Sack Adam O'Brien

[Woosh]

Honestly I think our current problem is more the lack of on field leadership. We've been missing it for a long time. We're a team of nobodies in that regard.

I thought Frizell played well in the two games he was captain.
Co-captain with Gagai would’ve been my choice.
The successful teams the last few years all had co-captains (Panthers, Storm, Roosters)

 

[PhilGould]

Not ready to chase AOB out of town, yet. Gardner has proven to be proactive in this area before though. He was already looking for and talking to potential replacements for Brown before he was moved on. If Gardner/Buderus see someone they think will do a better job then go for it.

Kristian Woolf would be the obvious replacement, but will probably be linked to every gig that pops up so may not be available too long. Wouldn't want Flanagan, Green or Toovey anywhere near the club. Ciraldo & Ryles are the 2 new 'can't miss' future head coaches. The issue is they often do miss when finally running their own team.

I could see Gardner being desperate enough to throw big money at an established coach. Bellamy, Robinson & Cleary won't leave so my left field name would be Des Hasler. Somewhat polarising but has had success everywhere he's gone and has already left Manly for more money once before.

 

[Yosh]

I would jump on Woolf. We'rent we linked with him before for the head job?

I know many people hate Flanagan but I personall like a redemption story. I would sell my soul for a premiership and success so...

Ciraldo seems to be next big thing. He was treated nicely here when he was a player right?

 

[Jono078]

I still think the town itself is the problem. The bubble, the special treatment/local stardom, etc. The reason why locals worked out in the past is they found motivation outside of and beyond that and were self-driven. The rest just get comfy in the bubble and enjoy a nice day at the beach or game of golf the next day after a loss.

I've written huge posts on it in the past... and nothing has changed my opinion. Newcastle is just an easy place to coast along in.

What's the solution? Can't just cop this the rest of my life and never see Newcastle win a premiership again.

I really do feel we're on the right track but the last couple of weeks and some bad injury luck is bringing up traumas of the past for most of us.

This season certainly isn't a write-off by any means and there's still promising signs amongst the crap we've seen this month.

 

[AyiosYiorgos]

Not ready to chase AOB out of town, yet. Gardner has proven to be proactive in this area before though. He was already looking for and talking to potential replacements for Brown before he was moved on. If Gardner/Buderus see someone they think will do a better job then go for it.

Kristian Woolf would be the obvious replacement, but will probably be linked to every gig that pops up so may not be available too long. Wouldn't want Flanagan, Green or Toovey anywhere near the club. Ciraldo & Ryles are the 2 new 'can't miss' future head coaches. The issue is they often do miss when finally running their own team.

I could see Gardner being desperate enough to throw big money at an established coach. Bellamy, Robinson & Cleary won't leave so my left field name would be Des Hasler. Somewhat polarising but has had success everywhere he's gone and has already left Manly for more money once before.

Take Mary McGregor...

 

[marshall stalin]

What about a swap - O'Brien and Maguire- Brooks can be part of a package deal

 

[Iamback]

I know it is hard to get a true gauge as fans.

I had you guys bottom 4 before a ball was kicked, most had you guys as not a top 8 side
Lack in key areas in the roster now with the injuries it was an uphill battle.

 

[perverse]

What's the solution? Can't just cop this the rest of my life and never see Newcastle win a premiership again.

I really do feel we're on the right track but the last couple of weeks and some bad injury luck is bringing up traumas of the past for most of us.

This season certainly isn't a write-off by any means and there's still promising signs amongst the crap we've seen this month.

Not sure, honestly. You need to get someone in there that can keep the boys uncomfortable and driven... or convince them that Newcastle is a place worth putting the effort and striving for true success in. That, or a group of individuals that want to do it for themselves and their own reasons - and are driven enough by that to not get seduced by the easy going lifestyle.

I know it is hard to get a true gauge as fans.

I had you guys bottom 4 before a ball was kicked, most had you guys as not a top 8 side
Lack in key areas in the roster now with the injuries it was an uphill battle.

Not as hard as you think. There were plenty of us talking about how far backwards our squad had gone from last year to this year. Our current position is only in any way surprising by and large due to the false hope created from the first 2 1/2 rounds and actually playing some OK footy. We're that desperate as fans that some of us will latch onto a good game or two and think we've turned some sort of massive corner. It's hard to blame us, we've been getting mentally tortured for the best part of 2 decades now.

 

[Burwood]

Shaun Wane. Guy can coach, plus he’d be an obvious attraction for the quality English players that we’re apparently seeking.

