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Rumours and Stuff

Stevie

Juniors
Messages
1,760
I’m not attacking our coach but I feel like every set end around the 50m line is a mid field bomb. Like I’d count 10-15 a game. It’s just so damned predictable to me.

The same can be said for running across the field sideways from our halves every set and turning it inside to a running Nathan Brown or Paps.

I’m not trying to bash our team, but I genuinely think we have lots of talent but we are very predictable.

When we are not predictable it’s often something risky or foolish. We panic far too much for a top 4 NRL team.
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
67,541
Well OK then I was being very generous and @hindy111 was much closer to the mark when he said $250K max. He is a dud, and way to inconsistent to be giving him top $$$ and expecting him to give your team that purpose and stability a quality kicking/playmaking and solid defender should be able to do consistently well.
He won a premiership, he is good enough at the rare shit that team needs, but like any halfback, Townsend is only at his best when his team controls the ball and wins the ruck.
 

Chipmunk

Coach
Messages
12,901
They do run decoys, over 37 per game, but the Storm, Panthers (and Tigers) are running 50+ decoys per game. Why doesn't Arthur's tell our merkins to run 50 decoys instead of 37 ffs?!?


Perhaps you could've pointed out that the least amount of decoys runs by any team in the comp is 32 per game, by the team running second last. No team above us on the ladder does less than over 43 per game.

If the team running first and second are doing more than 50 decoy runs per game, then this would point to the fact that doing only 5 more decoy runs than the team running second last is probably not enough and we need to be doing more.

I'd be interested to know the number of decoy runs we do in every game, but they don't seem to publish this on NRL.com
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
67,541
Our players are f**king lazy FFS!!
We had toilers (we ran more decoys than the Storm in 2017), but we replaced those toilers to play the power game in 2019. Given our win rate since then I'd say it's been a success, but recruiting a certain type of player brings the opportunity cost of not recruiting other types. The Tigers still have plenty of toilers - they have been the only club in the top two for decoys for three straight seasons - but you'd hardly prefer to have their roster.
 

Chipmunk

Coach
Messages
12,901
Arthur should tell them to run 33% more decoys. Maybe he should just tell them to score more points?

Surely just having a better attack setup would result in more decoy runs in itself?

5 more decoy runs from Papali'i in the right areas would probably create 5 more opportunities to score tries alone.
 

Chipmunk

Coach
Messages
12,901
We had toilers (we ran more decoys than the Storm in 2017), but we replaced those toilers to play the power game in 2019. Given our win rate since then I'd say it's been a success, but recruiting a certain type of player brings the opportunity cost of not recruiting other types. The Tigers still have plenty of toilers - they have been the only club in the top two for decoys for three straight seasons - but you'd hardly prefer to have their roster.

The Tigpies clearly have significantly more deficiencies without the ball that is causing them the most problems.

Is it no surprise then that the Tigpies have scored the most points of any team outside the Top 6? Perhaps the number of decoys has something to do with that.
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
67,541
Perhaps you could've pointed out that the least amount of decoys runs by any team in the comp is 32 per game, by the team running second last. No team above us on the ladder does less than over 43 per game.

If the team running first and second are doing more than 50 decoy runs per game, then this would point to the fact that doing only 5 more decoy runs than the team running second last is probably not enough and we need to be doing more.

I'd be interested to know the number of decoy runs we do in every game, but they don't seem to publish this on NRL.com
The point is we are making decoy runs, so they're in the game plan. And we know it is because they are a classic effort area, which you merkins put shit on so often.
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
67,541
Surely just having a better attack setup would result in more decoy runs in itself?

5 more decoy runs from Papali'i in the right areas would probably create 5 more opportunities to score tries alone.
Sure, but a decoy runner also needs to be a legit running option, and Papali'i often seems to get the ball on those crash lines. That's a decision of the passer, not the coach.
 

Chipmunk

Coach
Messages
12,901
Sure, but a decoy runner also needs to be a legit running option, and Papali'i often seems to get the ball on those crash lines. That's a decision of the passer, not the coach.
It happens too often for it to be solely the decision of the passer. Particularly if the coaching staff felt that different options should have been taken.

