Sack Nathan Brown

[Perth Red]

On the coaching side they could have done a lot worse than go after Tony Smith. He's had a lot of success in SL and is great at bringing through talent and getting the best out of mediocre players. They should have grabbed him when he left Warrington.

 

[Penrose Warrior]

Warriors need a bit of a reboot tbh. Hopefully when they can get back to being an Auckland club they can have a good hard look at themselves and identify why, despite having a whole country of talent to pick from, they still cant put out a consistent playoff team and cant build a membership base and attendance that befits a club that represents 5 million people.

The idea that the Warriors have a whole country of talent to pick from is a massive fallacy.

For a start, 98/99% of decent football talent in our country plays rugby union. The competitions are better, the coaching is better, the progression to professional ranks is better, there's more opportunities, on and on and on.

Also, other sides in the NRL have scouts with passports. Obviously they haven't been in our country too much because of COVID, but they have contacts. Look how many young NZers are picked up to go as teenagers to Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane, wherever.

Furthermore, it's not really a club that represents 5 million. Their base is Auckland - when COVID isn't around, the rest of the country might get one game (Chch, Wellington etc) and others a pre-season game. People south of the Bombays are, by and large, not engaged with the Warriors as they don't see them.

And lastly, it's hard to build attendance and a following when the last time you played at your home ground was August 30, 2019.

No doubt there are massive issues with our club, but us as fans know it is a deep seated issue that isn't going to be cured by having a 'good hard look at ourselves'. I know from the outside it may seem that way, but what we are experiencing is not a culture problem. It's a development problem, a geographic problem, a personnel problem in part too...but it's a shit storm of issues that are very hard to solve, and certainly not done by eyeballing each other and telling each other to lift.

 

[Perth Red]

The idea that the Warriors have a whole country of talent to pick from is a massive fallacy.

For a start, 98/99% of decent football talent in our country plays rugby union. The competitions are better, the coaching is better, the progression to professional ranks is better, there's more opportunities, on and on and on.

Also, other sides in the NRL have scouts with passports. Obviously they haven't been in our country too much because of COVID, but they have contacts. Look how many young NZers are picked up to go as teenagers to Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane, wherever.

Furthermore, it's not really a club that represents 5 million. Their base is Auckland - when COVID isn't around, the rest of the country might get one game (Chch, Wellington etc) and others a pre-season game. People south of the Bombays are, by and large, not engaged with the Warriors as they don't see them.

And lastly, it's hard to build attendance and a following when the last time you played at your home ground was August 30, 2019.

No doubt there are massive issues with our club, but us as fans know it is a deep seated issue that isn't going to be cured by having a 'good hard look at ourselves'. I know from the outside it may seem that way, but what we are experiencing is not a culture problem. It's a development problem, a geographic problem, a personnel problem in part too...but it's a shit storm of issues that are very hard to solve, and certainly not done by eyeballing each other and telling each other to lift.

Thats one of the hard looks they need, why is so much kiwi talent being snapped up by Australian clubs? I know a lot of kids come over with families in their early teens so thats a bit different and its kind of a catch 22, Warriors are sht so why would I want to go play for them instead of Warriors are awesome and I want to play for my home countries team. Reality is they should still be the number 1 choice for the many thousands of kids who play RL in NZ. The fact they arent is either poor scouting or lack of appeal.

Also whilst they may not play many games around NZ they do seem to appeal to most of the countries RL fans. I know Ive met a tonne of Kiwis over here in perth from all over the two islands who go to Warriors games when they play here and have Warriors merch.

Yes incredibly hard when not been home for 2 years and thats why its not a bad time for a reboot when normality returns. They've done well to survive covid and stay in the comp and at least be a bit competitive. I think most RL fans want to see a successful Warriors club.

 

[JJ]

Warriors need a bit of a reboot tbh. Hopefully when they can get back to being an Auckland club they can have a good hard look at themselves and identify why, despite having a whole country of talent to pick from, they still cant put out a consistent playoff team and cant build a membership base and attendance that befits a club that represents 5 million people.

Deja vu all over again as Yogi said

 

[Campion]

This doesn't forward the debate at all but can they just be the Auckland Warriors rather than the NZ Warriors!? I'd still support them even tho I'm in Rotorua.

 

[Penrose Warrior]

Thats one of the hard looks they need, why is so much kiwi talent being snapped up by Australian clubs? I know a lot of kids come over with families in their early teens so thats a bit different and its kind of a catch 22, Warriors are sht so why would I want to go play for them instead of Warriors are awesome and I want to play for my home countries team. Reality is they should still be the number 1 choice for the many thousands of kids who play RL in NZ. The fact they arent is either poor scouting or lack of appeal.

