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Sack Adam O'Brien

Woody90

Bench
Messages
3,113
Brad Arthur is the best option for mine.

Eels fans hate him but they hate everyone and he got them to a GF with a pretty so so side. I’d take that.

Most importantly his attacking style is pretty compatible with some of our key players and that’s the major thing we can’t get from AOB.
 
Messages
2,266
Ciraldo has done a great job with a team bought and not developed.
Ciraldo built the team to suit the way he wanted to coach and has got them top of the table after 10 rounds

Fitzgibbon hasn’t done that much better than us to be honest with a much better team.

This is a joke right? Hes gotten them to multiple top 4 finishes which included a prelim. Hes also built a roster with depth a quality across most of the positions. Hes lightyears ahead of AOB

Webster… took him a while but has them humming.

This is an argument that hes no better than AOB?
 

perverse

Referee
Messages
27,126
Fitzgibbon has a win % of 63%, the third highest of any current active coach. I'd say that's a fair bit better than the Knights. I mean I'd take it!
Has a win rate nearly 20% higher than our dimwit, but ain't that great lol.

I don't even care about win rates, but that is hilarious. The fact is our football doesn't pass the eye test or the vibe test. No-one in the NRL takes us seriously. Players do not want to come and be coached at the Knights, let alone play for us. Players were more excited to come and join the Brown rebuild than they are to join this dodgy ship. There is zero positive energy around us amongst the media, NRL players or seemingly even internally. We're a f**king mess and Adam O'Brien has steered the team for over half a decade.

There is talent in our team. It might not be a Top 4 squad, but our top 17 is far far more capable of what they're doing now - and what they're doing now is just the result far too often in the past 6 years to ignore. We need a change 2 years ago, but right now is the next best time to do it.

We're a joke. Piss him off already.
 

Yosh

Coach
Messages
12,296
Has a win rate nearly 20% higher than our dimwit, but ain't that great lol.

I don't even care about win rates, but that is hilarious. The fact is our football doesn't pass the eye test or the vibe test. No-one in the NRL takes us seriously. Players do not want to come and be coached at the Knights, let alone play for us. Players were more excited to come and join the Brown rebuild than they are to join this dodgy ship. There is zero positive energy around us amongst the media, NRL players or seemingly even internally. We're a f**king mess and Adam O'Brien has steered the team for over half a decade.

There is talent in our team. It might not be a Top 4 squad, but our top 17 is far far more capable of what they're doing now - and what they're doing now is just the result far too often in the past 6 years to ignore. We need a change 2 years ago, but right now is the next best time to do it.

We're a joke. Piss him off already.
Glad to see you're all aboard the AOB out train because you are one of the most well spoken and logical and non-Yoshesque posters on the forums.

Wonder how many more games we need to lose this year to see AOB get fired.
 
Messages
2,531
It’s the fact that we play such a boring and overall mediocre style of football that really gets me frustrated. If we were losing games on inexperience but throwing the kitchen sink at teams every game then I could cop that. But we’re throwing virtually nothing at them for around 60-70 mins each week until we’re well behind on the scoreboard and then all of a sudden the strategy changes… it’s mind boggling.

We are definitely hampered by a lack of quality at halfback and to a lesser extent hooker (but if you’ve got a good halfback then you can get away with a Crossland type player at hooker) but there have been plenty of teams in the past (our 2016-2017 team for example) who were way worse than this on paper but were at least playing a style that was better than this and putting us in a position to win games. It was usually a bit of inexperience that would cost us late in games (who remembers that game against the Dogs where they scored a couple of late tries to finish on top). But the attitude and energy was there and jeez we came close to winning some games that we had no right to be in considering how bad the squad was.

In fact I’d like to see our current mob (in their current form slump) go up against that 2016-2017 side and I reckon that side could out score the current one.

