Sack Flanagan

[Dragon the chain]

Agree 100% on Hunt. We have common ground there.
But I think you need to let your prejudices go. We objectively have a better 6 than last year, coaches son or not. He wasn't Trent Robinson's son when the Roosters recruited him. Dean Young? Never got the hate for the guy.
Flanno was 100% the best guy available for the mess we are in. Is he getting everything right? Nope. But despite the side's schizophrenic performances, they have objectively improved on the deplorable rabble that ran out last year and disgraced the jersey every time they ran onto the field.
Last time I checked there wasn't a huge queue of clubs looking to sign up L plate Ryles whilst Flanno would walk into a job at many of the next clubs that will be on the market for a coach.
I don't believe for a minute that we'd be in a better position had we got Ryles. I shudder to think how bad that would have been.

Ryles is getting the Melbourne job.

 

[Old Timer]

Agree 100% on Hunt. We have common ground there.
But I think you need to let your prejudices go. We objectively have a better 6 than last year, coaches son or not. He wasn't Trent Robinson's son when the Roosters recruited him. Dean Young? Never got the hate for the guy.
Flanno was 100% the best guy available for the mess we are in. Is he getting everything right? Nope. But despite the side's schizophrenic performances, they have objectively improved on the deplorable rabble that ran out last year and disgraced the jersey every time they ran onto the field.
Last time I checked there wasn't a huge queue of clubs looking to sign up L plate Ryles whilst Flanno would walk into a job at many of the next clubs that will be on the market for a coach.
I don't believe for a minute that we'd be in a better position had we got Ryles. I shudder to think how bad that would have been.

Kyle was at the Roosters with Robbo and he was let go he was also at the Dogs with Gould and was again let go I think that tells you all you need to know.

Any comparison to Amone is flawed because Amone would never have been tolerated by and of the big 4 anyway and a slight improvement on Amone is never going to get you a 1st class result.

The correct comparison is to Dearden, Walker and that is a no brainer.

The point if Ryles had of been coach is that the influence of the board would have been finally broken and professional merit based systems would have been implemented.

You say no one wants Ryles yet the most professional system in the NRL welcomed him in with open arms and has given him real responsibilities so if it is good enough for Bellyache then it is plenty good enough for me.

Dean Young has been the heir apparent forever and a day and has not yet earned that right however his chair next to Flanno secures it.

Where there is Dean there will be Albert and that is a well known and documented disaster waiting to be ushered in.

 

[since77]

Ryles is getting the Melbourne job.

He was supposedly getting that job the last 4 times Bellamy was supposedly retiring. Wouldn't bet on it.

 

[Hound of Dracula]

Some very selective comparisons

So, we compare Kyle, not to what we did have in Amone, but to Deardon, a player we don't have.

And we compare the loss of Ryles as "good enough for Bellyache" but not good enough for Bennet where Demetriou has become the 5th coach to be sacked, after appointed with previous coach's blessing.

Anyway - these are all arguments that no-one will win because we can't go back in time. We have what we have.

With my brilliant, perfect, 20/20 hindsight, Flanno biggest mistake was convincing Hunt to stay. I understand why, and I also understand why Kyle is the perfect foil. I think Flanno just failed to grasp how stubborn Hunt can be. Hunt can't adapt to a modified role where he allows Kyle to manage the game. Hunt's Ego is just too big.

If he does manage to get through to Hunt, it will prove to be a coaching masterstroke however, unfortunately - I doubt it

 

[since77]

Some very selective comparisons

So, we compare Kyle, not to what we did have in Amone, but to Deardon, a player we don't have.

And we compare the loss of Ryles as "good enough for Bellyache" but not good enough for Bennet where Demetriou has become the 5th coach to be sacked, after appointed with previous coach's blessing.

Anyway - these are all arguments that no-one will win because we can't go back in time. We have what we have.

With my brilliant, perfect, 20/20 hindsight, Flanno biggest mistake was convincing Hunt to stay. I understand why, and I also understand why Kyle is the perfect foil. I think Flanno just failed to grasp how stubborn Hunt can be. Hunt can't adapt to a modified role where he allows Kyle to manage the game. Hunt's Ego is just too big.

If he does manage to get through to Hunt, it will prove to be a coaching masterstroke however, unfortunately - I doubt it

Nice summation! You've nailed the Hunt scenario IMO.

