Rumours and Stuff

[King-Gutho94]

I have been giving it some thought (in mass of all places, so extra fuel for Gronks mockery) and i couldn’t help thinking this:

1) 2005 we got hammered 54-14 on Brisbane similar to this game and won the minor premiership;

2) 2007 we got hammered in Canberra and made a preliminary;

3) 2009 had many horrors;

4) 2019 had melbourne in magic round;

5) 2020 had south’s flogging us 38-0 at commbank;

6) 2021 had many horror including 56-10 against manly;

7) 2022 had cowboys in Darwin, bulldogs on queens birthday and Brisbane and souths at home

these are just from memory but a few conclusions can be drawn:

1) SOME hope can be drawn from the above results and the eventual resultant seasons;

2) BA is clearly not a coach capable of providing a team that can be consistently Good like Penrith or the Melbourne and Roosters teams that precede them - he just can’t achieve that consistency;

3) parrramattas best hope under BA for “success” is to just compete in the finals and try to lose honourably

4) based on 2 and 3 above, BA must be sacked - we need success to be a premiership and he just can’t achieve the team that is consistently and reliably good enough to do this…and to pre-empt Gronk, no I don’t know who will do it as his replacement, but I know from the above that he can’t do it, so it’s clearly time to move on

Sad part going through that is there is generally minimum one or two implosions per year from us. No matter where we end up including making a GF.

2016 was ironically the only season we kept fighting and scrapping over everything and that was when we had nothing to play for after losing 12 points and basically kicked out of the comp. We just had an implosions off-field instead on it.

We didnt concede 40 once that season and the second half of the year was a spare parts side that had been decimated mid-season - Foran walked out, Norman got himself suspended for the last 9 rounds, Peats had to go, Junior Paulo got shipped off to Canberra, Jennings got injured and missed about 4-5 games.

Yet in all of BA's tenure it was our best defensive effort over a 24 game season was 2016. When we had nothing to play for.

We had a better average in 2020 but was a 20 game season.

 

[emjaycee]

You sound more like someone standing near an aviary.

Yes/ no?

 

[Soren Lorenson]

I’m worried about Guthos knee. I think he is proper f**ked and every game he plays is only delaying the inevitable.

 

[pazzaeel]

No disrespect, but we have been picked apart by speed, Opposition score so often from inside their own half on breaks as we dont have the pace to run them down. What did the Dolphins fullback have that stood him apart from our lot, speed off the mark. They simply back up the half breaks , but then have the legs to go on with it. Apart from Simmonson, who would you trust to score a long range try, Penisini perhaps but not certain, that’s it.

The players with speed will always back up half breaks, as that’s their bread and butter so to speak.

Rogers and ONeil may well be asleep at the wheel, or fallen under the spell of the accountants value doctrine .

I agree with your post. I guess I was referring more to our ability to get momentum out of our own end (especially when the chips are down).

 

[Poupou Escobar]

But then the coaching staff keeps telling Talagi, "You're a centre. No, wait - you're a fullback. No, wait - you're a 5/8. No, wait - you're a benchie."

Hard to develop youngsters when you keep stuffing their position around.

His position in reserve grade shows he is seen as a fullback. But if he wants to play NRL he will need to display his utility value. I think this is pretty normal for youngsters whose strength is running the ball. When I first heard of Talagi he was playing in the halves in Harold Matts.

The club has seemingly looked to a "Moneyball"-type of recruitment strategy in the last few years, and it's beginning to show.

I think it began to show in 2019 when we started making the finals consistently for the first time in over a decade.

I have nothing against cheap, diamond in the rough signings, but is Arthur's success rate at turning them into quality First Graders that high?

Well how high should it be? Bellamy also signs a lot of nuffies who remain nuffies. The quality first graders are generally the ones you pay for, and we have plenty of those. The problem is they seem to be lower quality since 2022. That can be explained at least in part by their ages.

Brian Smith was a master at taking a cheapie from another club, and developing them into consistently solid players - Craig Stapleton, Daniel Wagon, Lee Hopkins, Jason Moodie, Brad Drew, Matthew Petersen...he just had a knack for getting the best out of average players.

Arthur has done well with blokes like Wicks, and Sivo, but that's pretty much it, off the top of my head - but he keeps dipping into that well.

Arthur has also gotten surprise performances out of:

Drown
Nrown
Gower
Gutherson
Hopgood
Lane
Mahoney
Ma'u
Moses
Niukore
Opacic
Papali'i
Penisini

But I agree Smith was the master of it. He was a brilliant coach.