Also whilst they may not play many games around NZ they do seem to appeal to most of the countries RL fans. I know Ive met a tonne of Kiwis over here in perth from all over the two islands who go to Warriors games when they play here and have Warriors merch.

Yes incredibly hard when not been home for 2 years and thats why its not a bad time for a reboot when normality returns. They've done well to survive covid and stay in the comp and at least be a bit competitive. I think most RL fans want to see a successful Warriors club.

Why is so much being snapped up by Australian clubs? Because we can only contract so many. We can't hoard all the talent in a shed out the back of Mt Smart #2 to keep it away from prying eyes. And even the ones we do get hold of, we aren't developing because our whole system is not a jot on Melbourne's, the Roosters, etc. Plus it's not attractive to sign for us. We're not winning, and moving to Australia - often away from South Auckland where things are tough for Kiwi families - is an enticing one.

There are a lot of people better placed to judge than me, but it feels like the system from the minute a 5 year old (potentially) runs onto a rugby league field is busted. Sydney juniors build talent by being coached by good coaches, playing against quality talent and having a vision of what they could be - NRL players, who they get to see every week. None of those are really the case for us. How many Kiwi head coaches in the NRL? None. How many in Super League? Is that none too? International league? There's a massive issue. Our coaching talent isn't a scratch on what's over the ditch. The secondary school comp is basically non-existent. Club league is fading badly. These aren't Warriors issues but they are having a massively detrimental effect on us.

Again, others will know better than me but the golden days of 2006-2011, we hit a perfect storm of signing the right superstars (Price, Wiki, Tate etc) we had a top-tier coach, the Vulcans were a decent feeder system playing in the NSW Cup, the Bartercard Cup club comp wasn't bad, secondary school league hadn't been shot down in flames by the rise of 1st XV rugby (the All Blacks were also not winning at this stage either) and the public loved the Warriors. Plus it felt like not that long ago since 2002-03 when we were strong as well.

We had a bit of a sniff with Gould and O'Sullivan on our books, but now both are gone. Players won't want to come to Auckland unless they're on massive overs for their ability, and as we know the reputation (sort of rightly now) is that coming here is a detrimental career move for players and coaches.

We keep hoping but it feels to me like we are years and years away from a truly competitive side, and even then I can't see how we're going to achieve that. We'd need a truly brilliant administrative mind who is dedicated to achieving that, and that ain't Cameron George or Mark Robinson, nor is it Nathan Brown, and as good as Greg Peters' reputation is (NZRL CEO) it might not be him, either.

 

[The Rosco]

But you have a premiership…

Yes mate . . . God gave us blokes 1 thing to hold on to when we're lonely.
I got lucky in '05 and now have 2.

 

[Blair]

...the golden days of 2006-2011, we hit a perfect storm of signing the right superstars (Price, Wiki, Tate etc)...

Along with the right little Aussie battlers (Henderson, Gatis, Witt etc).

 

[Penrose Warrior]

Along with the right little Aussie battlers (Henderson, Gatis, Witt etc).

Absolutely. They worked well in that side, but they wouldn't now is the only thing.

 

[Philip_Smith007]

This doesn't forward the debate at all but can they just be the Auckland Warriors rather than the NZ Warriors!? I'd still support them even tho I'm in Rotorua.

It was a marketing move in the first place. If NZ ever gets a second team they may go back to Auckland Warriors.

 

[Philip_Smith007]

Why is so much being snapped up by Australian clubs? Because we can only contract so many. We can't hoard all the talent in a shed out the back of Mt Smart #2 to keep it away from prying eyes. And even the ones we do get hold of, we aren't developing because our whole system is not a jot on Melbourne's, the Roosters, etc. Plus it's not attractive to sign for us. We're not winning, and moving to Australia - often away from South Auckland where things are tough for Kiwi families - is an enticing one.

There are a lot of people better placed to judge than me, but it feels like the system from the minute a 5 year old (potentially) runs onto a rugby league field is busted. Sydney juniors build talent by being coached by good coaches, playing against quality talent and having a vision of what they could be - NRL players, who they get to see every week. None of those are really the case for us. How many Kiwi head coaches in the NRL? None. How many in Super League? Is that none too? International league? There's a massive issue. Our coaching talent isn't a scratch on what's over the ditch. The secondary school comp is basically non-existent. Club league is fading badly. These aren't Warriors issues but they are having a massively detrimental effect on us.

