Rumours and Stuff

[emjaycee]

While none of us are in the rooms and relevant discussions to have absolute knowledge, what we do know is that a coach has been in place for 11 years. He's one of the longest tenured coaches in NRL history who hasn't won a premiership (I think only Smith, Murray and Nathan Brown have coached more games without a premiership - and none has had as long a stint at the same club).

If the type of squad he wants means we have consistent problems out wide, then that's a problem.
I'm not so sure that our squad is the biggest issue - good players will do what they are told to do, and it appears we have a particular style of play (blind Freddy can see it) - we play both a dour attacking style, which opens up into a game full of flair at times. Our attack is fine (IMO), but the defensive structures are lacking.

If you parachute a Wayne Bennett in for a couple of years, the squad will have a red-hot tilt at a premiership. I think Wayne would probably show Paulo the door (he doesn't like highly paid props - all coaches have their preferences for spending), but we'd need quite a bit to get over the hump with the squad (as currently assembled).

So all in all - I dunno. As you say, these things are difficult. But Brad isn't the answer next year - and he has the squad he wants to play his style of footy. It's not working.

(what I don't see helping rationale discussion is people asking for his sacking because he is bald, and others saying it's all the players fault).

Great comments and nice to have a rational response for a change.
I bolded all the bits I agree with.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

I didn’t know Politis was the Panthers chairman.

Yeah we should sign the Panthers chairman if we can't get Politis.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Money teams already spend

But not all the same amounts: https://www.penrithpanthers.com.au/news/2022/05/02/panthers-reveal-the-price-of-success/

 

[Poupou Escobar]

I believe he said that he just told him that he needed to bide his time and that the opportunities elsewhere would be no greater than at Penrith

Also, how would you know what we pay management and coaching staff - it is entirely possible that we pay them more than the panthers pay their staff - it may just be that the panthers guys have done a better job

We know the Panthers spent $17M in 2019: https://www.penrithpanthers.com.au/news/2022/05/02/panthers-reveal-the-price-of-success/

While our total football spend that year was $10M: https://www.parraleagues.com.au/annual-report/

In fact our spend in 2023 (our highest ever) was still only $12.5M

In fact, Matt Cameron started at Penrith in a junior development role before transitioning to a management role - MON was sourced and appointed in this specific role, so it is likely he costs more

That doesn't imply any likelihood at all. If we aren't spending as much as them it means we are likely spending less for each given staff role.

 

[Glenneel]

Everyone’s doing their best mate, including me.

No you're doing your mediocre best as you love mediocrity and keep advocating for it in all your posts. Like those at the top of the club, as long as we're close to top 8 they're happy, your happy but the fans are not!

There is no evidence that Parra are talking to Bennett let alone any other coach but waiting to see where the club is at end of season. Wtf! We're near the bottom and that'll be where we'll be at season's end. Everything is broken, and has been for some time, and we're sitting on our hands. Waiting for what? We need a strong coach that'll start a top down change to the way we operate to ensure the optimum performance of the footy team. Atm everything is done at snail's pace and that includes the club's players so no wonder we're where we are, rooted! near the bottom of the pack.

 

[Legal Eel]

We know the Panthers spent $17M in 2019: https://www.penrithpanthers.com.au/news/2022/05/02/panthers-reveal-the-price-of-success/

While our total football spend that year was $10M: https://www.parraleagues.com.au/annual-report/

In fact our spend in 2023 (our highest ever) was still only $12.5M

That doesn't imply any likelihood at all. If we aren't spending as much as them it means we are likely spending less for each given staff role.

Happy to concede they spend more on their football program.

I do not believe Matt Cameron would have cost more than Mark O'Neill at the time of their appointments to their latest positions - he MAY cost more now after years of success. My point is that we could easily have paid Matt Cameron to be our HOF when we engaged MON - but we didn't. We had previously had Matt Cameron in our systems and didn't see his worth - to be frank, I know for a fact we let him go even before BA was coach.

Two things to take out of this:

1) Hindsight is 20/20 - granted, the club made a decision to hire MON, which at the time may have been entirely justifiable;

2) They made the wrong decision - you can say those words can't you?

Whilst it may not solve anything to dwell on the wrong decision, it is worth noting that it is one of many missteps in the past few years.