 

[Iamback]

Not as hard as you think. There were plenty of us talking about how far backwards our squad had gone from last year to this year. Our current position is only in any way surprising by and large due to the false hope created from the first 2 1/2 rounds and actually playing some OK footy. We're that desperate as fans that some of us will latch onto a good game or two and think we've turned some sort of massive corner.

WT have fallen into the trap of thinking the coach was the issue and punting him. Would a new coach do better with the roster? I say no for now anyway

 

[perverse]

WT have fallen into the trap of thinking the coach was the issue and punting him. Would a new coach do better with the roster? I say no for now anyway

Hard to say. First thing you need to do is actually determine the true issue, then formulate a solution. After that - the question is do you have the right coach to execute that solution.

O'Brien seems to be a real mixed bag... but what I can say is that in his third year he's still not getting consistent performances out of his highly paid players. Now, it's easy to say that we're paying the wrong players big money - and there's some truth to that too - but what I will offer in response is that most of those players would be delivering more at other clubs.

So the question becomes - what do you fix first, and how do you go about it?

The biggest crime of all at the Knights right now is that we're not producing first grade ready juniors from our own systems. We've changed our systems up again this year in response to that... but it's going to take time to see if it works. If we could rely on our junior pathways to produce keen and actually effective juniors - it would go the longest way of anything else to solving our problems. As it stands at the moment, if you're a first grader at the Knights - your job is assured. There's no promising junior knocking on the door below you. It's a black hole of talentless hacks plodding about in NSW cup for the most part.

 

[Yosh]

As an outsider, who doesn't have any inside information at all, in my opinion the professionalism of the club has improved leaps and bounds the past few years. I'd say after the Wests took over.

The systems are in place so it surely means within 3-4 years we will see really strong results on the field.

 

[Iamback]

Hard to say. First thing you need to do is actually determine the true issue, then formulate a solution. After that - the question is do you have the right coach to execute that solution.

O'Brien seems to be a real mixed bag... but what I can say is that in his third year he's still not getting consistent performances out of his highly paid players. Now, it's easy to say that we're paying the wrong players big money - and there's some truth to that too - but what I will offer in response is that most of those players would be delivering more at other clubs.

So the question becomes - what do you fix first, and how do you go about it?

The biggest crime of all at the Knights right now is that we're not producing first grade ready juniors from our own systems. We've changed our systems up again this year in response to that... but it's going to take time to see if it works. If we could rely on our junior pathways to produce keen and actually effective juniors - it would go the longest way of anything else to solving our problems. As it stands at the moment, if you're a first grader at the Knights - your job is assured. There's no promising junior knocking on the door below you. It's a black hole of talentless hacks plodding about in NSW cup for the most part.

It takes 12-18 months for a new coaching style to take shape, So no improvement yet is probably a pass.

There are posters in the Penrith forum that are certain if Barnett isn't sent off, That we lose. Maybe that is true but it just shows how results don't always tell the story.

As for the side improving now. No Pearce - Replaced with a NSW Cup standard player
Losing Brailey in pre season
As the big clubs have shown with Tom Turbo it is easy to keep a Fullback out of the play. So Ponga can be hard to get involved using that same logic.

Fix the roster flaws and the side will improve

 

[perverse]

It takes 12-18 months for a new coaching style to take shape, So no improvement yet is probably a pass.

There are posters in the Penrith forum that are certain if Barnett isn't sent off, That we lose. Maybe that is true but it just shows how results don't always tell the story.

As for the side improving now. No Pearce - Replaced with a NSW Cup standard player
Losing Brailey in pre season
As the big clubs have shown with Tom Turbo it is easy to keep a Fullback out of the play. So Ponga can be hard to get involved using that same logic.

Fix the roster flaws and the side will improve

Perhaps. We're well past 12-18 months with O'Brien though, as I said this is year 3... and it's still the same old garbage. It's his squad now, with his deficiencies. He has to take some responsibility.

I think we probably do win the Penrith match if Barnett wasn't a total plonker - but you blokes were well below your best that day too. I'd even say there's an argument to be made that we may have won last night had Randall not had dickfingers trying to score off Ponga's kick. Ifs and buts... the truth is we're always going over hypotheticals year in, year out. If your season is decided by a few key moments in the balance - you're not doing enough to take those moments out of the equation. A good team will always play enough good footy to overcome these sorts of things.