The other big concern is that players are leaving. We’ve had a steady steam of good quality players leave the club who basically left because they wanted to rather than the club not offering them a good deal. Yes there may have been situations where players were offered more money to leave but if they loved the environment they were in then they’d be more likely to stay.

KPP for example, is he unlikely to re-sign because other clubs are throwing significantly more $$$ at him? Or maybe he just doesn’t want to be at the club anymore?

Jeez I don’t want to over react but I’m feeling more and more like AOB has basically lost control of the joint and the players seem off him based on their performances… but then again that’s what we were seeing in 2023 too and we ended up on a 10 game winning run and everyone was happy so who knows what’s going on inside the club.
 

Knight Tales

Bench
Messages
3,247
AOB has not lost any dressing room. But the boys seem uninspired. Their effort is there. But we are so past that as a fan base now. Or are we?
 

Woody90

Bench
Messages
3,113
Nobody’s saying the players don’t like him or are off the coach (Madge at the Broncos at the moment is a much better example of that). But getting buy in is only part of the job. Tactically he doesn’t know what he’s doing in attack. We shouldn’t be in the bottom 4 with top 4 defence. If they’re not going to get rid of AOB they at least need to push the issue with a new attack coach as Blake Green clearly isn’t hitting his KPIs either. I think we need to start again with a whole new coaching team though. I’d be ok with McDermott staying on only in a defensive role.
 

Woody90

Bench
Messages
3,113
Apparently not. One look at the comments on FB and you'd think having a team of "local boys who try hard" is more than enough for the masses. Our game attendance numbers appear to back it up

That mightly knights FB group - They’re honestly the dumbest collective group of people I’ve ever heard before in my life. I had to unfollow it a long time ago.

They seem to equate a team filled with nothing but local juniors as the key for sure success because that worked for us in the late 90s/early 2000s…without seeing that it was because we had a golden generation of players all come through at the same time. We have Cogger/Crossland/Cant then instead of Johns/Buderus/Simpson and we win SFA but probably more spoons.
 

HarVeeGee

Juniors
Messages
349
Nobody’s saying the players don’t like him or are off the coach (Madge at the Broncos at the moment is a much better example of that). But getting buy in is only part of the job. Tactically he doesn’t know what he’s doing in attack. We shouldn’t be in the bottom 4 with top 4 defence. If they’re not going to get rid of AOB they at least need to push the issue with a new attack coach as Blake Green clearly isn’t hitting his KPIs either. I think we need to start again with a whole new coaching team though. I’d be ok with McDermott staying on only in a defensive role.
The thing that has always done my head in is this idea AOB has always, always had in his head that it's necessary to develop Kalyn into this "more complete" player, to change the way he plays massively. I don't know if it's Kalyn that drives this or AOB, but I feel like we're consistently in this pattern where we see "new Kalyn" early in the season, then in the back half of the season where we just need to win games, we go back to just having Kalyn do what he's good at.

In 2020, AOB tried to turn him into a Tedesco style fullback, more of a runner... it sort of worked, a bit, but was undermined by Kurt Mann not really being a proper 6, so then they gravitated to Kalyn being basically the second half and Kurt as a more "fullbacky" 6. I would say he had a bit of a quiet first half of the season, before he roared into form once Blake Green joined the team and performed the function of, basically, telling Kalyn where to go, getting him into good positions. Then he had a strong back half of the year with Mason Lino at 6 before AOB freaked out and put Kurt Mann back at 6 for our finals game, which we lost what felt like 150-0.

In 2021, look, I'll give a small pass - he and Pearce played about 7 games together. We picked up Clifford, a genuine half, but the attack stayed clunky with Ponga playing this "do whatever he wants" roving role in attack, which you could argue was committed to due to an injury crisis which had him playing with guys like Hoy and Crossland in the halves - it makes sense to lean on Kalyn for everything. They win the games they need to make finals but look dogshit in attack doing it; they eventually toss that aside for the finals game, and just get him attacking between the tramline and sideline constantly once AOB decides, f**k it we just need points... and we come very close to upsetting a very good Parramatta team.

