Salary Cap Effectiveness

[myrrh ken]

A salary cap is not immune from stupidity.

No one forced the Wests Tigers or Ivan Cleary to sign Mbye, Reynolds, Packer and Matulino to deals for close to a combined 3m dollars.

Michael Maguire deserves the keys to the city for taking a team with that kind of cap clusterf**k to within one game of the finals.

And no one forced the Titans to sign Ash Taylor, Shannon Boyd, Peats, Peachey, Leilani Latu and Bryce Cartwright to big deals, either. Seriously how's that for cap management?

Every team that is, or has recently been miserable has a combination of four characteristics in common - shocking management, poor coaching, a bad club culture, and woeful cap management.

A club like Penrith have threatened to get it all right recently, only for a bad culture to continually bite them on the ass.

The Roosters got it awfully wrong on a few of those counts post Fittler and it resulted in over half a decade of misery. Since then we struck gold in Trent Robinson who in time may well be remembered as the greatest coach in the history of the game. That was a punt from Uncle Nick that will shape an entire era of success for the club.

And then two years later after a shocking season, Russell Crowe delivered us the NRLs next great playmaker on a plate. So I guess sometimes it's also just as important to be lucky as it is smart.

But seriously I could analayse every single NRL club to highlight just how utterly stupid in the extreme is the notion that "we have a salary cap, therefore success should be spread evenly."

But I can't be bothered because the usual suspects will still cry "... but but, Sombrero" regardless.

The player market goes both ways. Clubs that aren't very attractive (like Titans, Newy) have to pay overs for players that are available to come to them.

Its pretty easy to attract and retain a player at Bondi.

 

[forby]

Adamkungl - it has been admitted that the NRL can do nothing to prevent wealthy individuals topping up players salaries by losing wagers on golf and the like. That is one of the difficulties policing salary caps and why certain clubs can sign players on unders. It is not just bad management. The Roosters are fortunate but not alone with this.
The Roosters would be no different to other clubs when it comes to paying freight on players they release early. Some years are worse than others.

 

[super_coach]

How would that situation be any different if there was no salary cap?

Cap or not, weaker sides always have to pay overs for players.

Agreed...but there has to be another more effective system. I have always advocated for a point system where a player is awarded points for his ability rather than what he is paid. But like any system that would be hard to formulate

 

[Springs09]

Between 1946 and 1971 there was 4 different premieres.
In the last 9 years we have had 7. Pretty simple something is working. Maybe we go back to the years when Souths and saints had whole international players in reserve grade cause they were that good a side.

If Roosters are fully fit they have either Ryan Hall or Brett Morris in reserve grade. Both are internationals.

Before the salary cap in 1981-89 8 different teams made the GF and there were 7 different minor premiers. From 2011 to now, 9 different teams have made the GF and only 3 different minor premiers.

Premierships are one thing, competitiveness across the whole comp is another. If the salary cap was introduced to 'even the playing field', then you have to question is it working when there's not that much difference in teams that made the GF and 4 less minor premiers in this decade than in the 80s, the decade before the cap was brought in.

On a side note, the cap has more than doubled since 2011.

 

[Babyface O'reilly]

The player market goes both ways. Clubs that aren't very attractive (like Titans, Newy) have to pay overs for players that are available to come to them.

Its pretty easy to attract and retain a player at Bondi.

Could argue the Bondi location was just as big a handicap as it was a magnet for bringing players over. Let’s say it brought a certain level of behaviour that wasn’t conducive to building a professionally run football club. We had some seriously lean years because of it

 

[adamkungl]

If Roosters are fully fit they have either Ryan Hall or Brett Morris in reserve grade. Both are internationals.

Both are in their 30s and most people would claim that pommy backs can't play anyway.
There's no way either or on more than modest cash.

Wests Tigers have internationals in reserve grade!

 

[Babyface O'reilly]

If Roosters are fully fit they have either Ryan Hall or Brett Morris in reserve grade. Both are internationals.

Before the salary cap in 1981-89 8 different teams made the GF and there were 7 different minor premiers. From 2011 to now, 9 different teams have made the GF and only 3 different minor premiers.

Premierships are one thing, competitiveness across the whole comp is another. If the salary cap was introduced to 'even the playing field', then you have to question is it working when there's not that much difference in teams that made the GF and 4 less minor premiers in this decade than in the 80s, the decade before the cap was brought in.

On a side note, the cap has more than doubled since 2011.

One had a knee reconstruction and no NRL experience and the other is 74 years old in league years. They would’ve been affordable for any club to buy, would they not?

 

[carcharias]

Roosters fans trying to talk their roster down is funny.

 

[Springs09]

Both are in their 30s and most people would claim that pommy backs can't play anyway.
There's no way either or on more than modest cash.

Wests Tigers have internationals in reserve grade!

Not disputing that just saying that the notion of 'who wants to go back to when St George had internationals in reserve grade' is silly because Roosters literally have an international as a back-up winger.

