Rumoured Signings

[Colk]

Brother, i ask you google the ARU and it's downfall and consider how dying clubs impacts a competition.
No competition benefits from their organisations dying,

I agree we need more than a salary cap and some form of draft or other mechaism for parity of player talent is required, especially as we expand out to an 18th team... but killing off clubs is absolutely not the answer.

It’s relative mate. No competitions also benefits from having one or two teams winning every year particularly in the market we’re in.

 

[Captain Apollo]

For less money of course. Maybe it is time for the game to actually have notional values on players and stick to them

The media reports are that the monetary difference between the Panthers and Roosters offers was not that much. I think the point which won him over was the Roosters offered a 4 year contract whilst the Panthers only offered a 3 year deal.

 

[Valheru]

For less money of course. Maybe it is time for the game to actually have notional values on players and stick to them

What notional value would you put on Fifita?

 

[Babyface O'reilly]

The media reports are that the monetary difference between the Panthers and Roosters offers was not that much. I think the point which won him over was the Roosters offered a 4 year contract whilst the Panthers only offered a 3 year deal.

Apparently Holbrook helped getting him over the line too

 

[Bazal]

I mean I get that the Roosters sombrero is a meme and tbh probably a reality to a certain extent (and every club does it or tries to anyway)....but it's a weird take to point to this as an example of that or of a broken cap system or whatever when the Roosters currently have about 3 million bucks walking out the door. 5 if you count golf wagers!

 

[Valheru]

I mean I get that the Roosters sombrero is a meme and tbh probably a reality to a certain extent (and every club does it or tries to anyway)....but it's a weird take to point to this as an example of that or of a broken cap system or whatever when the Roosters currently have about 3 million bucks walking out the door. 5 if you count golf wagers!

What is most confusing to me is the same people sooking about the cap actively cheered for him to go to PENRITH lol

They have won 3 comps in a row.

 

[soc123_au]

What is most confusing to me is the same people sooking about the cap actively cheered for him to go to PENRITH lol

They have won 3 comps in a row.

When is the last time we signed a big name though? It's not really like for like. You guys signing the most highly regarded players is as regular as us beating you on the field.

 

[nick87]

What notional value would you put on Fifita?

I don't think we need a notional value on Fifita
He opted out of a contract that was set to pay him 1m.
And i could be wrong, but as i understand it the Dragons made a strong offer in that realm... that's the market and imo what he should be on the cap as

No issue with him going to the roosters for less money, there are 1000 reasons why a person make take less money in their career to take a specific opportunity. Best of luck to all parties and as a RL fan im really interested in seeing Fifita away from the Titans and in a more cut throat/competitive week to week situation to see what he looks like in that kind of set up.
But from a salary cap POV, if the league is serious about using the cap to help creative talent parity (and of course we know they're not), i dont think it should allow the cap hold for elite rep players to be below say 90-95% of established market value

 

[Bazal]

I don't think we need a notional value on Fifita
He opted out of a contract that was set to pay him 1m.
And i could be wrong, but as i understand it the Dragons made a strong offer in that realm... that's the market and imo what he should be on the cap as

No issue with him going to the roosters for less money, there are 1000 reasons why a person make take less money in their career to take a specific opportunity. Best of luck to all parties and as a RL fan im really interested in seeing Fifita away from the Titans and in a more cut throat/competitive week to week situation to see what he looks like in that kind of set up.
But from a salary cap POV, if the league is serious about using the cap to help creative talent parity (and of course we know they're not), i dont think it should allow the cap hold for elite rep players to be below say 90-95% of established market value

The issue with that is, who determines the market value? After all the Roosters are the market as much as the Dragons. A player is worth different amounts to different clubs of course. Desperate clubs pay more and always will, so determining a market value is impossible IMO. Third party stuff also doesn't help. I'd wager Fifita will earn more at the Roosters than the Dragons for eg just based on that. Not getting into the weeds about whether or not it's above board or whatever, but strong clubs attract lucrative sponsors. No one wants to throw piles of cash at the Titans....

If they were really about talent distribution they'd have a draft. It's not perfect by itself, but at least it gives weak clubs another avenue rather than paying overs. I also like a central contract system for the best players, like Cricket Australia.

 

[nick87]

Market value is how much someone is willing to pay for the asset
in this case someone was willing to pay Fifita 1m

You're right in that different assets are worth different amounts to different people. But in a free market, Fifita was valued at 1m and there were supposedly firm offers for that (certainly there was from the Titans). To me, that's market value established.

But yeah i get it, that's just my opinion and what makes sense to me, and people might agree or disagree with that and say "No the Dragons/Titans are desperate teams playing OVER market value"
Id say the people making that case are going to be almost entirely roosters fans and fair enough! haha.

