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Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
93,611
It wasn’t bad luck. We shat the bed in the last 3 games of the season
We upset Manly in the third last game, at Pirtek. A f**king awesome win, in a big game. Maybe Manly shat the bed? They were coming first at the time but then went on to win one from the next four, missing out on the minor premiership and going out of the finals in straight sets. We lost the next two away, but the Knights were no worse than us that year, with an almost identical points differential. The Raiders loss (in Canberra) was an upset, and the players probably panicked, but there was f**k all big game experience in that team. Bad luck or poor recruiting? Or just the coach's fault?
if we’d the grand final then that would have been us who beat everyone. That’s my whole point.
Well it's a dumb point. The Cowboys played well in that finals series because of all the Origin and finals experience, not because of their coach. Coaches don't win games, teams do.
2 years is a long time in rugby league. How did our team go two years after making the grand final?
We made the grand final with a lot of luck though. We never had that great a team, even in 2022. We only had three players picked in Origin that year (five games total). Two years later we had two players picked for three games, with two of those games coming from Moses, who missed most of the NRL season. In 2015 the Cowboys had four players for 12 appearances, and in 2017 when they made the grand final, they had four players for eight appearances, not including Thurston.
Opportunities like that don’t always come around very often. Look what happens if you miss your window. It’s the coach’s job to prepare the team to take the opportunity.
Just because they lost doesn't mean they were unprepared. There's two teams out there. If they're both prepared, one of them will still probably lose.
Upsets happen in sport all the time.
They do, but when that happens it's because the favourite didn't play their best. Like when the Cowboys shat the bed in 2022. They had a better team than us and a much better points differential, and we stood up while they didn't.
Were the odds insurmountable? I would say no. 7 of those players from that much better squad played for NSW origin that season and lost the series.
Whether NSW lost the series is irrelevant. If anything those Panthers players might've taken motivation from it. How many of them never played Origin again after that series loss?
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
93,611
I don't even have to read Pou's rubbish, just judging by your responses I'm going to safely assume he'd be a dog shit coach he just tells his boys 'Yeah nah we're f**ked hey!'
Coaches are part of the team and have to believe the team can win. Outside observers don't have to believe anything. We have no control over any of it.
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
93,611
When we signed JOffa it was real statement signing from our management. How our management went procuring this very special talent from one of our wooden spoon rivals was so impressive. And although we just missed out on the spoon last year in the spoon bowl. Our management have been absolutely spot on with their aspirations for the spoon this year with great signing like JOffa. What’s left now is to secure this immortal JOffa for another 10 years similar to the Dylan Brown deal with options in JOffa’s favour.

JOffa has real talent of blessing clubs he goes to, they all end up contesting spoons. He’s a player that will be celebrated on Parra folklore for many years to come. Many years. The type of signing just reaffirms my faith in CEO Jim and the trolley boy O’Neil that they actually know what they are doing. They are Phil Goulds of the spoon. A dynasty awaits.
Blokes with 200 NRL games have been trusted by plenty of coaches and administrators. Ofahengaue was even picked in Origin. He's no bum. You are.
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
93,611
Dead right. Finals should be about playing teams demonstrably worse.

No one can be expected to beat teams with better records than them.…and the coach certainly shouldn’t be responsible for turning out a worse record over sustained years.

you are absolutely correct.
No you're absolutely correct! Every game should be a flip of the coin affair, regardless of the difference in quality between the two teams. In fact, we know there is zero difference between NRL rosters, and every game is decided by the better coach.

you are absolutely correct.
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
93,611
If we were far more consistent and didn’t continually lost to lower ranked teams we might of finished top 4 a few more times and me these so called better teams. How many times did we get dusted by last placed teams under Bea?? Probably another of his many records achieved at Parra.
If we were more consistent, we wouldn't have beaten better teams either. You can't have it both ways ffs
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
93,611
Eels wins against better teams:

2014
Beat the Roosters
Beat the Cowboys
Beat Manly

2015
Beat the Storm

2016
Beat the Cowboys
Beat the Raiders

2017
Beat Melbourne
Beat Brisbane (twice)

2018
Beat six teams that were better than us ffs

2019
Beat Souths
Beat Canberra

2020
Beat Penrith
Beat Melbourne

2021
Beat Melbourne (twice)

2022
Beat Melbourne (twice)
Beat Penrith (twice)
Beat the Roosters
Beat the Cowboys in the finals

2023
Beat Penrith (twice)
Beat Newcastle

2024
Beat Canterbury
Beat Manly
Beat the Cowboys
Beat Cronulla

What this data shows is that any team can shit the bed against weaker opponents. Sometimes it's us, sometimes it's our opposition. But it rarely happens in the finals.
 

Hindmarshisgod2

Juniors
Messages
1,542
Eels wins against better teams:

2014
Beat the Roosters
Beat the Cowboys
Beat Manly

2015
Beat the Storm

2016
Beat the Cowboys
Beat the Raiders

2017
Beat Melbourne
Beat Brisbane (twice)

2018
Beat six teams that were better than us ffs

2019
Beat Souths
Beat Canberra

2020
Beat Penrith
Beat Melbourne

2021
Beat Melbourne (twice)

2022
Beat Melbourne (twice)
Beat Penrith (twice)
Beat the Roosters
Beat the Cowboys in the finals

2023
Beat Penrith (twice)
Beat Newcastle

2024
Beat Canterbury
Beat Manly
Beat the Cowboys
Beat Cronulla

What this data shows is that any team can shit the bed against weaker opponents. Sometimes it's us, sometimes it's our opposition. But it rarely happens in the finals.
Does your data show of those better teams we beat were understrength due to injuries or suspensions of thier better players?
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
93,611
Does your data show of those better teams we beat were understrength due to injuries or suspensions of thier better players?
It’s not my data, it’s the data. This means you can look up the answers to your questions, and any preconceptions you might have around how close we were to full strength when we lost games we were expected to win.
 

