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Rumsfeld-Is this Guy Playing With A Full Deck?

Willow

Assistant Moderator
Messages
108,127
Thats interesting El. Thanks for that.
We shouldnt forget thatAmbassadors arerepresenting the view of their government andthe job of an Ambassador is to supposed to about diplomacy first.
They are not supposed to tell the host country what to do within the Parlaiment. IMO, Schieffer crossed the line.
<hr>
Iraqi ambassador offers olive branch
August 13 2002&lt;/DATE>
<br clear=all>&lt;BOD> The relationship between Iraq and Australia was not irreparable despite the federal government's strong anti-Iraq rhetoric, Iraq's ambassador to Australia said today. <hr>
It seems to me that the article focuses more on trade between Iraq and Australia.

There's nothing in the article to say that Iraq are telling Australian Politicians what to say... thats what annoyed me about the US Ambassador's attitude... at the very least, Schieffer is an arrogant prick... He seems to think that the US Embassy areour Thought Police.

I saw him on the TV being interviewed the other night. First the interview focussed on the views of an CIA operative who basically said the war was all about oil and money.

And then they gave the US ambassador a chance. The first thing Schieffersaid was that he had never heard of the previous talker and questioned his very existence as being ex-CIA. The interviewer, Kerry OBrien gave details of the research that had been done and repeated the guy's credentials. Schieffer was proven wrong but simply said, 'well I've never heard of him.... all he was giving you was his opinion'.

Well bugger me if opinion is a crime. Schieffer's style is to simply discredit opposing view by stating that it never existed in the first place... when trying to describe this bloke,the word 'facism' springs to mind.
Needless to say that set the tone for the rest of the segmentwith Schieffer telling more porkies than a used-car salesman.

AndSchieffer is telling the pollies what to say... piss him off back to Washington. Theguy is a total disgrace.
 

Gav-bt

Juniors
Messages
572
Are the Merkins slowly losing the initiative?

1 million marched through London yesterday, tens of thousands more marched through other British cities.

The vast majority of the UK public are against Bush and that includes my parents and their friends, people who are used to war. I don't know anyone who is in favour of this madness, including a mate (Who I met for the first time in 20 years recently) who served to terms in Ulster.

What did Dubya do in Vietnam?
 

Dog_Fan

Juniors
Messages
4
The major reason I support military action against Iraq is simple: if the United States does not gain military control of the Middle East--and soon--that region will be the scene of a terrible war, a bloodbath rivaling World War I or World War II. Such a war will leave several million people dead, devastate a vital region of the world and undoubtedly drag in the United States and other countries. It would be a war that could leave tens of thousands of Americans dead, and produce many more casualties than Bush's projected attack on Iraq.
Virtually all of the Arab regimes in the Middle East are at or close to a point of collapse. The Arabs have not shared in the massive wave of economic prosperity that has swept the world over the last two decades. Arab governments remain wedded to discredited ideas of command economies and political oppression like those which devastated the Communist world. Political unrest is growing in the Arab world and Islamic radicalism is spreading. In the next few years we could see Arab regimes in Syria, Saudi Arabia, the Gulf States, Jordan, Iraq and possibly Egypt overthrown and replaced by radical Islamic regimes.
Such regimes would launch an all-out war with Israel and probably create Middle Eastern killing fields to rival those of 1970s Cambodia. As in Afghanistan they would be training grounds for terrorists who would launch an all-out attack on the US and Europe and stage dozen of September 11th type atrocities. These new terrorists might be armed with weapons of mass destruction.
If this isn't bad enough, some of the nations in the Middle East might take drastic action if they saw the area falling into complete chaos. If Iraq were shown to be developing a nuclear bomb, or Saudi Arabia was about to fall to Islamic terrorists, Israel might launch a preemptive nuclear strike against Riddyah or Bagdad and kill millions. Turkey, Egypt and Iran might invade the Arab nations to bring radical Moslem regimes to heel. Iraq might take advantage of Islamic revolution in Saudi Arabia to invade that nation.
The possibilities for chaos and bloodshed in the Middle East are endless and there's only force on Earth capable of controlling that volatile region: the United States of America. Quite simply there can be no serious hope for peace in the Middle East without a large American military presence in that region. There is no way that we can control the Middle East while Saddam Hussein is in power in Bagdad and Iraq is stockpiling weapons of mass destruction.
The Middle East today is much like Europe after World War I. The United States, after helping the British and French defeat and destroy Imperial Germany, pulled out. The result was a dangerous power vacuum which was filled by Nazi Germany. This led eventually to World War II and the Holocaust. After World War II, when America decided, wisely, to stay in Europe for the long haul, Europe remained at peace for fifty years. A similar situation occurred in Southeast Asia: when the United States pulled out of that region in 1975, the result was disaster. Communist North Vietnam invaded and occupied its neighbors, South Vietnam and Laos, and the weak military regime in Cambodia was overthrown by the homicidal Khemar Rouge. The result was a bloodbath in Cambodia in which three million people died and a wave of Communist oppression from which that region has never recovered.
So there are very good reasons for the United States to move against Iraq and invade the Middle East. Among them, securing the oil fields and preventing worse violence
 

