Rumoured Targets 3

[Loose Cannon]

I had a figurative dream we wouid have Hetho and Barney as our props at their peak. Alas there is a reason it is called a dream. One has reached his potential. The other has not.

“Figurative dream” is an awesome phrase. Love it.

 

[HarVeeGee]

We kept playing him in 2nd row

reason he is killing it at warriors is him playing front row

Pretty sure a bit part of us doing that was him not being very happy when he did get picked in the middle.

I don’t accept that it’s on us that he realised he’s better at prop/lock *after* he left.

 

[Apey]

Saying Barnett was a 'beast' for us is definitely revisionist lol.

 

[HarVeeGee]

Regardless, Dr Dr is right. We don’t just need a middle, we need a new top of the depth chart middle. Sully’s been talking like he sees Jacob as a core player going forward, and IMO Jacob would be better as prop #2 playing a more impactful 35-40 minutes rather than as prop #1 playing 55 minutes.

It’s probably going to have to come from within though. The wraps on Cody Hopwood are huge, been the best forward of his age/Aussie Schoolboys cohort, but getting to that Carrigan/Tapine sort of level is a long process.

 

[Rod]

Have mentioned this before but while we obviously need more middles I'm not convinced we need a top one unless it's a true marquee one like Haas.

If they're not there on the market then I'd prefer we bide our time because it feels like a position you can scrape together more than others through fringe guys and young players. As we well know the Dogs have gambled considerably that Leo is in that top echelon, but they're getting on pretty well already with mostly no-name front rowers.

 

[Rod]

Saying Barnett was a 'beast' for us is definitely revisionist lol.

If memory serves the general consensus was that it was disappointing to lose him but not the end of the world. The fact he had copped that big suspension was probably still very much at the forefront of Knights fans minds though.

We made a good offer to him to stay and the Warriors beat it. It was an overpay at the time but fair play it turned out very well.

 

[Dr Dr Gimedanews]

If memory serves the general consensus was that it was disappointing to lose him but not the end of the world. The fact he had copped that big suspension was probably still very much at the forefront of Knights fans minds though.

We made a good offer to him to stay and the Warriors beat it. It was an overpay at the time but fair play it turned out very well.

Wasn't there an issue with Barnett's neck? There was an injury concern as well I remember.

 

[Dr Dr Gimedanews]

Regardless, Dr Dr is right. We don’t just need a middle, we need a new top of the depth chart middle. Sully’s been talking like he sees Jacob as a core player going forward, and IMO Jacob would be better as prop #2 playing a more impactful 35-40 minutes rather than as prop #1 playing 55 minutes.

It’s probably going to have to come from within though. The wraps on Cody Hopwood are huge, been the best forward of his age/Aussie Schoolboys cohort, but getting to that Carrigan/Tapine sort of level is a long process.

yeh not easy for a kid in the middle, it will take quite some time. We have a fairly young pack emerging and will feel the loss of Friz when he retires, his experience is invaluable. Same Gags for that matter.

 

[HarVeeGee]

Have mentioned this before but while we obviously need more middles I'm not convinced we need a top one unless it's a true marquee one like Haas.

If they're not there on the market then I'd prefer we bide our time because it feels like a position you can scrape together more than others through fringe guys and young players. As we well know the Dogs have gambled considerably that Leo is in that top echelon, but they're getting on pretty well already with mostly no-name front rowers.

I think it depends. Definitely if it’s a non-spine player making big money, it’s harder for that player to be more valuable than the value offered by two players who cost the same cumulatively. Payne Haas on his $1.2 million could not be replaced by any two $600K props, or a $7-800K one and a $4-500K one, and have the team be better off. I’m not convinced you can say that about big Tino though.

Carrigan makes a reported $8-900K and Barnett a reported $7-800K atm. Both are easily worth that - there’s no combo of two $400K middles you could name who are cumulatively more valuable. Those are the sort of waters we’re playing in (it’s about what we would have played Leo, making the punt on him hitting the top ten with those guys over the next few years), the level of cap space we’ll have - the ability to pay one prop/lock about that amount, on top of J Saf who makes $700Kish I believe. The Storm have over $1.6 million in just NAS and Stefano (side note: both awful deals on current evidence) on top of their expensive spine and $1.8 million or so invested in Howarth, Coates and Eli Katoa. So our expensive spine isn’t going to totally price us out of a couple of middles on pretty big contracts… it’ll just be a matter of betting on the right middle, and then intelligently plugging other gaps in the team with cheapies.

If Brodie Jones and Mat Croker keep signing the pieces of paper we put in front of them for example, I don’t think they’ll be going anywhere, because cut rate players who can competently give you 30-40 first grade minutes will be like gold for a team in our position.

 

[Woody90]

I think it depends. Definitely if it’s a non-spine player making big money, it’s harder for that player to be more valuable than the value offered by two players who cost the same cumulatively. Payne Haas on his $1.2 million could not be replaced by any two $600K props, or a $7-800K one and a $4-500K one, and have the team be better off. I’m not convinced you can say that about big Tino though.