Tigers signed those internationals as starting props though, they didn't sign 2 international wingers when they already had another international winger in Tupou in the side. Same as how Melbourne have 2 decorated back-up hookers. I'm not saying anyone is cheating the cap, I'm asking whether it's made that much of a difference and if it's working as intended. Last decade I thought it was, this decade probably not.

 

[TheDMC]

But you have some clubs who are terrible at choosing their top 5 (see: Adam Blair, Ben Hunt) and other clubs who are paying 500k to players in reserve grade (Tigers), or worse, other clubs (Panthers).

Unfortunately it is a bit of a chicken and egg situation, for us. We don't get the 'choice' of quality 800k players to come to the warriors - partly geography and partly crappily managed club, meaning we pay way overs for average players who do nothing to deliver the results needed to become a more enticing option. I think the only way out for the warriors is to pay whatever it takes to get a top 3 coach.

 

[Springs09]

One had a knee reconstruction and no NRL experience and the other is 74 years old in league years. They would’ve been affordable for any club to buy, would they not?

I'm not saying they wouldn't have I was answering the guy who said no one wants to go back to when St George had internationals in reserve grade, Roosters literally have that right now.

 

[adamkungl]

Not disputing that just saying that the notion of 'who wants to go back to when St George had internationals in reserve grade' is silly because Roosters literally have an international as a back-up winger.

Tigers signed those internationals as starting props though, they didn't sign 2 international wingers when they already had another international winger in Tupou in the side. Same as how Melbourne have 2 decorated back-up hookers. I'm not saying anyone is cheating the cap, I'm asking whether it's made that much of a difference and if it's working as intended. Last decade I thought it was, this decade probably not.

And again, bolded is the key.
The reason some clubs find it difficult to compete. They signed some of these blokes not only on good money but on 5 year deals!
There's no systematic way to force clubs to make better decisions.

 

[Babyface O'reilly]

If geography is a genuine handicap for clubs then why bother having a national comp? Let’s go back to a Sydney competition but stick to the beaches cos you know, everywhere else is undesirable. As Keating said, “if you’re not living in Sydney, you’re camping out.”

 

[ram raid]

Shouldn't we at least wait until the Roosters win 2 in a row before we start complaining about the cap?

I'd like to be able to blame the salary cap but I'm far too intelligent to let my emotions interfere with the facts. No team has won two GFs in a row since 1875. And the Broncos suck.

If the Roosters win 4 in a row I will question the effectiveness of the cap.

If it's any solace, Roosters fans are, by any objective measure, deplorable twats.

 

[siv]

the salary cap was introduced to 'even the playing field', then you have to question is it working

Agree with this statement

The extra cash from.the TV deal has caused a big jump in the cap

From $7 mil to $9 mil in one season

And it wasn't that long ago it was $4 mil

If you were a $400k player under a $4 mil cap you would be pretty happy to see your wage go up to $800k in a few years under a $9 mil cap

Very little pressure to pack up and move house or change clubs

 

[jack coburn]

What do you define as an international. a current player or a past player.
If any of those we can go through plenty of clubs that have internationals.
Do you count a Tongan, Samoan and NZ players the same as Australian and England.
Its easy to pick and choose to suit any argument but as has been pointed out souths and easts have only a few from their 2013/2014 winning sides yet they are both up there every year. seems to me they let players go a year early rather than a year late.
To be fair if I was offered 400k to play at the titans or 300k to play at souths I would head to souths know I may get other benefits like rep payments and 3rd party deals.
Believe it or not its not all about money for certain players.

 

[GongPanther]

The salary cap is fine.

The TPAs are the problem and its no longer an even playing field.

And as Phil Gould keeps on reminding us, we have to compete for the corporate dollar in Sydney, were the place is saturated with others sports year round.

 

[Captain Apollo]

Shouldn't we at least wait until the Roosters win 2 in a row before we start complaining about the cap?

I'd like to be able to blame the salary cap but I'm far too intelligent to let my emotions interfere with the facts. No team has won two GFs in a row since 1875. And the Broncos suck.

If the Roosters win 4 in a row I will question the effectiveness of the cap.

If it's any solace, Roosters fans are, by any objective measure, deplorable twats.

1875?! If you meant 1975 you might be close, but the last time was 1992-93 with the Brisbane Broncos (and prior to that it was the 1981-82-83 Parramatta Eels).

 

[Perth Red]

Storm get basically 25% extra, broncos 20% and the rest 5% or next to nothing.

All of this is allegedly outside club involvement. The $600k marquee allowance is the biggie as this can come directly from club backers.

 

[Valheru]

Adamkungl - it has been admitted that the NRL can do nothing to prevent wealthy individuals topping up players salaries by losing wagers on golf and the like. That is one of the difficulties policing salary caps and why certain clubs can sign players on unders. It is not just bad management. The Roosters are fortunate but not alone with this.
The Roosters would be no different to other clubs when it comes to paying freight on players they release early. Some years are worse than others.

I can't remember us ever releasing a player early and paying part of their salary elsewhere.