imported_JoeD

Juniors
Messages
653
The United States, after helping the British and French defeat and destroy Imperial Germany, pulled out.

A similar situation occurred in Southeast Asia: when the United States pulled out of that region in 1975

Notice how on both occasions america was involved in the first place and in the second example it was their initial involvement that caused the problems not the fact that they pulled out.

If Iraq were shown to be developing a nuclear bomb, or (if) Saudi Arabia was about to fall to Islamic terrorists, Israel might launch a preemptive nuclear strike against Riddyah or Bagdad and kill millions. Turkey, Egypt and Iran might invade the Arab nations to bring radical Moslem regimes to heel. Iraq might take advantage of Islamic revolution in Saudi Arabia to invade that nation.

How many if's and might's do you want?


 

Willow

Assistant Moderator
Messages
108,127
<span><span>“Disgracefully it has taken Gaddafi’s regime 15 years to accept Libyan ‘general responsibility’ for the murder of WPC Yvonne Fletcher who was shot dead outside the Libyan Embassy in London in 1984, while policing a demonstration against Gaddafi,’ he said. “Yet her killer still hasn’t been brought to justice.”</span></span>
<span></span>
He seems to haveselected anindividual case while ignoring the background of events that lead up to the crime taking place.

I'm not sure what Gaddaffi's credentials have to do withan attack on Iraqnor doI understand the link to'starving millions in Zimbabwe' either. Robert Magabe and Colonel Gaddaffi are two different people. Neither have great records in the eyes of the world but then again, the same can be said for a few Presidents of the USA.... including the current one.

It seems unfortunate that the writer doesnteven beginning toaddress the USA's human rights record and their appalling foreign policy. IMO, the US and UKhave nomore rights than anyone elsewhen it comes to taking the moral high ground.
 
L

legend

Guest
Ahh yes, that's right Saddam and Gaddafi are the good guys in all this. I forgot.

Don't you think that the UN appointing a madman like Gaddafi as Chairman for human rights is like appointing Hitler as a Rabbi of the local Synagogue?

If I was the U.S, I wouldn't pay my bills either. The UN are about as useful as tits on a bull. Why should the US pander to extremists who use the UN as some type of sanctuary against persecution? The sooner America gets this show on the road and restores order the better off we will be. The U.N are the ultimate paper tiger.

Willow, you just said neither Mugabe or Gaddafi have great records. Deplorable in fact.Then why appoint one to such a position of power within the U.N? I'd like to hear a rational explanation on this one.

I applaud the Govt's stance on all of this. They haven't backed down and nor should they and now Iraq realises it will need our wheat when the going gets tough meanwhile Crean gets lost in the mire of fencesitting and backflips.

That's the type of diplomacy I like to see.
 
L

legend

Guest
As many would have you believe, this is just a one way street. Well I have supplied a few links to balance the argument so all you bleeding hearts can make up your own mind. It takes two to tango.

