (in this case $200k) for the club's salary cap.
So if McKendry goes and Mansour is our only qualifying player, its worth $200k to the club to sign Mansour. If McKendry stays, still $200k and no additional cap benefit by signing Mansour.

 

[Abacus]

Not really. We here have no idea what Whare is on so it's pointless to try and discuss it but even if he's on minimum wage 5 years is a long time for a guy who hasn't played in 2 years. If he ends up sucking money from the cap for a few years for no return the club has nothing they can do and that's $100,000 a year that can't be used on the roster.

Unless he returns to his prior form, or even something close to it. Then you have a NZ international on, using your example, minimum wage.
All signings are based on imperfect information and many involve some element of a gamble. With a gamble, the greater the risk, the greater the potential reward. This explains the Whare signing in a nutshell.

 

[franklin2323]

Unless he returns to his prior form, or even something close to it. Then you have a NZ international on, using your example, minimum wage.
All signings are based on imperfect information and many involve some element of a gamble. With a gamble, the greater the risk, the greater the potential reward. This explains the Whare signing in a nutshell.

Also in these cases we'd have a flat rate too. Like $300k x 5 years meanwhile the cap goes up each year. Making the risk less at back end if he falls away and we are stuck with him.

Those of you against it. In 2020 when the cap is $12m or so. How much would a new starting centre cost? That is why the club would of gone so long in the aim he finds the form

 

[OldPanther]

Also in these cases we'd have a flat rate too. Like $300k x 5 years meanwhile the cap goes up each year. Making the risk less at back end if he falls away and we are stuck with him.

Those of you against it. In 2020 when the cap is $12m or so. How much would a new starting centre cost? That is why the club would of gone so long in the aim he finds the form

The cap doesn't increase every year.

 

[TheEroticGamer]

Whare would be on very little, so the only issue that would come with him staying for so long would be the off chance he becomes an injury riddled mess and wastes 1 out of the 30 slots allocated for the first grade squad space for one season.Because, you know, if he has to retire he'll no longer take up a squad space. Just have a designated amount of the cap go towards him for every season he's contracted for. Which, again, would be very little.

But that's an incredibly small downside to have a Kiwi representative centre...AS...YOUR...BACK-UP.

 

[OldPanther]

Whare would be on very little, so the only issue that would come with him staying for so long would be the off chance he becomes an injury riddled mess and wastes 1 out of the 30 slots allocated for the first grade squad space for one season.Because, you know, if he has to retire he'll no longer take up a squad space. Just have a designated amount of the cap go towards him for every season he's contracted for. Which, again, would be very little.

But that's an incredibly small downside to have a Kiwi representative centre...AS...YOUR...BACK-UP.

I don't disagree with that. The big problem will be in 2 or 3 years when they want to re-sign half the roster.