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Rumours and Stuff

T-Boon

Coach
Messages
13,065
Of course we're not the best, but if you think Arthur's is the reason you've got cause and effect around the wrong way. The reason we have a good coach rather than a great one is because we're not the best.
Are you saying you can only get a great coach if you are already a great club?
I think in hindsight we could have gotten Bennett at some point in the past decade if we just turned a dial up on our ambition as a club.
 

T-Boon

Coach
Messages
13,065
He's definitely up there. His only weakness is lack of experience, which is a significant weakness, but also one that tends to resolve itself over time.
He is also small even for hookers so has to make 60 tackles per game due to targeting and gets injured too much.
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
68,097
Are you saying you can only get a great coach if you are already a great club?
Like the Dragons and the Knights, we could probably get one by front loading our expenditure and chasing a huge dose of luck, but then we'd have to significantly reduce spending for several years to pay it off.
I think in hindsight we could have gotten Bennett at some point in the past decade if we just turned a dial up on our ambition as a club.
Why do that when it's been proven that:

1. Having Bennett is no guarantee of a premiership, and
2. Worse coaches than Arthur's have been able to win premierships with a good squad and some luck

We have a good squad and a good coach. Now we just need some luck, plus it's sustainable. There's no need to put all our eggs in one basket.
 

Angry_eel

First Grade
Messages
7,888
Are you saying you can only get a great coach if you are already a great club?
I think in hindsight we could have gotten Bennett at some point in the past decade if we just turned a dial up on our ambition as a club.
It's been proven that Bennett can't fix a broken clubs, look what he did to Newcastle. However, now would have been the right time to sign bennett as we're a good squad which needs that 1% chane to win the premiership.
 

Angry_eel

First Grade
Messages
7,888
Why do that when it's been proven that:

1. Having Bennett is no guarantee of a premiership, and
2. Worse coaches than Arthur's have been able to win premierships with a good squad and some luck

We have a good squad and a good coach. Now we just need some luck, plus it's sustainable. There's no need to put all our eggs in one basket.
Agreed. I like the Jim Sarantinos approach of a successful club rather than a 1 premiership one.

I was flabbergasted recently to remember than Paul Whatuira won two premierships but Hindy won none. How many people will remember Whatuira in 20 years?
 

Cloeel

Juniors
Messages
177
Agreed. I like the Jim Sarantinos approach of a successful club rather than a 1 premiership one.

I was flabbergasted recently to remember than Paul Whatuira won two premierships but Hindy won none. How many people will remember Whatuira in 20 years?


The current direction the club seems to be taking is a far more sustainable journey.

Not your crash diet, immediate success based on heaps of luck style situation. That results in some short term success and long term pain.
 
Messages
4,469
I see some similarities with what the Cowboys did 2011 -2017. Took 5 years of finals to make the GF which they won, experience got them to another 2 years later against more fancied teams (where they then pretended to be Parramatta and got toweled up by Melbourne). They have been woeful in the 4 years since then though.
Penrith have been building since 2016 when Cleary came into 1st grade, although they did have a aberration in 2019. Also made the grand final in their 5th year.
 

hineyrulz

Post Whore
Messages
125,507
The current direction the club seems to be taking is a far more sustainable journey.

Not your crash diet, immediate success based on heaps of luck style situation. That results in some short term success and long term pain.
Season 1 GIF by The Simpsons
 

lucablight

Bench
Messages
4,311
Feel free to come up with some objective measures of your own. I've given you two. You think our Origin representation in 2021 relative to other teams was meaningless, and also that our combined finals and Origin experience is likewise not indicative of anything. I'm keen to know if there are any objective measures at all that you could use to disprove my assertion that you overrate our players.
I don’t think there is a blanket objective measurement you can use to compare the quality of rosters. There are a number of factors that have to be considered and alot of them can’t be quantified. I tend to put more weight into talent whereas it seems like you like to measure in terms of origin appearances and finals experience. As I said before someone like McCullough has more origin experience than Mahoney but I would take the more talented player any day. Similarly Wighton played more origin games than Cody Walker this season but it doesn’t follow that he is a better five eighth than Walker. Similarly if you asked me to pick a halfback out of Mitchell Pearce and Sam Walker I would pick Walker any day despite Pearce having far superior origin and finals experience. It just shows how only using origin and finals experience isn’t necessarily a useful marker. I wouldn’t consider stats a be all and end all either but I like using them to make comparisons between players as well. When it comes to stats our forward pack is an elite level when it comes to yardage gain. This doesn’t really get talked about enough when it comes to how our team is rated. For a team to be so consistently winning the field position battle and only have a week 2 finals appearance to show for it is not good enough. It’s no surprise we don’t have strong origin representation when that’s the best we can do with our artillery. We even had a salary cap advantage over Penrith where they were paying us to have their players (which in turn gave us more cap space to spend on other players) yet they still did better than us. The only spine player who is far superior in their respective position at Penrith over ours is Luai over Brown. None of the other players are that much more talented. Yet somehow we should be content with them beating us 9 times out of 10? It’s nonsensical and disrespectful.
 