 

[pazzaeel]

Don't focus on the opposition's 'amazing' backs, the cause is our plodding middle defence. I'm sure our own outside backs would also carve up against our middles.

you are probably right. Our forward pack definitely isn't what it used to be. everyone goes on about how good it is on paper? maybe 2-3 yrs ago. not now. we need some more young forwards (with less fear)

 

[Poupou Escobar]

I think Harper was signed to give R. Penisini, AMS and Blaize another year and to see what happened with Ethyn Martin's development. Staggs and Co were always staying in Brisbane I reckon.

And I agree, the young crop are 25/26 ready.

That will be exciting.

 

[Legal Eel]

I’m worried about Guthos knee. I think he is proper f**ked and every game he plays is only delaying the inevitable.

Was actually thinking about this as well

think the only hope to salvage any pride from this season may be to give gutho a month or two to recover and give reg a months personal lwace

we cop a few more hidings and hopefully set sail with a fit squad around June

 

[Poupou Escobar]

I dunno, I'm just a dopey supporter. But how will the young crop be ready in 25/26 when they're consistently getting pumped in 23/24?

Getting belted doesn't hurt their development. That's a fallacy.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Well then someone at the club isn't doing their job if that's the reason...

Or do we just lack the people who do that at other clubs? I don't think it's members of staff who are responsible for putting this together. It's all offered by existing networks of patrons.

Blaming 'someone at the club' for this is like saying it's somebody's fault that clubs like Canberra and Cronulla have so few fans.

 

[gaffer]

And we have a HoF that refuses to go above a ceiling of a pre-conceived idea he has in his head on the value of players is, regardless of their quality and how much we need them.

he is letting his personal opinions cloud what our club needs. Thats counter productive to us being successful.

maybe he's a manchurian candidate for the tiges

 

[Poupou Escobar]

You really have lost the plot and continue to just troll for the sake of it.

That's sad.

 

[pazzaeel]

Reading that interview with Duffman Bea Arthur is a save as houses, the people on club have no idea and are in complete denial. Jagging Lomax is some sort of silver bullet apparently.

what would you expect him to say? especially to Buzzzzzz? dont get me wrong, I don't particularly rate the board , but what they says to the media and what is actually happening are likely to be two different things. he isn't going to bag the team and the coach to a national media outlet. where will that get us?

 

[Poupou Escobar]

What were they?

We sacked the coach, didn't we?

 

[Poupou Escobar]

So all we need is a building and everything will be fine?

It worked for the Panthers: https://www.penrithpanthers.com.au/news/2016/03/30/panthers-open-$22-million-academy/

Where else are we going to keep our stable of Thai kickboxers and Polynesian outside backs?

 

[JokerEel]

Or do we just lack the people who do that at other clubs? I don't think it's members of staff who are responsible for putting this together. It's all offered by existing networks of patrons.

Blaming 'someone at the club' for this is like saying it's somebody's fault that clubs like Canberra and Cronulla have so few fans.

If we lack the people then someone isn't doing their job like I said....

 

[gaffer]

But then the coaching staff keeps telling Talagi, "You're a centre. No, wait - you're a fullback. No, wait - you're a 5/8. No, wait - you're a benchie."

Hard to develop youngsters when you keep stuffing their position around.

The club has seemingly looked to a "Moneyball"-type of recruitment strategy in the last few years, and it's beginning to show.

I have nothing against cheap, diamond in the rough signings, but is Arthur's success rate at turning them into quality First Graders that high?

Brian Smith was a master at taking a cheapie from another club, and developing them into consistently solid players - Craig Stapleton, Daniel Wagon, Lee Hopkins, Jason Moodie, Brad Drew, Matthew Petersen...he just had a knack for getting the best out of average players.

Arthur has done well with blokes like Wicks, and Sivo, but that's pretty much it, off the top of my head - but he keeps dipping into that well.

i'd like to see smith back at our club in some role maybe HOF

 

[JokerEel]

We sacked the coach, didn't we?

Your telling the story. What were the changes?

 

[Poupou Escobar]

2) BA is clearly not a coach capable of providing a team that can be consistently Good like Penrith or the Melbourne and Roosters teams that precede them - he just can’t achieve that consistency;

Cleary couldn't either, until late in his career (longer than Arthur has been coaching) he found his way back to Penrith. After one bad season (2019) it's been nothing but consistency.

 

[yy_cheng]

"players not responding to arthurs coachin " is that code for he's lost the dressing shed

They're sick of chasing the collision and getting no result.