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Rumours and Stuff

TheRam

First Grade
Messages
9,980
Personally I don't give a shit what he thinks, don't rate him. For every good thing he has ever done he has f**ked up as well.

He's just another self opinionated blow hard wind bag.



Agree we haven't, otherwise we wouldn't have had such a long drought and we have developed plenty of good players but we dont retain them. We have a few juniors in our team atm, Reed, Dylbags, Haze, Mitch, Matto and Sivo. Thats a big improvement on the amount of our players that have come through from the lower grades.

I believe we are getting better now that we have the right set up in the office, just not where we want to be yet.

Other than wanting to blow Gus, you still haven't said how you would implement anything, or how you would change our set up.

What you want me to state a plan of how to fix our pathways? If that is what you are asking for, you are an idiot who is just trying to score points with a "gotcha" moment.

Mate they hire seasoned professionals who still get it wrong to do it. That is why you need the highest calibre personnel. But slowly more and more clubs are realising how vital this part of the game is and are making moves in this direction. I heard on 360 a month or so ago that quite a few of the clubs are now looking at copying the Gus/Panters model believing now that long term success and sustainability can only be achieved if you have quality juniors coming through your pathways regularly and therefore not needing to constantly go to market and pay top dollar for your recruitment. Hence why the Dragons and Dogs tried acquiring Gus's services recently.

Anyway, if you want a comprehensive outline of a great pathways setup, maybe write to Gus. I'm sure he will be eager to assist.
 

TheRam

First Grade
Messages
9,980
It's a bit of a catch 22 though as we will start to see with the Panthers. Most of their current cohort of NRL quality juniors will be lost to the club because their pathway is blocked, ie Burton, Laurie, Blore or they will lose current NRL players who were juniors in order to fit in upcoming.

Does it matter though? That is like saying that a farmer shouldn't bother putting seed in the ground because the birds will pick of a portion of his tomatoes when they are ripe for the picking.

Well the farmer obviously doesn't like that a percentage of his hard earned labour is set upon by the buzzards, but he also understands that to not sow the seed in the first place is ruinous and long term suicide and the buzzards are just the price of doing good business.

The trick is to make sure the soil is always fertile and then identify the juiciest fruit on the vines and protect them at all cost and always keep planting new seeds every new season.
 

Gazzamatta

First Grade
Messages
8,580
The Roosters were one but I can't think of the other one because I was thinking too much about how he thought Parra were not developing at all. He said something about there is a difference between having a lot of juniors and developing. Which we don't do properly.
Cronulla. Gus is always talking up The Sharks junior programs
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
67,282
Implement Penrith's development program for starters. And before you say that we are a development club and we are doing a good job, I say we aren't on both fronts.

Why would I say that? Well Phil Gould about 6 weeks ago said on 100%Footy or his podcast I can't remember which, that Parramatta are not a development club. Now why would he say that? I don't know, but he would know, right? More so then you or I or anyone else here that wants to come to the clubs defense. I mean that's what the guy is great at doing and what the Warriors have now hired him to fix for NZ and only the other day I heard a NZ official wax lyrical of all the stuff that Gould is doing over there in restructuring their whole pathways e.t.c. and that in the not to distant future they expect major improvements and outcomes due to all his ideas and work that his is implementing.

Love him or hate him, he is brilliant at this type of stuff. Yeah sure he has a massive ego, but you aren't hiring him for his humility. You are getting him in there to do a job that he is probably the most qualified human being in the game today to sort out. Once done you move him on just like the Panthers did, before his ego and hands on meddling get in the way. He is a tinkerer and innovator so if you leave him in there long enough he start to get fancy and rearranging things because he likes to always update and try different things. So you get him out before he over cooks the pie so to speak.

But he is peerless when setting up and adding all the ingredients to bake the pie. That is why both the Dragons and just last week the Bulldogs also have tried to poach him but he stayed solid with the Warriors to complete the task he already signed up to do.

But getting back to Parra, if Gus reckons that we are not a developing club, he also named 2 or 3 other clubs that are doing a good job, but made a point of Parra not being a developing club and a wasted opportunity, then I will take his opinion over anyone here that that is probably true. I mean look at the results of our juniors coming through over the last decade or so. Hardly a list of stellar standout stars to be overly excited or impressed with.