T-Boon

Coach
Messages
16,233
In the Knights Harold Matthews team the fella who plays fullback in defense plays dummy half in attack. Not a bad idea. Fullback does the lease amount of defense so is fresh for attack - you want someone fresh/sharp out of DH more so than anywhere else. It would be good if RL teams needed two fullbacks so you could have two fresh attackers who also don't have to practice wrestling most of their working life.
 

JokerEel

Coach
Messages
14,973
In the Knights Harold Matthews team the fella who plays fullback in defense plays dummy half in attack. Not a bad idea. Fullback does the lease amount of defense so is fresh for attack - you want someone fresh/sharp out of DH more so than anywhere else. It would be good if RL teams needed two fullbacks so you could have two fresh attackers who also don't have to practice wrestling most of their working life.


Typically your dummy half makes a lot of tackles so even if the 9 isn't at dummy half when in attack he won't be fresh for ball playing out the back like the fullback typically would.
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
93,611
In the Knights Harold Matthews team the fella who plays fullback in defense plays dummy half in attack. Not a bad idea. Fullback does the lease amount of defense so is fresh for attack - you want someone fresh/sharp out of DH more so than anywhere else. It would be good if RL teams needed two fullbacks so you could have two fresh attackers who also don't have to practice wrestling most of their working life.
We used Gutherson at dummy half a few years ago. It allows you to bring another bigger defender into the middle, at the cost of one less spine player in attack.
 

T-Boon

Coach
Messages
16,233
We used Gutherson at dummy half a few years ago. It allows you to bring another bigger defender into the middle, at the cost of one less spine player in attack.
We used him a lot like that more so because he was fit as a fiddle rather than being sharp. He had good judgement out of dummy half in his prime though I admit.
I think they should aim for a situation where your best attacking player is playing in the most important attacking position and they are doing the least amount of work in defense in a game and in practice. Like a striker in soccer.
 

T-Boon

Coach
Messages
16,233
Typically your dummy half makes a lot of tackles so even if the 9 isn't at dummy half when in attack he won't be fresh for ball playing out the back like the fullback typically would.
True but like Escobar said you can have an extra defensive dude in the middle and use him for hit-ups. Then you are short one ball player in the backline that the fullback usually does. Maybe solve that by having another ball player who plays centre in defense (to me centre is basically a redundant position now - they are probably the worst players on most teams).
 
Last edited:
Messages
19,567
In the Knights Harold Matthews team the fella who plays fullback in defense plays dummy half in attack. Not a bad idea. Fullback does the lease amount of defense so is fresh for attack - you want someone fresh/sharp out of DH more so than anywhere else. It would be good if RL teams needed two fullbacks so you could have two fresh attackers who also don't have to practice wrestling most of their working life.

I thought you promised not to suggest any more revolutionary tactics. This is a shameless appropriation of one of my theories a c ouple of years back (I think I had suggested the use of 7 fullbacks, but same vibe).
 

Tiger5150

Bench
Messages
4,129
In the Knights Harold Matthews team the fella who plays fullback in defense plays dummy half in attack. Not a bad idea. Fullback does the lease amount of defense so is fresh for attack - you want someone fresh/sharp out of DH more so than anywhere else. It would be good if RL teams needed two fullbacks so you could have two fresh attackers who also don't have to practice wrestling most of their working life.
So who plays fullback in attack?

You have 2 fullbacks? One plays fullback in defence and DH in attack? The other one must then defend in the middle and then try to play the most aerobically difficult job on the field in attack?

Sound plan stan.
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
93,611
So who plays fullback in attack?

You have 2 fullbacks? One plays fullback in defence and DH in attack? The other one must then defend in the middle and then try to play the most aerobically difficult job on the field in attack?

Sound plan stan.
Fullback is itself a defensive position. In attack there is a couple of roles that they play. Some sniff around the middle, others just hang on one side like a second five-eighth. Dylan Edwards does this (poorly) but also makes a f**kload of hit ups, which he does extremely well. Theoretically a fullback could attack at first receiver or dummy half or even on the wing if they lack playmaking skills.
 

Hindmarshisgod2

Juniors
Messages
1,542
We upset Manly in the third last game, at Pirtek. A f**king awesome win, in a big game. Maybe Manly shat the bed? They were coming first at the time but then went on to win one from the next four, missing out on the minor premiership and going out of the finals in straight sets. We lost the next two away, but the Knights were no worse than us that year, with an almost identical points differential. The Raiders loss (in Canberra) was an upset, and the players probably panicked, but there was f**k all big game experience in that team. Bad luck or poor recruiting? Or just the coach's fault?

Well it's a dumb point. The Cowboys played well in that finals series because of all the Origin and finals experience, not because of their coach. Coaches don't win games, teams do.

We made the grand final with a lot of luck though. We never had that great a team, even in 2022. We only had three players picked in Origin that year (five games total). Two years later we had two players picked for three games, with two of those games coming from Moses, who missed most of the NRL season. In 2015 the Cowboys had four players for 12 appearances, and in 2017 when they made the grand final, they had four players for eight appearances, not including Thurston.

Just because they lost doesn't mean they were unprepared. There's two teams out there. If they're both prepared, one of them will still probably lose.

They do, but when that happens it's because the favourite didn't play their best. Like when the Cowboys shat the bed in 2022. They had a better team than us and a much better points differential, and we stood up while they didn't.

Whether NSW lost the series is irrelevant. If anything those Panthers players might've taken motivation from it. How many of them never played Origin again after that series loss?
You're over thinking it bro. Do you believe in the bounce of the ball???? It's not all about statistics.
 

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