Is there actually another player there in the play enough times to receive the ball otherwise for Papali'i to be a decoy? I'm not sure this as an option enough of the times giving the passer little choice. Is it is the players issue not for another option to be there enough of the time, or is it part of the setup?
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
67,541
It happens too often for it to be solely the decision of the passer. Particularly if the coaching staff felt that different options should have been taken.

Is there actually another player there in the play enough times to receive the ball otherwise for Papali'i to be a decoy? I'm not sure this as an option enough of the times giving the passer little choice. Is it is the players issue not for another option to be there enough of the time, or is it part of the setup?
Well it's not really Papali'i's main responsibility anyway. If you look at the individual stat leaders for decoys runs they are nearly all middle forwards: https://www.nrl.com/stats/players/?competition=111&season=2021&stat=1000002
 

Incorrect

First Grade
Messages
7,846
Tell you who I really would love back at the club, Tui Kamikamica. He has really grown in to his body since he left. Very solid first grader these days. Would be ahead of Kaufusi and Lane for a bench spot in our 17 I reckon
 

Chipmunk

Coach
Messages
12,901
Well it's not really Papali'i's main responsibility anyway. If you look at the individual stat leaders for decoys runs they are nearly all middle forwards: https://www.nrl.com/stats/players/?competition=111&season=2021&stat=1000002
Well the middle forwards is where the majority of the game is played so you would expect the top players on the list to be all middle forwards. Interestingly enough the Storm have five on the list of total decoys in the Top 50, but those five still only account for around half of their decoys, so the other half comes from I'd imagine the other edge forward and the two centres (and a mix of the other middles that come in and out of that Storm side).

Interestingly enough the Tigers two edge forwards appear in the Top 50, as does at least one edge forward from each of the the Top 5 sides. None of ours though.

When you look at the average decoys done by individual players per game, the Storm have 5 in the Top 50, Panthers 4, Sea Eagles 4, Rabbitohs 3, and us 2 (Junior and RCG). The other 4 all have an edge forward in there.

I'm certainly not saying it is Papali'i's responsibility, but it has become too predictable that he's going to be getting the ball and the defence is ready. We need to create other options around him in our setup so that someone else can get the ball and he becomes the decoy. If that can happen five times a game alone, then that will create more opportunities for sure. It seems a simple and small adjustment to me to our setup, that will have huge benefits.
 

emjaycee

Coach
Messages
10,304
Well the middle forwards is where the majority of the game is played so you would expect the top players on the list to be all middle forwards. Interestingly enough the Storm have five on the list of total decoys in the Top 50, but those five still only account for around half of their decoys, so the other half comes from I'd imagine the other edge forward and the two centres (and a mix of the other middles that come in and out of that Storm side).

Interestingly enough the Tigers two edge forwards appear in the Top 50, as does at least one edge forward from each of the the Top 5 sides. None of ours though.

When you look at the average decoys done by individual players per game, the Storm have 5 in the Top 50, Panthers 4, Sea Eagles, 4, Rabbitohs 3, and us 2 (Junior and RCG). The other 4 all have an edge forward in there.

I'm certainly not saying it is Papali'i's responsibility, but it has become too predictable that he's going to be getting the ball and the defence is ready. We need to create other options around him in our setup so that someone else can get the ball and he becomes the decoy. If that can happen five times a game alone, then that will create more opportunities for sure.
I have been saying for at least 2-3 years that we need more players moving "off the ball". I expected more in this area from Matto when we signed him actually.
 

Chipmunk

Coach
Messages
12,901
I have been saying for at least 2-3 years that we need more players moving "off the ball". I expected more in this area from Matto when we signed him actually.
Exactly - Bodies in motion...

Instead of front loading ALL of our effort into the collision, maybe we can save just a small amount of that by having bodies in motion, as you say "off the ball", that is just as an import "effort area", that I would imagine actually takes a lot less energy.
 

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