Now I am sure that many here will jump up and down and refute his statement or mount a list of excuses as to why this or that caused our development to suffer, but the fact remains that we are still, in Gus's eyes NOT a development club. So again I ask why? What would make him say that? Sure some here would say maybe Gus has a hidden agenda? Really? Like what hidden agenda? Like what for? From what I see is that all he wants and has always advocated for is for all clubs to be well run and develop player pathways properly so ultimately the game thrives like never before and also starve off the AFL incursion. What isn't a hidden agenda is that our junior numbers have declined over the same period, by about 1000-1500. Now if we were really kicking goals in the pathways side of things I would expect our juniors to have grown not shrunk. The Panthers is so large that they don't really want anymore because they couldn't handle them properly.

We also have yet to see any significant influx of quality juniors coming out like the Panthers which I think is a tell-tale sign that he maybe right. Anyway what I would do is as soon as he has completed with his mission at the Warriors, is to beg him to come to Parra and do the exact thing for us, with obviously a Parra spin on it. This would in my opinion be the most significant signing our club has made since Jack Gibson. This is Gould's strong suit, he loves this stuff. He lives and breathes it. We could not do any better in regards to our long term future and success. Hell I would ask him now and try to get him on a handshake deal that when he finishes up with the Warriors, and he is ready to jump back in, he comes to us and does his thing.
Merkins took the piss out of his five year plan for years, and it only started bearing fruit last year - NINE YEARS after he started. Are you willing to wait that long? We only announced our plan to become a development club in June 2019 (two years ago), following our post-wooden spoon review: https://www.parraeels.com.au/conten...0f121087fa/strategic-plan-summary_tla_web.pdf

That three year strategic plan ends this year, and it looks like they've made massive improvements. At the time they announced it we didn't even have our own training facility (unlike Penrith). I reckon they've proven they know what they're doing, and if the great Gus Gould can take nine years for his development program to produce a premiership-capable team, we can surely be a bit patient after two.
 

Delboy

First Grade
Messages
6,028
A couple of major issues in our own backyard, Blacktown Patrician Bros has Penrith junior recruitment heavily involved, we have just started to make inroads, but their sportmaster is ex Riff so they tend to be favoured.Even worse is Westfields Sports, where we lost our grip about 8 years ago, Manly hired their football coach into their junior rep system and he heavily influences boys to join Manly. Again that is now recognised , but a long way to get back to where the Eels should be.

Fairfield Pats are just rebuilding their league progamme, so we should try and influence them more.

The Penrith junior league is much stronger in numbers at 15 years and above, but still suffer from the big clubs sucking players into their teams and inevitably becoming effectively a 3/4 team comp, but they do have Div 2 and Div 3 teams which help.

If you want to look at successes in the Parra system it’s playing U18 on Friday nights giving them a free weekend (that age group like it), still not as strong as Penrith but getting better.

Overall there has been improvement since BA insisted that we show more emphasis in our juniors, but probably still 3/4 years behind Penrith. Juniors were an afterthought and declined once Brian Smith‘s JETS initiative wasnt progressed after he left, it’s back in place now but it had to rebuilt and refocussed. Looking at young players in Reggies and below, it’s promising .
 

hindy111

Immortal
Messages
40,667
If you can unleash 2-3 juniors per season your doing well.
And if they are 10yr NRL quality players or rep quality then its even more important.
Over the last 4yrs we have developed and debut 6. I dont wna hear this shit about Mahoney coming from Dogs. He was unwanted and played in our Flegg side.

Kafusi,Brown,Mahoney,Dunster,Arthurs, Stefano. That is 6 guys off the top of my head. I'd say of we debuts 8-12 we would be doing what we need over a 4yr period. Could add Stone also but I will leave him out for now.

Who is up next? That is the question. This year isn't finished and I feel like Penisini is a chance perhaps. Then we move onto 2022. Perhaps we have another 2 or 3 debut.

We have done quite well in the area of knocking g players unwanted or on the cheap and getting great value or turning them into NRL quality players.