Pre-empting your "Covid set us back" argument, last time I checked Covid did not only hit the Parramatta area, it was a worldwide thing, so every club dealt with Covid- and many of them dealt better without our "resources" of a massive junior and membership base.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Does Pou know?

They love playing together so much Lussick f**ked off to the UK!

 

[Happy MEel]

You’re using my peanuts now?

It’s a quality term. How about I credit you.
Credit: Hindy111

 

[yy_cheng]

Our attack is fine (IMO),

That's fair in your opinion.

I disagree in that we can't really score in the opposition 20. It's been like this for years.

We can camp ourselves there and nothing comes out of it. So we only lead by a try or so after that long encampment.

Then the tide swings and the opposition camps themselves in our 20 and score quite easily... yes .. due to our crap defence.

So if we could convert the camping into points, we would do much better.

At the moment, it is really, throw it to Sivo, crash play over, dummy half dig or kick on the 5th.
The others are all due to individual talent and skills which doesnt always work.

There were times we put on really good plays... mainly when Rheed was here... Passes to Matto and Junz who would turn around like a run around and pass it back... plays including Lane ... Junz to Reg etc

But we don't see them week in week out. They should be practiced and honed and used over and over.

 

[TheRam]

He looked the most ready of the crop coming through. Missed some tackles in the second half when we played with 12 for 20 mins, but otherwise seemed a good prospect

He look sh*t to me and I said so too.

 

[hineyrulz]

While none of us are in the rooms and relevant discussions to have absolute knowledge, what we do know is that a coach has been in place for 11 years. He's one of the longest tenured coaches in NRL history who hasn't won a premiership (I think only Smith, Murray and Nathan Brown have coached more games without a premiership - and none has had as long a stint at the same club).

If the type of squad he wants means we have consistent problems out wide, then that's a problem.
I'm not so sure that our squad is the biggest issue - good players will do what they are told to do, and it appears we have a particular style of play (blind Freddy can see it) - we play both a dour attacking style, which opens up into a game full of flair at times. Our attack is fine (IMO), but the defensive structures are lacking.

If you parachute a Wayne Bennett in for a couple of years, the squad will have a red-hot tilt at a premiership. I think Wayne would probably show Paulo the door (he doesn't like highly paid props - all coaches have their preferences for spending), but we'd need quite a bit to get over the hump with the squad (as currently assembled).

So all in all - I dunno. As you say, these things are difficult. But Brad isn't the answer next year - and he has the squad he wants to play his style of footy. It's not working.

(what I don't see helping rationale discussion is people asking for his sacking because he is bald, and others saying it's all the players fault).

FFS!! It's disgraceful how many people keep overlooking this.

 

[Gazzamatta]

Great comments and nice to have a rational response for a change.
I bolded all the bits I agree with.

Yup!
That said I dont believe our attack is ok. I think we were on the right track for a while when Barrett arrived but that was quickly abandoned. Ive been off Barlow since he got owned in the GF. His issues appear fixable but thats not happening under our current set up.
Hopefully time is up (f'n finally).

 

[TheRam]

Call his bluff. As previously mentioned, the Knights have a glut of talented fullbacks coming through. Cant keep them all. Blaize has shown nothing at fullback and isn't even the Cup FB.
Add Connor Votano to the previous list.

WOW! This kid can play.

He is the complete package for a ball playing fullback/centre. His pass selection and handling is really really impressive for such a young kid and he can run too. His big strong and fast with real footy talent/brains not just an athlete like so many of our players but who have no real footy brains and are so often shown up when promoted to NRL level.

This is the type of kid I would pay big bucks for. We can negotiate from November with him so I would be going all out for him. I mean everyone else seems to be able to pilfer our junior stocks no worries, so we should be smart enough to identify a quality kid the likes I haven't seen in our lower grades for quite some time and pounce while we can.

We need a rebuild and this kid should go right up the top of the list of the juniors at other clubs that we should be targeting. Blaize Talagi may or may not make it, he has natural talent and is what I call superior athlete which is what gives him his edge in the lower grades, but as we all know you need more then that to be a quality NRL player. Connor Votano for mine is the type of kid that has athleticism but also a footy brain to match. His hands and pass selection is already like a quality half/5/8th. If he has the tenacity and drive he will be a star of the highest order. I don't think physicality will be an issue with this kid like it is for Blaize.