<table cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 width="100%" border=0> <tbody> <tr> <td valign=top align=left width=12 bgcolor=#ffffff rowspan=2>
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</td> <td valign=top align=left bgcolor=#ffffff rowspan=2> <table width="100%" bgcolor=#cc9933 border=0> <tbody> <tr> <td> &lt;&lt;Back</td> <td> &lt;news&gt;</td> <td>&lt;reports&gt;</td> <td align=right>More&gt;&gt;</td></tr></tbody></table> <hr color=#336666> <center>Iraq</center>Act Now - Sign our petition to the President of the UN Security Council
Annual report entries;2002, 2001, 2000, 1999, 1998, 1997
View all Iraq documents (please note this index may be large and take a while to download) <hr>
<table> <tbody> <tr valign=top> <td colspan=2> <table cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 border=0> <tbody> <tr valign=top> <td> </td> <td>News</td></tr></tbody></table></td> <td></td></tr> <tr valign=top> <td></td> <td>
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<a target=_top href="http://web.amnesty.org/ai.nsf/Index/MDE140172003?OpenDocument&amp;of=COUNTRIES\IRAQ">11/02/2003 United Nations/Iraq: Security Council scared to face up to the human toll of conflict in Iraq</a></td> <td>
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<a target=_top href="http://web.amnesty.org/ai.nsf/Index/MDE140032003?OpenDocument&amp;of=COUNTRIES\IRAQ">30/01/2003 Iraq : Camp David Summit must recognize international responsibility for Iraqi human rights</a></td> <td>
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<a target=_top href="http://web.amnesty.org/ai.nsf/Index/MDE140022003?OpenDocument&amp;of=COUNTRIES\IRAQ">26/01/2003 Iraq: Secretary General challenges Powell</a></td> <td>
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<a target=_top href="http://web.amnesty.org/ai.nsf/Index/MDE140312002?OpenDocument&amp;of=COUNTRIES\IRAQ">02/12/2002 Iraq: UK government dossier on human rights abuses</a></td> <td>
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<a target=_top href="http://web.amnesty.org/ai.nsf/Index/EUR180022002?OpenDocument&amp;of=COUNTRIES\IRAQ">22/11/2002 Denmark/Iraq: International Justice for the victims of Halabja</a></td> <td>
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<a target=_top href="http://web.amnesty.org/ai.nsf/Index/MDE140172002?OpenDocument&amp;of=COUNTRIES\IRAQ">21/10/2002 Iraq : Release of political prisoners welcomed but much remains to be done</a></td> <td>
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<a target=_top href="http://web.amnesty.org/ai.nsf/Index/MDE140112002?OpenDocument&amp;of=COUNTRIES\IRAQ">25/09/2002 Iraq: Human rights in the balance</a></td> <td>
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<a target=_top href="http://web.amnesty.org/ai.nsf/Index/MDE140102002?OpenDocument&amp;of=COUNTRIES\IRAQ">24/09/2002 Iraq: Secretary General asks UN Security Council to ensure that force is the last resort</a></td> <td>
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<a target=_top href="http://web.amnesty.org/ai.nsf/Index/MDE140092002?OpenDocument&amp;of=COUNTRIES\IRAQ">12/09/2002 USA/Iraq : Not in the name of human rights </a></td> <td>
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<a target=_top href="http://web.amnesty.org/ai.nsf/Index/MDE180052002?OpenDocument&amp;of=COUNTRIES\IRAQ">03/05/2002 Lebanon: Amnesty International reiterates its concerns on the situation of refugees and asylum-seekers</a></td> <td>
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<a target=_top href="http://web.amnesty.org/ai.nsf/Index/MDE010062001?OpenDocument&amp;of=COUNTRIES\IRAQ">30/08/2001 Middle East/North Africa: Day of the "disappeared" - Time to tell the whole truth</a></td> <td>
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<a target=_top href="http://web.amnesty.org/ai.nsf/Index/MDE140122001?OpenDocument&amp;of=COUNTRIES\IRAQ">15/08/2001 Iraq: Stop the torture</a></td> <td>