Papali, Cartwright,Opacic,Sivo and Marata all have been nice pick ups on the cheap. We may not of developed them but we did spot them as players with potential and where able to get them on cheap deals. Id value this as far more effective way of building a great side then paying up for some young overhyped up and coming star. Look at Stefano had we kept him for 270k. We miss out on Papali and Bryce. It will take Stefano years to develop into a seasoned NRL player and your paying for potential in years to come. D.Brown is a great example.

Junior development is very important. But spotting good talent elsewhere is equally as important......
 

emjaycee

Coach
Messages
10,277
A couple of major issues in our own backyard, Blacktown Patrician Bros has Penrith junior recruitment heavily involved, we have just started to make inroads, but their sportmaster is ex Riff so they tend to be favoured.Even worse is Westfields Sports, where we lost our grip about 8 years ago, Manly hired their football coach into their junior rep system and he heavily influences boys to join Manly. Again that is now recognised , but a long way to get back to where the Eels should be.

Fairfield Pats are just rebuilding their league progamme, so we should try and influence them more.

The Penrith junior league is much stronger in numbers at 15 years and above, but still suffer from the big clubs sucking players into their teams and inevitably becoming effectively a 3/4 team comp, but they do have Div 2 and Div 3 teams which help.

If you want to look at successes in the Parra system it’s playing U18 on Friday nights giving them a free weekend (that age group like it), still not as strong as Penrith but getting better.

Overall there has been improvement since BA insisted that we show more emphasis in our juniors, but probably still 3/4 years behind Penrith. Juniors were an afterthought and declined once Brian Smith‘s JETS initiative wasnt progressed after he left, it’s back in place now but it had to rebuilt and refocussed. Looking at young players in Reggies and below, it’s promising .
That's kind of what i said above but without the specific detail.
Thanks @Delboy
 

Twizzle

Administrator
Staff member
Messages
142,384
Anyway, if you want a comprehensive outline of a great pathways setup, maybe write to Gus. I'm sure he will be eager to assist.

No, you were critical of our system and I was asking what would you change, and your answer is "Gus"

I think we are improving each year, slowly, but then again when you hit rock bottom the only way is up.

Dont forget Gus had a 5 year plan that took almost 10 years to implement at the Panthers and they only showed real improvement after he left. He has also spent time at the Dragons and I cant see any difference he has made to them. Personally, I can't see what all the fuss is about.
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
67,282
Unless we can fix our defensive woes it doesn't matter who we have in our roster. Hopefully what we saw last week (admittedly against a very poor team) points to a fix in that area. Waqa had his second best performance for us and the right side looked solid in A & D. This week will either confirm or not if our defence is improving.
This week is one f**king game ffs. It won't confirm our deny anything. You need to look at a much bigger sample of games.
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
67,282
Its quite easy to work out imo. He is still listed as a player so they want him. If he was up to trouble he would of been released or a statement by now. I'd say he is going through a tough time personally. And we do not need to know what that is.
The clubs most likely said have 6mths off and are supporting him and will see him back I reckon later in the year. If not next season.
Michael Jennings is still listed as a player on the club's official profiles page.
 

TheRam

First Grade
Messages
9,980
Merkins took the piss out of his five year plan for years, and it only started bearing fruit last year - NINE YEARS after he started. Are you willing to wait that long? We only announced our plan to become a development club in June 2019 (two years ago), following our post-wooden spoon review: https://www.parraeels.com.au/conten...0f121087fa/strategic-plan-summary_tla_web.pdf

That three year strategic plan ends this year, and it looks like they've made massive improvements. At the time they announced it we didn't even have our own training facility (unlike Penrith). I reckon they've proven they know what they're doing, and if the great Gus Gould can take nine years for his development program to produce a premiership-capable team, we can surely be a bit patient after two.

I think we are a better NRL squad then what Gus took over at Penrith back then.

I am referring to our development pathways. We keep doing what we are doing at the NRL level, but rejig our pathways mate. Whether we win a title with roughly what we now have at NRL level will come down to coaching, injuries and how much the players want it. If we can jag a potent outside back or two, we will increase our chances significantly.