Carrigan makes a reported $8-900K and Barnett a reported $7-800K atm. Both are easily worth that - there’s no combo of two $400K middles you could name who are cumulatively more valuable. Those are the sort of waters we’re playing in (it’s about what we would have played Leo, making the punt on him hitting the top ten with those guys over the next few years), the level of cap space we’ll have - the ability to pay one prop/lock about that amount, on top of J Saf who makes $700Kish I believe. The Storm have over $1.6 million in just NAS and Stefano (side note: both awful deals on current evidence) on top of their expensive spine and $1.8 million or so invested in Howarth, Coates and Eli Katoa. So our expensive spine isn’t going to totally price us out of a couple of middles on pretty big contracts… it’ll just be a matter of betting on the right middle, and then intelligently plugging other gaps in the team with cheapies.

If Brodie Jones and Mat Croker keep signing the pieces of paper we put in front of them for example, I don’t think they’ll be going anywhere, because cut rate players who can competently give you 30-40 first grade minutes will be like gold for a team in our position.

I’m very much of the view that you don’t spend a heap of money on props as they don’t even play a full game, you need to still pay for someone else to sub them. They’re also more likely to miss game time through suspension, etc.

Most of them are terrible investments to spend a lot of money on. Obviously the only exception to that is if they’re a great leader who help take the rest of the pack to another level. I would spend a lot of $$$ on a prop like that, but they’re few and far in between. There’s a reason the Roosters were looking to desperately bring JWH back.

We obviously need to get some more middles, but I really doubt the club would be planning on chasing anyone commanding high $$$. Even if we could afford it I don’t think we would. We don’t actually need props who can individually win us games. We just need a bunch of hard workers who can hold their own as a unit and allow the spine and backs to be out match winners. There’s a few blokes at other clubs who are stuck behind more expensive forwards who I think could come in and do a solid job for us until our a few of our juniors are more ready.

 

[slotmachine]

would be planning on chasing anyone commanding high $$$

There's no middle on the market for 2026 you would pay more than 500k, so it's not really a choice

 

[Mr_Knightside]

Is Cory Jensen still available? If so he’d be a good shout as a recruitment target for next year.

 

[ryan.a87]

Haven’t seen tooheys news in a couple of weeks? He on holidays?

 

[HarVeeGee]

I suspect probably the solution next year will be Friz starting at prop, with Cant at 13, and hoping that bridges the gap for Cody Hopwood to be ready to start in 2027. If we do keep KPP Friz is clearly purely a middle going forward.

Allegedly POS was interested in Tom Hazelton before we were priced out of that, who’s better in a bench impact role. That’s an interesting guy to go after when we need a starter. Makes me think POS thinks the issue is good middles in depth rather than not having a good solution to start games. We lost interest once it was clear he wasn’t going to be gettable on a value deal.

I’m very much of the view that you don’t spend a heap of money on props as they don’t even play a full game, you need to still pay for someone else to sub them. They’re also more likely to miss game time through suspension, etc.

Most of them are terrible investments to spend a lot of money on. Obviously the only exception to that is if they’re a great leader who help take the rest of the pack to another level. I would spend a lot of $$$ on a prop like that, but they’re few and far in between. There’s a reason the Roosters were looking to desperately bring JWH back.

We obviously need to get some more middles, but I really doubt the club would be planning on chasing anyone commanding high $$$. Even if we could afford it I don’t think we would. We don’t actually need props who can individually win us games. We just need a bunch of hard workers who can hold their own as a unit and allow the spine and backs to be out match winners. There’s a few blokes at other clubs who are stuck behind more expensive forwards who I think could come in and do a solid job for us until our a few of our juniors are more ready.

Yeah I agree with that. There is a top tier which is worth the money & teams don’t win comps without those guys. Haas, Carrigan, Tapine, Fish, Yeo. There are do a job cheapies. Josh King, Trent Loiero, Brodie Jones, or talented up and comers on initial cheap deals like Leo has been for us. And there are guys in between who aren’t actually that much better than the cheapies (or in some cases are worse), but they get paid like they are a lot better. You want to be careful not to sign too many of the in between guys.

Good recruitment guys identify the surplus value cheapies, pay for the elite when warranted, and avoid the mid rangers like they’re covered in vomit and turds.

 

[slotmachine]

You want to be careful not to sign too many of the in between guys.

Cough Jack Hetherington Cough.

 

[HarVeeGee]

Is Cory Jensen still available? If so he’d be a good shout as a recruitment target for next year.

He’s okay but probably exactly what we should avoid, makes bleh money at Brisbane but puts up good numbers, can play big minutes when needed, but doesn’t actually impact games that much (aside from in a bad way, from being pretty iffy defensively).

If he goes somewhere else it’s for more money after the glow up he’s got in Brisbane, and all of a sudden he’s not taking the next run after Haas or Carrigan anymore and he looks a lot worse.

We don’t want to sign Corey Jensen, we want to get good at identifying our own versions of what players like Corey Jensen and Keenan Palasia have been for Brisbane. Or Nichols for Souths. Unfashionable do a job guys on shit money.

 

[Alex28]

Haven’t seen tooheys news in a couple of weeks? He on holidays?

Baz is overseas for a month. Fairly sure he said on Twitter the column is back in May.

 

[Alex28]

I’m all for re-signing KPP, but if the figure of $600K a year is accurate, not at that price. I think he could get to be a top level second rower, but how long do you pay for potential?

 

[The Predictor]

I got a say , u guy’s are great travellers….but u petty and somewhat hateful…..I can see why Lomax moved on for less money

 

[alexwilliams_66692007]

I got a say , u guy’s are great travellers….but u petty and somewhat hateful…..I can see why Lomax moved on for less money

What?