We certainly need a half to replace Pearce, no arguments from me there - but it's not something I like to talk about around here. Clune is a good effort player and has had a few nice touches, but most around here think we've upgraded significantly from Pearce in signing Clune. I've had enough boring discussions about Pearce over the past few years to just not want to discuss it anymore - and discussions get heated too, which I have no interest in. The groupthink is that he was a talentless hack who harmed our side more than helping it - despite our winning record with him on the field versus not on the field telling a completely different story.

What I will say is that you're correct in that we have no on-field generals. No-one to take control of the team and own the result. No captain, no dominant half. Pearce may have steered the ship in odd directions, but at least he was man enough to steer it and own whatever came from it whenever he took the field. That's far more than you can say for Clune, Clifford or Ponga right now. Now I have to get ready for the inevitable responses to this post for even whispering the name Pearce in any sort of positive light... but it is what it is, I suppose. He had many flaws and was aging rapidly, but people ignore his virtues too. We haven't replaced any of those virtues in our current squad. He was a leader. He wasn't the best leader - but now we have no leader. We need to replace that, hopefully with someone better than Pearce ever was.

We are missing Brailey for sure too. Not much more need be said about that. Randall is a NSW Cup player masquerading as a first grader.

 

[Knight Tales]

Peace was the glue. One has to wonder what Joey and he could have created in the off season.

 

[perverse]

Peace was the glue. One has to wonder what Joey and he could have created in the off season.

Expecting a lot of Pearce this year if we had kept him would have been misguided. The reason I think we let go of him a year early is because there was no succession plan. We needed these extra 12 months to really line up a viable replacement and transition to it. He would have likely spent a good chunk of the year on the sidelines anyway, which would have given good opportunities to try some stuff out.

Instead - all our eggs are in the Adam Clune basket.

As it stands, we've got $700k of cap and 2 roster spots sitting there unfilled, and no-where to spend it. We've got no depth either. One injury in the halves and we're on the Phoenix Crossland train again... it's just grim honestly.

 

[Sir Galahad]

Fix the roster flaws and the side will improve

This

We have far too many injury prone ( not available for selection ) squad members combined with below average NRL players. The pressure to perform comes from within the squad, dont perform and you're not selected.

 

[perverse]

This

We have far too many injury prone ( not available for selection ) squad members combined with below average NRL players. The pressure to perform comes from within the squad, dont perform and you're not selected.

This is true, as well... and comes back to my comment re: juniors simply not producing. There's no incentive to perform if you're a Knights first grader. We've been in this position before, and we're back there again.

O'Brien talks a bit in his pressers about "next-man-up" mentality. The problem is, our next-man-up is oftentimes a total peanut.

 

[Jono078]

Pearce

Certainly not interested in a Pearce vs Clune or a what did Pearce offer us debate. I think we knew his positives and weaknesses.

What I will say is; the club probably has no one else to blame but themselves.. We half-assed it with Pearce by offering him a 1-year deal, that in itself would have been a distraction this year. Just look at what's going on with Ponga.

We should have made the call to either move on from him and target the likes of a Hynes (easy to say in hindsight but point remains) or back Pearce for another 2 years (personally, I would not have liked this).

Instead the club tried to get the best of both worlds and now we are "stuck" where we are. Clune is doing alright but he's not the long-term answer either.

How much influence AOB had on the Pearce re-signing I don't know, but it never screamed confidence he's our guy. If AOB was fair dinkum I think he would have said cheers for everything Pearce but we need to go in a new direction.

 

[perverse]

Certainly not interested in a Pearce vs Clune or a what did Pearce offer us debate. I think we knew his positives and weaknesses.

What I will say is; the club probably has no one else to blame but themselves.. We half-assed it with Pearce by offering him a 1-year deal, that in itself would have been a distraction this year, just look at what's going on with Ponga.

We should have made the call to either move on from him and target the likes of a Hynes (easy to say in hindsight but point remains) or back Pearce for another 2 years (personally, I would not have liked this).

Instead the club tried to get the best of both worlds and now we are "stuck" where we are. Clune is doing alright but he's not the long-term answer either.

How much influence AOB had on the Pearce re-signing I don't know, but it never screamed confidence he's our guy. If AOB was fair dinkum I think he would have said cheers for everything Pearce but we need to go in a new direction.

I agree... but the worst part of it is we probably could have had BOTH with a little bit of shrewd negotiating and roster management. Why do we have 2 open roster slots and $700k sitting unused right now - and absolutely no prospects to fill that space?

One name we haven't spoken about is Milford. He's a total wildcard in all of this... and we won't know until probably Origin time whether that's going to pan out at all for us. Either way - he's not a long term solution... but he could at the very least help turn this season around. Or he could be an abject failure.