 

[Dragon the chain]

He was supposedly getting that job the last 4 times Bellamy was supposedly retiring. Wouldn't bet on it.

He turned down a pretty big offer from Dragons.

 

[Old Timer]

Some very selective comparisons

So, we compare Kyle, not to what we did have in Amone, but to Deardon, a player we don't have.

And we compare the loss of Ryles as "good enough for Bellyache" but not good enough for Bennet where Demetriou has become the 5th coach to be sacked, after appointed with previous coach's blessing.

Anyway - these are all arguments that no-one will win because we can't go back in time. We have what we have.

With my brilliant, perfect, 20/20 hindsight, Flanno biggest mistake was convincing Hunt to stay. I understand why, and I also understand why Kyle is the perfect foil. I think Flanno just failed to grasp how stubborn Hunt can be. Hunt can't adapt to a modified role where he allows Kyle to manage the game. Hunt's Ego is just too big.

If he does manage to get through to Hunt, it will prove to be a coaching masterstroke however, unfortunately - I doubt it

Your last paragraph shows the glaring difference between Flanno and the best coaches.

You’re OK with K F because you want to compare hm to Amone so please tell me of all those wearing the 6 jumper at other clubs who would Amone have displaced and out if all the 6’s at other clubs who wouldn’t you take ahead of K F?

 

[twinkletoes]

I think it has been our poor defence in some matches which has led to massive blowouts in scores and a very poor differential...I believe Dean Young is our defensive coach...in many ways defence is worse than last year! Flanaghan also needs to be held accountable for this also as head coach

 

[Slippery Morris]

Flanno wanted Dearden but did not land him. So I don't get your point. You can only compare KFlanno to AMone as there is nobody else to compare him to. It's not as if all the marquee 5/8 are available or breaking contract to join the Dragons.

The fact SFlanno chased Dearden clearly shows that K Flanno was not his long term choice at the time.

You cannot judge K FLanno anyway because he plays with Hunt and Hunt does not utilise him as much as he should. If K Flanno got a fair share of ball then you can see if K Flanno is our future but we will never know.

To be honest if I was a 5/8 looking for a FG spot I would stay away from Hunt. Why would anyone want to play next to a guy who demands the ball all the time so he can top his stats with assists seeing he is the only one who gets the ball to create assists. If there was a stat on halves that screw up on the last tackle B Hunt would be miles ahead.

 

[Hound of Dracula]

Your last paragraph shows the glaring difference between Flanno and the best coaches.

You’re OK with K F because you want to compare hm to Amone so please tell me of all those wearing the 6 jumper at other clubs who would Amone have displaced and out if all the 6’s at other clubs who wouldn’t you take ahead of K F?

You should have started that with
"Once upon a time" - It's a fairy tale question

It would also be pure fantasy to suggest any top four coaches could have taken over the Dragons and had his pick of NRL 6's to oust Amone

I welcome you back O.T. You have much rugby league knowledge that I enjoy reading. But, as you say, you are a dog with a bone regarding Flanno and even though you are trying to be objective regarding coach, I'll be taking those posts with a grain of salt.

 

[Old Timer]

You should have started that with
"Once upon a time" - It's a fairy tale question

It would also be pure fantasy to suggest any top four coaches could have taken over the Dragons and had his pick of NRL 6's to oust Amone

I welcome you back O.T. You have much rugby need knowledge that I enjoy reading. But, as you say, you are a dog with a bone regarding Flanno and even though you are trying to be objective regarding coach, I'll be taking those posts with a grain of salt.

I sincerely believe that too many posters actually think that the slightest improvement is something to be heralded and offered up as a sign that the coach is doing a 1st class job.

As I said before those "improvements" are comparisons made on failed coaches and in some instances failed players rather than comparing to what the other recent premiership winning coaches do and where the successful players go & why.

Hunt needed to be put in his place and be coupled with a dominant play making halves partner and what did we do, we signed a busted winged 5/8 from the Warriors who was well down their pecking order and when that went to shit we got the church mouse K F a 3 time discard but somehow we applaud the signing and some single out that he is tough and tackles well as the reasoning behind it being a good signing.