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<a target=_top href="http://web.amnesty.org/ai.nsf/Index/MDE230102001?OpenDocument&amp;of=COUNTRIES\IRAQ">04/07/2001 Saudi Arabia: The forgotten Iraqi refugess in Rafha</a></td> <td>
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<a target=_top href="http://web.amnesty.org/ai.nsf/Index/MDE140042001?OpenDocument&amp;of=COUNTRIES\IRAQ">05/04/2001 Iraq: Relentless executions must end</a></td> <td>
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<a target=_top href="http://web.amnesty.org/ai.nsf/Index/MDE140032001?OpenDocument&amp;of=COUNTRIES\IRAQ">29/03/2001 Iraq: The fate of 106 religious clerics and students still unknown after ten years</a></td> <td>
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<a target=_top href="http://web.amnesty.org/ai.nsf/Index/MDE140012001?OpenDocument&amp;of=COUNTRIES\IRAQ">16/02/2001 Iraq: US and UK bombing of Baghdad</a></td> <td>
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<a target=_top href="http://web.amnesty.org/ai.nsf/Index/MDE140131999?OpenDocument&amp;of=COUNTRIES\IRAQ">24/11/1999 Iraq: Amnesty International exposes recent abuses</a></td> <td>
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<a target=_top href="http://web.amnesty.org/ai.nsf/Index/MDE140071999?OpenDocument&amp;of=COUNTRIES\IRAQ">17/08/1999 Iraq: Amnesty International's position concerning possible legal proceedings against a high ranking Iraqi official in Austria</a></td> <td>
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<a target=_top href="http://web.amnesty.org/ai.nsf/Index/MDE140061999?OpenDocument&amp;of=COUNTRIES\IRAQ">28/07/1999 Iraq: UN Security Council considers the Humanitarian Panel's report on sanctions</a></td> <td>
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<a target=_top href="http://web.amnesty.org/ai.nsf/Index/MDE140011999?OpenDocument&amp;of=COUNTRIES\IRAQ">23/02/1999 Iraq: Amnesty International condemns the killing of Ayatollah Mohammas Sadeq al-Sadr and urges independent investigation</a></td> <td>
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<a target=_top href="http://web.amnesty.org/ai.nsf/Index/MDE140071998?OpenDocument&amp;of=COUNTRIES\IRAQ">17/12/1998 Iraq: Amnesty International says governments must protect civilian life</a></td> <td>
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<a target=_top href="http://web.amnesty.org/ai.nsf/Index/MDE140061998?OpenDocument&amp;of=COUNTRIES\IRAQ">16/12/1998 Iraq: Amnesty International appeals to the US and UK governments over fear of indiscriminate killings of civilians in Iraq </a></td> <td>
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<a target=_top href="http://web.amnesty.org/ai.nsf/Index/MDE140041998?OpenDocument&amp;of=COUNTRIES\IRAQ">13/11/1998 Iraq: Amnesty International demands that protection of civilians be paramount</a></td> <td>
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<a target=_top href="http://web.amnesty.org/ai.nsf/Index/MDE140021998?OpenDocument&amp;of=COUNTRIES\IRAQ">29/04/1998 Iraq: Expulsion of Kurdish families must stop</a></td> <td>
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<a target=_top href="http://web.amnesty.org/ai.nsf/Index/MDE140071996?OpenDocument&amp;of=COUNTRIES\IRAQ">03/09/1996 Northern Iraq: Reports of human rights violations could be start of purge of opposition groups by Iraqi government</a></td> <td>
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<a target=_top href="http://web.amnesty.org/ai.nsf/Index/NWS210092002?OpenDocument&amp;of=COUNTRIES\IRAQ">01/11/2002 The Wire: November 2002. Vol.32, No.09.</a></td> <td>
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<a target=_top href="http://web.amnesty.org/ai.nsf/Index/ACT530012002?OpenDocument&amp;of=COUNTRIES\IRAQ">01/02/2002 Death Penalty News December 2001</a></td> <td>
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<a target=_top href="http://web.amnesty.org/ai.nsf/Index/NWS210082001?OpenDocument&amp;of=COUNTRIES\IRAQ">01/10/2001 The Wire, October 2001. Vol.31, No.7.</a></td> <td>
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