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Sack Adam O'Brien

Woody90

Bench
Messages
3,019
My thoughts:

1 - Yes. when the future franchises are considered the Brown signing makes a lot more sense. I'm deeply concerned about our plan to run zero halfbacks next year given the current coaching standards, but it's clearly the direction we're headed. Playmakers are going to be very scarce. After 2 rounds, with Kalyn slipping into first receiver a lot - it was seeming like a decent plan. So realistically, and as always, a lot hinges on Kalyn.
2 - Yes we have to back O'Sullivan. It's not like we have any other choices. Jury is out so far.
3 - Everything else you've said is the most puzzling for me. Do people really think the head coach has no input into recruitment? The guy has been here for half a decade. This is his team and has been for years. Coaches get a lot of leeway in the first 12-24 months they arrive because it isn't "their team" yet. When the f**k is Adam O'Brien going to take responsibility for the team he puts on the park? I don't get why people still want to treat this guy with kids gloves.

Actually it came out quite recently that AOB doesn’t have much input into the recruitment decisions here, which I find really strange tbh. On one hand building a squad that’s not dependent on a particular coach is smart if the coach doesn’t work out, but the type of players we keep bringing in aren’t exactly compatible with AOB’s style either. No sign of it ending either as Brown’s definitely more of a talented attacking playing rather than someone that’s going to help with a controlling/grind down the opposition game plan that AOB loves.
 
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1,425
I'm not saying he can pick and choose anyone he likes in the comp like the Roosters can. Maybe I'm crazy, but I'd expect a head coach to put together a team he wants over a period of 5-6 years. Maybe my expectations are too high. Maybe the Knights need to give a decade? 15 years?

My point is, if he can't get it done in the insane amount of time we've been patient, then it's clearly time for a fresh perspective. We are dead in the water and going backwards. Need to make a change.
I could not possibly AGREE with you more.

The coach is too far down the food chain though.

Success starts at the front office. This is a reflection on management - the end.

Staffing - Turnstile, unstable, disjointed, rabble - and we are seeing the results right now.

Pathways - A 16 yr old when Wests took over would be 24 yr old today. Where are all the juniors about to hit their prime?

Recruitment - Signed mid level plodders for the same or more money than investing in young future stars with a high ceiling. (look what the Raiders have done recently)

Only need to look at the Panthers for what can be done, and the Dogs for what is being done when pro's are running the show. I'm a fan of what Canberra are doing - They will be good in a few years.
 
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1,425
Does anyone remember why Bennett left? He left because the all 3rd party deals promised were not forthcoming, and what little TPD's we did have were about to fly out the door.

Bennett left because he is a winner, he only coaches clubs that can assemble a roster to compete. It's a brave coach that takes over the Knights.
 

Yosh

Coach
Messages
12,230
I could not possibly AGREE with you more.

The coach is too far down the food chain though.

Success starts at the front office. This is a reflection on management - the end.

Staffing - Turnstile, unstable, disjointed, rabble - and we are seeing the results right now.

Pathways - A 16 yr old when Wests took over would be 24 yr old today. Where are all the juniors about to hit their prime?

Recruitment - Signed mid level plodders for the same or more money than investing in young future stars with a high ceiling. (look what the Raiders have done recently)

Only need to look at the Panthers for what can be done, and the Dogs for what is being done when pro's are running the show. I'm a fan of what Canberra are doing - They will be good in a few years.


I bet if Cleary or Ciraldo was our head coach we would be a far superior outfit on the field even with our roster. Do you disagree?
 

Woody90

Bench
Messages
3,019
Does anyone remember why Bennett left? He left because the all 3rd party deals promised were not forthcoming, and what little TPD's we did have were about to fly out the door.

Bennett left because he is a winner, he only coaches clubs that can assemble a roster to compete. It's a brave coach that takes over the Knights.

Bennett left because he’s a weed and knew that the consequences of him completely f**king up the salary cap were about to hit and he didn’t want to stick around to have his “super coach” reputation impacted when it did.
 
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1,425
Bennett left because he’s a weed and knew that the consequences of him completely f**king up the salary cap were about to hit and he didn’t want to stick around to have his “super coach” reputation impacted when it did.
Basically exactly what I posted.

But back to AOB -

Kicking game - who does he have available to control 1/3 of the game ? No one - BOTTOM 4

Yardage - What forwards does he have available that's mtr eating leaders - no one - BOTTOM 4

Control/ Direction - What half does he have to steer the team and complete a game plan. - No one - BOTTOM 4

= Where are we on the ladder?
 
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1,425
I bet if Cleary or Ciraldo was our head coach we would be a far superior outfit on the field even with our roster. Do you disagree?
The above coaches have a better roster than AOB has. The Roosters have a better roster.

Jesus, Mohammad or the great Buddha himself would not make a measurable difference.

A large part is selling belief to the playing group, only so much of that lemon to be squeezed before the reality hits that the promises of a better tomorrow are not coming. Ask Leo.
 