So why it may appear I'm prejudiced in my explanation I honestly believe that K F is nothing more than average and simply provides Hunt with the opportunity to continue on business as usual.

If K F is the real deal then play him at 7 FFS because our long serving 7 has simply not worked out and has stifled his halves partners and our attack for almost his entire tenure at the club.

The simple truth is if not for his father being here K F would be off somewhere else probably ESL.

The notion that Flanno's hands are tied for this reason or that is somewhat because he tied them himself.

Robbo was never too frightened to drop L M and then pack him off. Now Souths pander to him and look at where that has led them to.
Bennett never too frightened to drop Hunt amongst others.
Bronco's never too frightened to let R W leave nor too frightened to let him come back under stricter guidelines.
Meanwhile Hunt just keeps on doing what Hunt does and we keep stepping bare footed into the steaming turd he leaves as a sign of his love for the club.

 

[Hound of Dracula]

I sincerely believe that too many posters actually think that the slightest improvement is something to be heralded and offered up as a sign that the coach is doing a 1st class job.

As I said before those "improvements" are comparisons made on failed coaches and in some instances failed players rather than comparing to what the other recent premiership winning coaches do and where the successful players go & why.

Hunt needed to be put in his place and be coupled with a dominant play making halves partner and what did we do, we signed a busted winged 5/8 from the Warriors who was well down their pecking order and when that went to shit we got the church mouse K F a 3 time discard but somehow we applaud the signing and some single out that he is tough and tackles well as the reasoning behind it being a good signing.

So why it may appear I'm prejudiced in my explanation I honestly believe that K F is nothing more than average and simply provides Hunt with the opportunity to continue on business as usual.

If K F is the real deal then play him at 7 FFS because our long serving 7 has simply not worked out and has stifled his halves partners and our attack for almost his entire tenure at the club.

The simple truth is if not for his father being here K F would be off somewhere else probably ESL.

The notion that Flanno's hands are tied for this reason or that is somewhat because he tied them himself.

Robbo was never too frightened to drop L M and then pack him off. Now Souths pander to him and look at where that has led them to.
Bennett never too frightened to drop Hunt amongst others.
Bronco's never too frightened to let R W leave nor too frightened to let him come back under stricter guidelines.
Meanwhile Hunt just keeps on doing what Hunt does and we keep stepping bare footed into the steaming turd he leaves as a sign of his love for the club.

After the last 10-12 years of underperforming misery, the "slightest improvement" is something to be heralded.

I pretty much agree with everything you say, especially Hunt and it being a Flanno-owned error. It is now 100% on coach to rectify.

No coach was coming into our system, with our roster, so far after Nov 1, 2022, and delivering anything more than slight improvement, at best.

I am a Dragons fan like you, but I choose to be optimistic and give "slight improvement' a chance to grow into 'premiership contenders'.

Isn't that what fans do?

 

[Old Timer]

After the last 10-12 years of underperforming misery, the "slightest improvement" is something to be heralded.

I pretty much agree with everything you say, especially Hunt and it being a Flanno-owned error. It is now 100% on coach to rectify.

No coach was coming into our system, with our roster, so far after Nov 1, 2022, and delivering anything more than slight improvement, at best.

I am a Dragons fan like you, but I choose to be optimistic and give "slight improvement' a chance to grow into 'premiership contenders'.

Isn't that what fans do?

You would always hope that a friend would tell you when you have a booger hanging out your nose and toilet paper dragging out of the back of your shorts.

 

[OurRedV]

The point if Ryles had of been coach is that the influence of the board would have been finally broken and professional merit based systems would have been implemented.

What evidence do you have of this? Is this pure speculation?

I don't understand.

The satire seems strong.

 

[Dragon David]

Gee it would be a great thing if guys from this Forum could form a working party to attend the training days and get first hand info from the coaches mouth on tactics and reasons why players have been selected and why no up and comers in the lower grades being selected or considered and then the working party offer sensible suggestions as we do on the Forum to each other. Not a chance I know but I reckon we could come up with many ways to get the team playing better.

I'm not thinking of myself but there certainly are several on here that can be masters at it.

 

[Old Timer]

What evidence do you have of this? Is this pure speculation?

I don't understand.

The satire seems strong.

The evidence is the inept and farcical system we continue to have.

