Sack Adam O'Brien

[Apey]

So we're literally a 10 week hot streak off it being 4 years of this hot garbage. Which tracks, honestly.

I corrected one of those stats wrong I read wrong - for 2024 I think we were one of the lowest scoring teams in the first 7 games to then make the finals in the NRL era.

But if you want to go back to 2021...

 

[Woody90]

AOB saying it would just be deflecting difficult media scrum questions about recruitment targets, so I pay zero attention to that. In fact I pay zero attention to what Buzz has to say too, so tbh I just don't buy it on face value. Makes no sense and it's just a ridiculous thought.

If it's true then please go recruit a coach that actually commands enough respect to have some say in their own roster - because honestly it's pretty pathetic to think any coach would work with no input into their roster. Very sad, tiny dick energy.

Again I agree it’s ridiculous, but just going off comments from the journos (2 of which do seem to have ins at the club) and honestly nothing would surprise me with the Knights. Just looking at the roster objectively too, it doesn’t scream players that have been handpicked by a coach who loves conservative and grinding football. I don’t really care either way how much involvement AOB has had with the roster tbh because there’s enough to criticise him with and justify sacking purely from a tactical standpoint anyway and my belief is that a good coach can form a game plan to suit the players he’s got/been given anyway.

 

[Haffa]

You're in charge of a footy team for 5+ years and they regularly show up (during the entirety of that time bar a 2.5 month period) and look like they don't even know each other. Perhaps some!

Perhaps some!!

He has used the same 'we just gotta plug away' soundbites for 5 years when asked how they're going to fix it. This week he even threw in a bit of "sin bin" chat to distract.

The bloke is just not capable of being a head coach at this level. He can't adapt to the roster at all, we are getting progressively worse.

 

[Knight Tales]

Tinkler would have sacked him three years ago. But that was another time. When we actually believed we were going to conquer.

 

[Burwood]

Tinkler wouldn’t have hired him.

 

[The Axe of Druss]

Basically exactly what I posted.

But back to AOB -

Kicking game - who does he have available to control 1/3 of the game ? No one - BOTTOM 4

Yardage - What forwards does he have available that's mtr eating leaders - no one - BOTTOM 4

Control/ Direction - What half does he have to steer the team and complete a game plan. - No one - BOTTOM 4

= Where are we on the ladder?

Near the same squad over the previous 2 seasons - TOP 8

It's 100% the coaching because the squad isn't that bad. Have a look at the Bulldogs squad, especially their spine. Tell me they are that much better than the Knights across the board. They aren't, but they have a good coach...

 

[Dr Dr Gimedanews]

Near the same squad over the previous 2 seasons - TOP 8

I'd argue they over achieved. Truly remarkable with the reserve grade halves pairing and a make-shift hooker.

I'm not a strong AOB supporter. Although I think he can coach, I've seen enough to suggest he has his issues. Just not sure changing coach is going to change much at all.

Have a look at the Bulldogs squad, especially their spine. Tell me they are that much better than the Knights across the board.

In critical positions they have the Knights well and truly covered

Kicking
Dogs
Sexton is top 5 Kick mtrs
Crichton converting at 78%
Burton has a boom boot

Knights? lol

Halves
Kicking as above
Sexton and Burton v Cogger and Sharpe ?
Hooker
Mahoney v Crossland ?

Have a look at their backrow, leadership . The real sign is Mann. He's where he belongs in a successful team - the bench. At the Knights he's a starter.

 

[Dr Dr Gimedanews]

What's the point of coming 8th? I don't get it.

Zero point at all. I've argued that point before, unpopular as it is. Even the fan base cheer the return of fringe first graders to the starting side, and even want them re-signed - mind blowing. It's truly amazing. Average apparently is acceptable.

In the better part of a decade Wests Group have taken the club from Wooden Spooners to a mid table ( average) team. By no metrics, or Olympian cognitive gymnastics is that an acceptable performance by management.

Would you add that company to your share portfolio?

EDIT - and going from bottom to mid level is the easiest part. The climb from mid level to the top is much much harder.

 

[HarVeeGee]

Who are these fringe first graders fans are excited about? Elliott and Saifiti? Both good players mate come on.

Don't disagree Dr Dr that in a general sense we just haven't put enough capital T Talent on the field, and that's been our biggest issue. But there's a balancing act at play too and I still think you undersell and underrate someone like Adam Elliott.

If we pick up a hugely promising young middle who has a decent amount of footy against men and is ready to play first grade now like Josiah Pahulu, sure, then you can really play hardball with a guy like Elliott and happily let him walk if necessary. But you also can't be a successful side by chucking young guys with a lot of potential at the wall, with a massive shortfall of experience around them. You want to see what that looks like, go look at the Seibold Broncos. Players in those teams, where everyone is young and inexperienced, don't learn as quickly and don't get better like they should. If we don't have experienced players supporting them, guys like Cody Hopwood will come in too young, be asked to do much too soon, get bashed around, and it'll derail and shorten their careers.

Everyone talks about Penrith being built from within, but in the leadup to them going on that run they had a team with *heaps* of imports in it. Plenty of guys I'm sure you'd say were overpaid - decent to good players, or kind of washed former rep guys, not absolute studs like guys like Fisher-Harris, To'o, Stephen Crichton etc turned out to be. But those experienced pros were absolutely part of the process, and they never bottomed out: they were solidly mid-table for years, then they became elite.

It's a balancing act. If it was simple, Melbourne wouldn't be the only team which is good every year.

 

[SamSepi0l]

In the very simplest terms - we have no middles, especially with JSaf out and with Cogger we lack a 7 who can kick us out of trouble to make up the difference.