2022, whatever. Borders on being a lost season for Kalyn with the head knocks. But gee there was very rarely any slickness in the attack between him, Clune, Clifford and Milford, with Kalyn playing his roving, ball hogging, "pop up everywhere" role.

2023, Kalyn wants to move to 6. Cool. We try to put a team together to enable that. Oh no! He keeps knocking himself out in every tackle! Eventually moved back to 1 and, due to the team actually working quite well in attack without him, eventually they just implement him into this system based on quick ball movement and a willingness to attack using the full field, just basically having him sweep around out the back on both sides constantly as the key link man. It works amazingly. He wins the Dally M.

2024, well we don't want to be predictable do we? Let's change things up. We need Kalyn to be a more well-rounded attacking player - make him less predictable. Oh no we can't score points anymore! Eventually the attack kind of gets going again when we need to win games to make finals and get Kalyn - stop me if you've heard this before - constantly in sweep moves down both edges. Basically building the whole game plan around those structures, except in the must win game against the Dolphins, which we dominate but play with no structure and thus only win 14-6, because according to AOB, structure doesn't win finals games, even though great attacking structure bailed us out in the finals game we won one season earlier.

2025... rookie 6 & stopgap 7 till the elite 6 we signed arrives next year... queue AOB in the presser: "in order to evolve into a more dangerous footy team, we need Kalyn popping up in different positions of the field as much as possible". "We don't want to rely on him just attacking the tramlines because that will become predictable."

OH NO! WE CAN'T SCORE POINTS! The season is very close to being totally on the line. Let's keep our eyes peeled and see what sort of role Kalyn plays in the attack in the coming weeks...

The thing that gets me is I don't feel like AOB has ever waited to see if just getting Kalyn to do what he's good at over and over again would *stop* working before deciding that it won't and he needs to shake things up. Could be Kalyn insisting on it, but from pressers it really sounds like it's heavily based on AOB's notion of what needs to be done.

Most productive (tries + assists) attacking player of the last decade is Cody Walker, who's played in a system leveraged almost entirely around just having him do what he's good at over and over again. Souths for like 5 seasons straight were a top 3 attacking team. Even though you always knew exactly what they were going to do. Makes you think!
 

HarVeeGee

Juniors
Messages
349
Addendum: AOB often talks about wanting us to be a "more unpredictable" footy team. The way he wants this to happen, seemingly, is via leveraging Kalyn's talent as this roving lead playmaker, even though the defending team kind of knows what's going to happen in attack anyway - as long as they contain Kalyn, they'll probably be okay.

But at the same time, he wants a team that goes through large swathes of the game going set for set, not contesting kicks, playing a containment game, basically waiting for the other team to blink.

How can you be conservative and unpredictable at the same time? Contradiction in terms.

He wants "unpredictable", "varied" attack, but he wants total control over how and wear on the field it happens from the coach's box.

For my money, there are two ways (broadly speaking) to have a really good attack. One is to have these consistent structures everyone understands really well that you polish to a mirror sheen and execute with great speed (or if you have a truly dominant 7 like Cleary, with great variation in speed which creates uncertainty in defenders). Cronulla is a great example. Souths during their great period between 2018-2022. Obviously there's some "eyes up" footy within that, but the game is usually opened up for them by the structure.

The other is to just have a few core principles in attack and let the boys play a bit, relying on pure talent and a hefty dose of improv to create opportunities - offloading, changes of angles, "surprise" tactics, broken play. Brisbane, North Queensland, Gold Coast, Melbourne. Some good and bad teams there, but all pretty good to great at scoring points. Very "Queensland" play style I suppose. Obviously there is structure there too, but all teams where players get more leeway/"rope" than at the majority of teams.

I feel like AOB has found a way to combine the worst of both worlds.
 
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