Old dog

Bench
Messages
2,743
We are in this situation due to lack of planning and failing to look to the future.
Case in point we brought Cogger in but despite his GF with Penrith was showing little. At the same time we haven’t seen a local 7 for ages our current Cup half is Sutton been around for a while but even with our crisis at 7 he hasn’t had a look in, not good enough then develop a local and/or buy a promising 7 from elsewhere.
you could go through lots of these, Leo for example is leaving, replacements so far Sullivan W and Teague along with some young locals, yes maybe promising but a couple of years away.
i understand Pos new to club and might take time but the planning still could have been done years ago, surely AOB and his crew had a list of what was needed.
 

Apey

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
28,691
I mean, Wayne also left because Tinkler was going under and couldn't pay the bills.

Knights fans are a funny bunch. Bennett tells everyone we're a rabble and we're annoyed because he said it. Nothing's changed, really.
 

Yosh

Coach
Messages
12,230
The above coaches have a better roster than AOB has. The Roosters have a better roster.

Jesus, Mohammad or the great Buddha himself would not make a measurable difference.

A large part is selling belief to the playing group, only so much of that lemon to be squeezed before the reality hits that the promises of a better tomorrow are not coming. Ask Leo.
Not my point. With our roster, do you think those coaches would do better or worse? That's what I'm asking.

Is the coach not to blame at all then? You saying if AOB went to the Dogs, played AOB ball, he would have gotten the same improvements as Ciraldo has in the past 2 years?

Not saying our club/management has been perfect but AOB shoulders a lot of the blame.
 
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1,425
Not my point. With our roster, do you think those coaches would do better or worse? That's what I'm asking.
the same, after 5 years of selling belief and zero enforcements to carry through the dream, belief starts to waver - in any case I think the team over achieved the last few years.
Is the coach not to blame at all then?
I think regardless of attractive or unattractive footy, AOB took a sub par outfit to the finals more times than not. Not as much to blame as management .

played AOB ball, he would have gotten the same improvements as Ciraldo has in the past 2 years?
he'd be playing a different style more suited to the playing group - "a team is only as fast as it's slowest man" - we are as good collectively as Cogger.

Not saying our club/management has been perfect but AOB shoulders a lot of the blame.
debatable - perhaps some. The majority lands at the desk of Phil "foot in mouth" Gardner. He of chicken snitty fame.
 

perverse

Referee
Messages
27,070
debatable - perhaps some. The majority lands at the desk of Phil "foot in mouth" Gardner. He of chicken snitty fame.
You're in charge of a footy team for 5+ years and they regularly show up (during the entirety of that time bar a 2.5 month period) and look like they don't even know each other. Perhaps some!

kekw-dow.gif


Perhaps some!!
 

perverse

Referee
Messages
27,070
Actually it came out quite recently that AOB doesn’t have much input into the recruitment decisions here, which I find really strange tbh. On one hand building a squad that’s not dependent on a particular coach is smart if the coach doesn’t work out, but the type of players we keep bringing in aren’t exactly compatible with AOB’s style either. No sign of it ending either as Brown’s definitely more of a talented attacking playing rather than someone that’s going to help with a controlling/grind down the opposition game plan that AOB loves.
What do you mean came out recently? Sounds like a load of nonsense to me. According to whom?

Aren't you sick of us having to dig ourselves out of ridiculous holes every year? Shouldn't some knowledge persist year to year and we build as a club? Our player turnover has not been remarkably high during his tenure.

Have you seen that video that Cronk compared recently on one of the footy shows? Our shape versus Melbournes? The absolute terrible job we do of falling into shape, and then the even worse job we do at even the basic stuff like our decoy runners actually running a purposeful line? That stuff is coaching!! It's our system! It sucks! Adam O'Brien and Blake Green are responsible for it! This isn't conjecture or making shit up, just go watch us. Compare some video. We are f**king terrible at even the basic shit that should be expected of even a bottom 4 NRL team - and it shows in the stats too.

Go watch any of the well-drilled, well coached teams in the NRL. Even with players out - they fall into shape. They run decoys properly. They do the basics. Even the shittier teams can manage it. We don't - and the fact that we only seem to have 15-17 players at the club that understand the system is an indictment on the coaches before anyone else. It doesn't even matter who is in the jersey - at 5+ years of being here - the players should know wtf they're doing. They should know our shapes. It should be habitual, they shouldn't even need to think about it.

Right now, at this moment 8 rounds in, we have had an historically bad start to the season. In the modern NRL era, no-one has been worse than us with the ball in hand, and for reasons I just can't fathom people still want to go in to bat for this guy. We might have an ordinary roster, but it's not the worst roster of the past 25 years. But they absolute are playing like it - statistically and by the eye test as well. We have legitimate attacking weapons that should produce points - but we are beyond bad. We are literally the worst.

I wish we'd demand more of our club, but it seems to me there's a percentage of people who will just back whatever the f**k nonsense we dish up and make excuses rather than actually making changes to fix things. It's really depressing honestly. We need to have some self respect and demand better - with our voice and with our wallets.
 