Our BOD are long play experts and manipulate things well in advance to ensure the status quo.

The BOD ensured that anyone wanting to have "complete control" of his own destiny as head coach was never going to get the job. Whilst I'm not a great fan of the NRL journo's it was pretty much reported that Ryles would not compromise on his wish list so therefore withdrew from the contest.

Heaven forbid it might have actually worked and showed our BOD up for the imposters they are.

 

[since77]

The evidence is the inept and farcical system we continue to have.

Our BOD are long play experts and manipulate things well in advance to ensure the status quo.

The BOD ensured that anyone wanting to have "complete control" of his own destiny as head coach was never going to get the job. Whilst I'm not a great fan of the NRL journo's it was pretty much reported that Ryles would not compromise on his wish list so therefore withdrew from the contest.

Heaven forbid it might have actually worked and showed our BOD up for the imposters they are.

Okay. Let's give you your wish for Ryles as coach for a moment. Flanno is gone.
Now please tell me how a guy who has never coached a game of NRL in his life is going to turn the club around.
You seem to have a heck of a lot of faith in a guy who was king of the brain fart in his playing days, was the "mastermind" of a horribly disastrous stint as the attacking coach at the Wallabies and has been shuffled back and forth at various assistant coaching gigs (including being dumped mid season by the Roosters for broken promises) without ever being offered a head coaches job......except supposedly by...........our own inept board of cronies and buffoons!
I'm struggling to see how a guy on his L plates and with lets say very questionable / modest / zero credentials was going to turn our fortunes around.
Your last sentence seems to suggest your assumptions are based purely on the concept of hope......

 

[Saints supporter]

I think we all knew it was going to be a tough season for the dragons. At the moment I think we are operating above par with our roster.
I don't think it helps when so called "supporters" leap into a back stabbing frenzy when we have a couple of losses. I think Flanno is the current best option as our head coach, we all need to stick solid with him and let him and his talented coaching staff get on with their jobs without having to constantly defend against the white ants within!
Admittedly, recruitment has been disappointing, but again, patience is required....it will turn around!

 

[Kolum Kid]

The point if Ryles had of been coach is that the influence of the board would have been finally broken and professional merit based systems would have been implemented.

Big "If". Why did he knock back the job is the big question if it was his.
Supposedly he had the Melbourne job. How long is he going to have to wait?

I'm not convinced he was going to be given the power he wanted.

 

[Old Timer]

Okay. Let's give you your wish for Ryles as coach for a moment. Flanno is gone.
Now please tell me how a guy who has never coached a game of NRL in his life is going to turn the club around.
You seem to have a heck of a lot of faith in a guy who was king of the brain fart in his playing days, was the "mastermind" of a horribly disastrous stint as the attacking coach at the Wallabies and has been shuffled back and forth at various assistant coaching gigs (including being dumped mid season by the Roosters for broken promises) without ever being offered a head coaches job......except supposedly by...........our own inept board of cronies and buffoons!
I'm struggling to see how a guy on his L plates and with lets say very questionable / modest / zero credentials was going to turn our fortunes around.
Your last sentence seems to suggest your assumptions are based purely on the concept of hope......

I see that conceptional thinking is not your strong point.

If Ryles had been given the job and his wishes adhered to would that have meant that the iron fisted grip the board has over the R L side of the club would have been finally broken?

Would that have been a better outcome or is the nepotism of Dean Young sitting and waiting in the wings ensuring that winks, nudges and favours remaining the norm be more beneficial?

The breaking of the grip of the board was and remains more important than the immediate results on the field that Ryles may or may not have achieved.

Nothing will ever change for the better at St GI unless the BOD grip is broken and Flanno is never going to do that and IMO Ryles was the chance for that change and he would have done things without fear or favour such is his nature.

Instead of getting to wax lyrical about might have been good or bad on the paddock we instead get to talk incessantly about what remains to be and in fact has been the case for 12.5 years namely good old mediocrity and what is wrong with our club.

5 hit ups and an up and under from our own half, Lawrie in the 17 and even promoted to 13, Hunt's kicking game, rinse and repeat selections, more journeymen, Bird at 4 and his best yet to come, 5 minute blooding of our youth every pancake day and of course the endless statements re the useless BOD yep gotcha all that is better than anything that Ryles could ever have done.