Again, others will know better than me but the golden days of 2006-2011, we hit a perfect storm of signing the right superstars (Price, Wiki, Tate etc) we had a top-tier coach, the Vulcans were a decent feeder system playing in the NSW Cup, the Bartercard Cup club comp wasn't bad, secondary school league hadn't been shot down in flames by the rise of 1st XV rugby (the All Blacks were also not winning at this stage either) and the public loved the Warriors. Plus it felt like not that long ago since 2002-03 when we were strong as well.

We had a bit of a sniff with Gould and O'Sullivan on our books, but now both are gone. Players won't want to come to Auckland unless they're on massive overs for their ability, and as we know the reputation (sort of rightly now) is that coming here is a detrimental career move for players and coaches.

We keep hoping but it feels to me like we are years and years away from a truly competitive side, and even then I can't see how we're going to achieve that. We'd need a truly brilliant administrative mind who is dedicated to achieving that, and that ain't Cameron George or Mark Robinson, nor is it Nathan Brown, and as good as Greg Peters' reputation is (NZRL CEO) it might not be him, either.

So many truth's here and so many problems to fix.
Winning fixes some of those problems.
Pity we lost Gould for the development pathways. Bloody Covid!

 

[Matua]

Again, others will know better than me but the golden days of 2006-2011, we hit a perfect storm of signing the right superstars (Price, Wiki, Tate etc) we had a top-tier coach, the Vulcans were a decent feeder system playing in the NSW Cup, the Bartercard Cup club comp wasn't bad, secondary school league hadn't been shot down in flames by the rise of 1st XV rugby (the All Blacks were also not winning at this stage either) and the public loved the Warriors. Plus it felt like not that long ago since 2002-03 when we were strong as well.

The All Blacks were winning everything at that stage, bar the 2007 RWC.

I think the 2002-2003 era was more popular with the wider public, and better aligns with the ABs not winning as much.

 

[JJ]

Along with the right little Aussie battlers (Henderson, Gatis, Witt etc).

We’ve often done well with low profile Aussies, Carlow, Death, Mears, Luck, Marsh etc etc… good solid pros…

 

[Penrose Warrior]

The All Blacks were winning everything at that stage, bar the 2007 RWC.

I think the 2002-2003 era was more popular with the wider public, and better aligns with the ABs not winning as much.

That was my main point - the RWC was all we cared about (or mostly what the public cared about). The fall out from 2007 was massive, and that was exactly the year the Warriors began their upswing.

 

[Fufu Andronez]

He's got a 3 year contract so I'd let him see that out. Its not like we'd be flush with cash to pay out ANOTHER coach anyway. Let him get the team back to NZ, do what he does best RE culling the roster and then give the new coach a fresh start in 2024.

Just don't go throwing around contract extensions like the Tigers did with Madge, let him actually earn it.

 

[Meth]

The work that Gould was hired to do was so crucial. It's such a shame that he couldn't see it through

 

[Matua]

That was my main point - the RWC was all we cared about (or mostly what the public cared about). The fall out from 2007 was massive, and that was exactly the year the Warriors began their upswing.

I'm not sure that tracks, the 2008 - 2011 was a popular and successful time for the ABs. In the early 2000s era when I'd go to games it would be a bunch of rugby first fans, but in the Cleary era I only went to games with league fans. I'm not saying it wasn't a good era for the Warriors, but I don't think it had the same popular support the early 2000s did.

We’ve often done well with low profile Aussies, Carlow, Death, Mears, Luck, Marsh etc etc… good solid pros…

Now the Warriors are trying to make a whole team of Aussies and they're as crap as ever.

 

[Matua]

The work that Gould was hired to do was so crucial. It's such a shame that he couldn't see it through

I would have liked to have seen this play out without Covid, because it never actually seemed real to me. Probably that's on me for not keeping up with the press etc, but I don't think I know what his actual role was, some sort of talent spotting is in my head, but I may be 100% wrong.

 

[Meth]

I would have liked to have seen this play out without Covid, because it never actually seemed real to me. Probably that's on me for not keeping up with the press etc, but I don't think I know what his actual role was, some sort of talent spotting is in my head, but I may be 100% wrong.

My understanding is that he was recruited to set up pathways similar to what he did with Penrith. A fantastic idea that could have worked out fantastically well for us if not for COVID, I reckon

 

[JJ]

Now the Warriors are trying to make a whole team of Aussies and they're as crap as ever.

Sorry - double post