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Messages
1,425
The Knights give off more Eels ineptitude and political infighting than Storm best practice savvy professionalism.

A losing streak of games in a season - looks poor but is nothing. Meaningful, sustainable, and real change starts at the top.

AOB is far from Schumacher but he is not to blame for the Datsun 180 - That's Phil Gardner.
 

Woody90

Bench
Messages
3,019
What do you mean came out recently? Sounds like a load of nonsense to me. According to whom?

Aren't you sick of us having to dig ourselves out of ridiculous holes every year? Shouldn't some knowledge persist year to year and we build as a club? Our player turnover has not been remarkably high during his tenure.

Have you seen that video that Cronk compared recently on one of the footy shows? Our shape versus Melbournes? The absolute terrible job we do of falling into shape, and then the even worse job we do at even the basic stuff like our decoy runners actually running a purposeful line? That stuff is coaching!! It's our system! It sucks! Adam O'Brien and Blake Green are responsible for it! This isn't conjecture or making shit up, just go watch us. Compare some video. We are f**king terrible at even the basic shit that should be expected of even a bottom 4 NRL team - and it shows in the stats too.

Go watch any of the well-drilled, well coached teams in the NRL. Even with players out - they fall into shape. They run decoys properly. They do the basics. Even the shittier teams can manage it. We don't - and the fact that we only seem to have 15-17 players at the club that understand the system is an indictment on the coaches before anyone else. It doesn't even matter who is in the jersey - at 5+ years of being here - the players should know wtf they're doing. They should know our shapes. It should be habitual, they shouldn't even need to think about it.

Right now, at this moment 8 rounds in, we have had an historically bad start to the season. In the modern NRL era, no-one has been worse than us with the ball in hand, and for reasons I just can't fathom people still want to go in to bat for this guy. We might have an ordinary roster, but it's not the worst roster of the past 25 years. But they absolute are playing like it - statistically and by the eye test as well. We have legitimately attacking weapons that should produce points - but we are beyond bad. We are literally the worst.

I wish we'd demand more of our club, but it seems to me there's a percentage of people who will just back whatever the f**k nonsense we dish up and make excuses rather than actually making changes to fix things. It's really depressing honestly. We need to have some self respect and demand better - with our voice and with our wallets.

Not sure why you’re arguing with me mate, I agree with you.

The stuff about AOB not being involved in the recruitment was spoken about by Buzz and Brent Reed (referenced on podcasts, Triple M and 360) at the end of 2024 when POS came in and started tapping blokes and again when we signed Brown. I thought it must have been bullshit too but I’ve also heard AOB recently say he’s not involved in that stuff (recruitment).
 

perverse

Referee
Messages
27,070
Not sure why you’re arguing with me mate, I agree with you.

The stuff about AOB not being involved in the recruitment was spoken about by Buzz and Brent Reed at the end of 2024 when POS came in and started tapping blokes and again when we signed Brown. I thought it must have been bullshit too but I’ve also heard AOB recently say he’s not involved in that stuff (recruitment).
AOB saying it would just be deflecting difficult media scrum questions about recruitment targets, so I pay zero attention to that. In fact I pay zero attention to what Buzz has to say too, so tbh I just don't buy it on face value. Makes no sense and it's just a ridiculous thought.

If it's true then please go recruit a coach that actually commands enough respect to have some say in their own roster - because honestly it's pretty pathetic to think any coach would work with no input into their roster. Very sad, tiny dick energy.
 

Apey

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
28,691
Our attacking stats in 2024 weren't great reading either. It's clear we're on a downward trend.

Second worst Points For in 2022.
Second worst Points For in 2024. One of the worst attacking teams of the NRL era after 7 games to then make the finals.*

2023 was the outlier obviously, 4th worst Points For after Round 17, most tried scored in the 2023 regular season by the end.

*edit, misread the stat completely.
 
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perverse

Referee
Messages
27,070
Our attacking stats in 2024 weren't great reading either. It's clear we're on a downward trend.

Second worst Points For in 2022.
Second worst Points For in 2024 and worst ever to make the 8 in NRL era.

2023 was the outlier obviously, 4th worst Points For after Round 17, most tried scored in the 2023 regular season by the end.
So we're literally a 10 week hot streak off it being 4 years of this hot garbage. Which tracks, honestly.
 

Yosh

Coach
Messages
12,230
the same, after 5 years of selling belief and zero enforcements to carry through the dream, belief starts to waver - in any case I think the team over achieved the last few years.

I think regardless of attractive or unattractive footy, AOB took a sub par outfit to the finals more times than not. Not as much to blame as management .


he'd be playing a different style more suited to the playing group - "a team is only as fast as it's slowest man" - we are as good collectively as Cogger.


debatable - perhaps some. The majority lands at the desk of Phil "foot in mouth" Gardner. He of chicken snitty fame.
Some good points but for me the thing that irks me the most is: he got us to the finals. Let's say we lost a game more a season those years or scored a try or two less and came 9th all those years. Would he still be a "success"? What's the point of coming 8th? I don't get it.
 

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