Are we the type of club that can close the deal with such a talent? I mean he is behind Kalyn Ponga for fu*k sake in his preferred position. We can offer this kid NRL status in the centres from next season and fullback from 2026. How hard can it be to give the kid an upgrade on his current contract and an almost guaranteed NRL birth within a year or two starting on Sivo's former wing spot and then one in to the centres before taking over from Gutho permanently?

I would even use the money we are offering Blaize(since he is holding out) to get him. I think he is way better and the odds of him making it are much higher then Blaize.

 

[emjaycee]

Yup!
That said I dont believe out attack is ok. I think we were on the right track for a while when Barrett arrived but that was quickly abandoned. Ive been off Barlow since he got owned in the GF. His issues appear fixable but thats not happening under our current set up.
Hopefully time is up (f'n finally).

I think we started leaking points so badly in D that BA decided we couldn't afford to risk turnovers with our attack and so backed us off what had been working under Barrett's initial guidance.

 

[emjaycee]

WOW! This kid can play.

He is the complete package for a ball playing fullback/centre. His pass selection and handling is really really impressive for such a young kid and he can run too. His big strong and fast with real footy talent/brains not just an athlete like so many of our players but who have no real footy brains and are so often shown up when promoted to NRL level.

This is the type of kid I would pay big bucks for. We can negotiate from November with him so I would be going all out for him. I mean everyone else seems to be able to pilfer our junior stocks no worries, so we should be smart enough to identify a quality kid the likes I haven't seen in our lower grades for quite some time and pounce while we can.

We need a rebuild and this kid should go right up the top of the list of the juniors at other clubs that we should be targeting. Blaize Talagi may or may not make it, he has natural talent and is what I call superior athlete which is what gives him his edge in the lower grades, but as we all know you need more then that to be a quality NRL player. Connor Votano for mine is the type of kid that has athleticism but also a footy brain to match. His hands and pass selection is already like a quality half/5/8th. If he has the tenacity and drive he will be a star of the highest order. I don't think physicality will be an issue with this kid like it is for Blaize.

Are we the type of club that can close the deal with such a talent? I mean he is behind Kalyn Ponga for fu*k sake in his preferred position. We can offer this kid NRL status in the centres from next season and fullback from 2026. How hard can it be to give the kid an upgrade on his current contract and an almost guaranteed NRL birth within a year or two starting on Sivo's former wing spot and then one in to the centres before taking over from Gutho permanently?

I would even use the money we are offering Blaize(since he is holding out) to get him. I think he is way better and the odds of him making it are much higher then Blaize.

What would we do with Lomax if we offered this kid a centre spot until Gutho's retirement?

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Everything is broken, and has been for some time

We just spent four straight years in the finals ffs. Last year we missed out by one win. Suddenly the whole club needs to be blown up? Stop catastrophising you pissweak merkins. You make me f**king sick.

 

[TheCrowe]

What would we do with Lomax if we offered this kid a centre spot until Gutho's retirement?

He can also play wing.
Knights fans love him but he is fourth in line behind Ponga.

 

[Gazzamatta]

I think we started leaking points so badly in D that BA decided we couldn't afford to risk turnovers with our attack and so backed us off what had been working under Barrett's initial guidance.

Sounds a reasonable assumption mate. The other option would have been to evolve our D. Regretably that has proved impossible under the current watch.
Its time mate.
Who's your preference?
I see a few are jumping on my suggestion months ago to consider Peter Wallace. He, in combination with Wayne, would be outstanding but I reckon Bennett is millions to one. Wayne would like our roster but Im thinking our head office might frighten him and in turn our head office probably wouldnt want Wayne controlling them. Hed call a spade a spade no doubt.
Failing all that Chieka or Holbrook again with Wallace supporting.
We need a succession plan. All good businesses make it a priority. Sadly we dont consider this unless they see Barrett or Cayless as heir apparent?

 

[Happy MEel]

I think we started leaking points so badly in D that BA decided we couldn't afford to risk turnovers with our attack and so backed us off what had been working under Barrett's initial guidance.

I think we’re leaking even more points now. We may as well go back to a genuine attack and at least get half of the game heading in the right direction.

 

[yy_cheng]

I think we started leaking points so badly in D that BA decided we couldn't afford to risk turnovers with our attack and so backed us off what had been working under Barrett's initial guidance.

defo. but that was early 2023... and our defense has not improved.