 

[The Axe of Druss]

I'd argue they over achieved. Truly remarkable with the reserve grade halves pairing and a make-shift hooker.

I'm not a strong AOB supporter. Although I think he can coach, I've seen enough to suggest he has his issues. Just not sure changing coach is going to change much at all.

In critical positions they have the Knights well and truly covered

Kicking
Dogs
Sexton is top 5 Kick mtrs
Crichton converting at 78%
Burton has a boom boot

Knights? lol

Halves
Kicking as above
Sexton and Burton v Cogger and Sharpe ?
Hooker
Mahoney v Crossland ?

Have a look at their backrow, leadership . The real sign is Mann. He's where he belongs in a successful team - the bench. At the Knights he's a starter.

So you are saying the difference is a half who can kick.

Oh and Mann spent a fair share of his time here coming off the bench. He also wouldn't be starting for us with our current full strength pack.

So in summary, the difference between the Bulldogs and us is a coach who knows what it is to win and a guy who was a reserve grader for years at his previous club that is now, through good coaching, an ok kicker of the ball and another who can spiral bomb. Insightful

 

[SamSepi0l]

And their spine.
And their pack.
Which makes the spine look better.
Which makes the rest of the team look better.

 

[Knight Tales]

What if POS decides he can’t land his targets because of AOB’s tenure, then does it become the main catalyst to let him go early?

 

[Dr Dr Gimedanews]

Who are these fringe first graders fans are excited about? Elliott and Saifiti? Both good players mate come on.

Don't disagree Dr Dr that in a general sense we just haven't put enough capital T Talent on the field, and that's been our biggest issue. But there's a balancing act at play too and I still think you undersell and underrate someone like Adam Elliott.

Jsaf is one of the few Knights players in the top 50% of his position .

Elliot is a below average player, on above average money delivering below average performance = LOW VALUE. No if's but's or maybe's - fact. If he was VALUE he would have been signed Nov/Dec last year - ditto Hetherington, Brailey, Hastings. Sully and 16 other teams recruitment officers agree. No argument mate - fact. Why do you think Sully tried to sign junior lock forward Latu recently @ a reported 400K per year .... shitz and giggles?

It is ALL about VALUE. Players returning ABOVE their outlay. VALUE. That's the balancing act. Sully will exhaust all avenues before he offers the above LOW VALUE players anything, and it will be a drastic reduction on their current contract. If he valued them he'd have already signed them wouldn't he? (ditto 16 other clubs) simple economics mate.

 

[Woody90]

Jsaf is one of the few Knights players in the top 50% of his position .

Elliot is a below average player, on above average money delivering below average performance = LOW VALUE. No if's but's or maybe's - fact. If he was VALUE he would have been signed Nov/Dec last year - ditto Hetherington, Brailey, Hastings. Sully and 16 other teams recruitment officers agree. No argument mate - fact. Why do you think Sully tried to sign junior lock forward Latu recently @ a reported 400K per year .... shitz and giggles?

It is ALL about VALUE. Players returning ABOVE their outlay. VALUE. That's the balancing act. Sully will exhaust all avenues before he offers the above LOW VALUE players anything, and it will be a drastic reduction on their current contract. If he valued them he'd have already signed them wouldn't he? (ditto 16 other clubs) simple economics mate.

We’re missing Elliott a fair bit at the moment in a number of areas: experience, ball playing, leadership, talk.

 

[Dr Dr Gimedanews]

We’re missing Elliott a fair bit at the moment in a number of areas: experience, ball playing, leadership, talk.

I agree, and isn't it a very sad state of affairs, when you are missing average.

I'm sure Hetho, Brailey, Elliot, Hastings are all great fellas. But unfortunately all offer poor value (poor return on investment) and are a large reason why we are not competitive. Hence the employment of Sully to sort that shit out.

Cogger and Gamble are good value - on a pie and a coke as back-up halves playing in Cup where they belong. (personally I would have gone for youth with potential)

 

[Woody90]

I agree, and isn't it a very sad state of affairs, when you are missing average.

I'm sure Hetho, Brailey, Elliot, Hastings are all great fellas. But unfortunately all offer poor value (poor return on investment) and are a large reason why we are not competitive. Hence the employment of Sully to sort that shit out.

Cogger and Gamble are good value - on a pie and a coke as back-up halves playing in Cup where they belong. (personally I would have gone for youth with potential)

You’re not going to find many experienced middle forwards who can ball play and offer leadership qualities for much less than Elliott’s on I’ll tell you that much. If POS can I’ll eat my words but it seems unlikely. My only issue with Elliott is that he tries to do too much then makes errors, but that’s much less of a crime than what a lot of players sucking up a lot more cap space are doing. I get this is the hill you’ve decided to die on though for some weird reason.

 

[The Axe of Druss]

And their spine.
And their pack.
Which makes the spine look better.
Which makes the rest of the team look better.

No, they're very similar in all the ways that matter.

What makes their team look better is coaching. He has them bought into a defensive system that works for the types of players he has and their attack is based on completions, discipline and early ball to their hard running outside backs.

 

[mozza91]

Elliott is a good player and is excellent value for money. And we have missed him massively on both sides of the ball.
Anyone who doesn’t see this must have a weird af personal vendetta.

 

[HarVeeGee]

Elliott makes $450K per season lol. Just an insane thing to fixate on.

There can be more than one reason a player hasn't re-signed or signed elsewhere. Adam Reynolds signed with the Broncos on the 13th of May 2021. He had been off contract/available since Nov 1 2020. I guess he's a bum too? That $800K the Broncos signed him on was a cap-killing albatross deal? If he was good he would have been snapped up by December! Do I have that right?