T-Boon

Coach
Messages
13,065
Like the Dragons and the Knights, we could probably get one by front loading our expenditure and chasing a huge dose of luck, but then we'd have to significantly reduce spending for several years to pay it off.
Why do that when it's been proven that:

1. Having Bennett is no guarantee of a premiership, and
2. Worse coaches than Arthur's have been able to win premierships with a good squad and some luck

We have a good squad and a good coach. Now we just need some luck, plus it's sustainable. There's no need to put all our eggs in one basket.

We have tried to win with ordinary to goodish coaching since Jack Gibson.
The one thing we haven't tried since Jack is putting all the chips into the greatest coach we can get. Last time we tried it (Jack Gibson) it worked well.
I also think that BA has had the same amount of luck as others (I guess you mean Flanagan and Madgigan) - Flanagan was def lucky.
Is there a theory that BA has been unlucky?
 
Messages
4,469
Is there a theory that BA has been unlucky?
There could be an argument made that BA has been unlucky. It's probably the difference between those on here who want him gone and those who think he's the best man for the job. Not everyone will agree with these but what else have we got to do till mid Feb;)
- 2015 Hayne pissed off in the off season. (I would argue this may have been more lucky than unlucky)
- 2016 salary cap scandal f**ked our season
- 2017 maybe overachieved but lost Gutho going into the finals. Will Smith was our fullback. Played Melbourne in the finals
- 2018 Hayne came back. Unlucky or dumb?
-2019 Played Melbourne in the finals.
-2020 Combo of back luck and poor resilience against Souths in the Semi
- 2021 Unlucky against Penrith. Best finals performance so far despite the loss. I still reckon if we fail next year his contact extension won't be worth the paper it's written on. Everything depends on how the player market shakes down imo. If we are rebuilding anyway, we may as well do it with a new coach.
 
Last edited:

hindy111

Immortal
Messages
41,637
We have tried to win with ordinary to goodish coaching since Jack Gibson.
The one thing we haven't tried since Jack is putting all the chips into the greatest coach we can get. Last time we tried it (Jack Gibson) it worked well.
I also think that BA has had the same amount of luck as others (I guess you mean Flanagan and Madgigan) - Flanagan was def lucky.
Is there a theory that BA has been unlucky?

He lucky Foran walked on contract or it would of been a heap of garbage year at 1.2mill. Same goes for Watmough. Best luck. A get out of jail free card x 2
 

SneakyEel

Juniors
Messages
244
There could be an argument made that BA has been unlucky. It's probably the difference between those on here who want him gone and those who think he's the best man for the job. Not everyone will agree with these but what else have we got to do till mid Feb;)
- 2015 Hayne pissed off in the off season. (I would argue this may have been more lucky than unlucky)
- 2016 salary cap scandal f**ked our season
- 2017 maybe overachieved but lost Gutho going into the finals. Will Smith was our fullback. Played Melbourne in the finals
- 2018 Hayne came back. Unlucky or dumb?
-2019 Played Melbourne in the finals.
-2020 Combo of back luck and poor resilience against Souths in the Semi
- 2021 Unlucky against Penrith. Best finals performance so far despite the loss. I still reckon if we fail next year his contact extension won't be worth the paper it's written on. Everything depends on how the player market shakes down imo. If we are rebuilding anyway, we may as well do it with a new coach.
I reckon in 2022 we go to another level. I really liked our attack in our last few games, saw plenty of passes from 6 to 7 to 1, lead to plenty of tries and created plenty of space and shape. Our defence on the edges was outstanding and with fergo gone will probably be even better. If Dunster, Dylan, Mahoney and Penisini improve and if our squad stay fit I don't see any reason we can't go all the way.
 

King-Gutho94

Juniors
Messages
879
wasnt hagan supposed to get us over the line.

And Ricky ?
Ricky was a fraud from the start sharkie fans that i know warned me when he signed with us he wasn't going to get us anywhere especially after he demolished them in 2009-2010 with some questionable decisions and coaching.

Some would say he still is he hasn't won a comp in 20 years and is protected specics from his News ltd mates who will defend him to hilt hence he is never under pressure.

Give me BA over sticky anyday
 

T-Boon

Coach
Messages
13,065
He lucky Foran walked on contract or it would of been a heap of garbage year at 1.2mill. Same goes for Watmough. Best luck. A get out of jail free card x 2

He also got lucky that the refereeing changed for the finals this season. It kept us from a probably de-boweling.
 

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