Perhaps the middle ground is he should be registered as a cap hit for the middle value of those two spots... If someone is putting a firm, official offer to Fifita for 1m and the Roosters only want to pay him 825k... the cap hit is 912k

The last para is spot on, it's not about talent distribution and it never has been. So i guess spit balling ideas of how the salary cap should work to help talent distribution is all a bit moot

And i also want to be clear, i don't view this as a typical roosters salary sombrero thing... TBH I don't think a lot of that holds much water most of the time, but in this specific case, they're turning over a fairly substantial amount of cap space and filling some of it with Fifita is entirely reasonable

I just don't think if the NRL was serious about the cap being a talent distribution tool, it would or should be allowing elite players to have cap hits so substantially below what someone in the market is willing to pay

 

[Cheese sandwich]

Yes I'm a dope to some degree. Would not having a salary cap change the top 4, which seem pretty consistent in the NRL era?

Err, probably not a word you really want to describe yourself as.

 

[MugaB]

The media reports are that the monetary difference between the Panthers and Roosters offers was not that much. I think the point which won him over was the Roosters offered a 4 year contract whilst the Panthers only offered a 3 year deal.

Panthers I heard offered a 3 year deal, plus an extra in his favour, blade23 can confirm this, our offer was higher, but we can't offer nrlw, plus I'm sure the wife gets perks I suppose

 

[Valheru]

When is the last time we signed a big name though? It's not really like for like. You guys signing the most highly regarded players is as regular as us beating you on the field.

That's not what I'm saying

People are whinging about the cap not spreading talent etc yet they cheer lead for him to go to the 3 time defending premiers

Just lol

 

[MugaB]

Apparently Holbrook helped getting him over the line too

Holbrook, the guy who benched him

 

[soc123_au]

That's not what I'm saying

People are whinging about the cap not spreading talent etc yet they cheer lead for him to go to the 3 time defending premiers

Just lol

Yeah, I get where you are coming from. I just think it's more of a case of people being salty that the Roosters get their man again like every other time, more than a case of him going from a cellar dweller to a stronger team.

 

[Valheru]

I don't think we need a notional value on Fifita
He opted out of a contract that was set to pay him 1m.
And i could be wrong, but as i understand it the Dragons made a strong offer in that realm... that's the market and imo what he should be on the cap as

No issue with him going to the roosters for less money, there are 1000 reasons why a person make take less money in their career to take a specific opportunity. Best of luck to all parties and as a RL fan im really interested in seeing Fifita away from the Titans and in a more cut throat/competitive week to week situation to see what he looks like in that kind of set up.
But from a salary cap POV, if the league is serious about using the cap to help creative talent parity (and of course we know they're not), i dont think it should allow the cap hold for elite rep players to be below say 90-95% of established market value

I get what you're saying but there is an obvious issue there. I totally understand that in this case the player had a contract worth more that they opted out of but some hypotheticals....

Say Brisbane offer Sam Walker $1M per season but we only go with $850k, is his market value determined by the Brisbane offer and thus he is forced to go there?

What if we present a $1.5M offer to Nathan Cleary?

 

[MugaB]

What is most confusing to me is the same people sooking about the cap actively cheered for him to go to PENRITH lol

They have won 3 comps in a row.

Didn't buy a comp tho did we?

 

[Valheru]

Didn't buy a comp tho did we?

Irrelevant to what I said

 

[nick87]

I get what you're saying but there is an obvious issue there. I totally understand that in this case the player had a contract worth more that they opted out of but some hypotheticals....

Say Brisbane offer Sam Walker $1M per season but we only go with $850k, is his market value determined by the Brisbane offer and thus he is forced to go there?

What if we present a $1.5M offer to Nathan Cleary?

Forced to go there? No, absolutely not.
But if Sam Walker hits the open market, is made a formal offer by Brisbane at 1m per season, that's the market setting a value. Someone in the market values him at that price and is willing to pay that money for the asset. So in that instance by all means, stay at the roosters for the 850k...

But from a salary cap perspective, which is just ultimately fake accounting, if there is an established market rate of 1m... I don't think the NRL should allow a cap hit as low as 850k

 

[Valheru]

Forced to go there? No, absolutely not.
But if Sam Walker hits the open market, is made a formal offer by Brisbane at 1m per season, that's the market setting a value. Someone in the market values him at that price and is willing to pay that money for the asset. So in that instance by all means, stay at the roosters for the 850k...

But from a salary cap perspective, which is just ultimately fake accounting, if there is an established market rate of 1m... I don't think the NRL should allow a cap hit as low as 850k

Ok cool so you're talking cap hit as opposed to being forced to pay someone a certain value and/or forcing them to sign elsewhere?

I could definitely have that conversation but I do think there needs to be some leeway as you have suggested in another post to stop cynical or clear 'overs' offers. I guess we would have to determine what constitutes a formal offer.