As for our pathways, in my opinion, I think we can do a lot better. BTW, it didn't take 10 years for the talent to start coming through at the Panthers, it is just that it is peaking at the moment. But they also had Gus's over the top tinkering to contend with. Now that he is not there to meddle with the coaching side of things and the talent is constantly coming through, I have no doubt that barring injuries they will win a title or two over the next few years.
 

Cumberland Eel

Juniors
Messages
1,339
A couple of major issues in our own backyard, Blacktown Patrician Bros has Penrith junior recruitment heavily involved, we have just started to make inroads, but their sportmaster is ex Riff so they tend to be favoured.Even worse is Westfields Sports, where we lost our grip about 8 years ago, Manly hired their football coach into their junior rep system and he heavily influences boys to join Manly. Again that is now recognised , but a long way to get back to where the Eels should be.

Fairfield Pats are just rebuilding their league progamme, so we should try and influence them more.

The Penrith junior league is much stronger in numbers at 15 years and above, but still suffer from the big clubs sucking players into their teams and inevitably becoming effectively a 3/4 team comp, but they do have Div 2 and Div 3 teams which help.

If you want to look at successes in the Parra system it’s playing U18 on Friday nights giving them a free weekend (that age group like it), still not as strong as Penrith but getting better.

Overall there has been improvement since BA insisted that we show more emphasis in our juniors, but probably still 3/4 years behind Penrith. Juniors were an afterthought and declined once Brian Smith‘s JETS initiative wasnt progressed after he left, it’s back in place now but it had to rebuilt and refocussed. Looking at young players in Reggies and below, it’s promising .
Fairfield Pats is an interesting one as some serious talent is coming through 14 to 17s age group there. hope we have them identified and locked into the systems..
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
67,282
What you want me to state a plan of how to fix our pathways? If that is what you are asking for, you are an idiot who is just trying to score points with a "gotcha" moment.

Mate they hire seasoned professionals who still get it wrong to do it. That is why you need the highest calibre personnel. But slowly more and more clubs are realising how vital this part of the game is and are making moves in this direction. I heard on 360 a month or so ago that quite a few of the clubs are now looking at copying the Gus/Panters model believing now that long term success and sustainability can only be achieved if you have quality juniors coming through your pathways regularly and therefore not needing to constantly go to market and pay top dollar for your recruitment. Hence why the Dragons and Dogs tried acquiring Gus's services recently.

Anyway, if you want a comprehensive outline of a great pathways setup, maybe write to Gus. I'm sure he will be eager to assist.
So you reckon every club should hire the best people to develop their juniors? Are there enough of the best to go around? Why does Gould only work for clubs with massive junior areas, like the Panthers and Warriors? I think you are seriously overrating the quality and numbers in our local catchment. It's 2021 not 1991. Demographics have changed Parramatta, just like it's changed many of the other formerly strong junior districts. 'Rugby league families' are moving to Penrith or southeast QLD. So while Parramatta was once the cheap western fringe of Sydney, that now describes suburbs much closer to Penrith and Campbelltown. Richmond is going the same way and at least that is notionally in our catchment. But the myth of our superior junior area is just that in 2021; a myth. Rough and tumble kids from two parent families used to be found in huge numbers in Marrickville and Leichhardt, but that hasn't been the case for a long time. Parramatta has gone the same way.
 
Last edited:

TheRam

First Grade
Messages
9,980
No, you were critical of our system and I was asking what would you change, and your answer is "Gus"

I think we are improving each year, slowly, but then again when you hit rock bottom the only way is up.

Dont forget Gus had a 5 year plan that took almost 10 years to implement at the Panthers and they only showed real improvement after he left. He has also spent time at the Dragons and I cant see any difference he has made to them. Personally, I can't see what all the fuss is about.
Yes, he overstepped his mark at the Panthers and had to go so as the squad and coach could get on with the business of playing the the coaches style and instruction. He has proven that he can't leave things alone. That is why you get him in to implement the plan and proper structures and then say "thanks mate, now bye bye".

As for going to the Dragon, no he didn't. He was asked to do a review of the whole coaching/club setup, that's all. And guess what they didn't like what he suggested and didn't follow through with it. It was to drastic for them. Go figure. Sometimes old habits die hard.
 
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